BTW, the only paper I buy is failed fiat currencies for my collection. The cheaper, and more failed the better.
Like it or not, you buy US dollars every time you trade something, such as your labor, for them.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Your purchasing power, denominated in dollars, continues to cry out "don't let them do it, save me" as the debt and unfunded liability freight train continues to gather momentum.
There is some question about whether that light at the end of the tunnel is really another freight train, but who really knows? Who do you trust the most, the government & banking system or yourself?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
jmski...................You are correct. I thought DeGaulle got his gold back in the late 60's
"The country effectively abandoned the gold standard in 1933, and completely severed the link between the dollar and gold, that's was in effect since the 1944 Bretton Woods Conference, in 1971."
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Next step; severe the link between futures and physical.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
So, now it's clear. One of us thinks COMEX holds the price down and the other thinks COMEX holds the price up.
BTW, isn't holding the price up also manipulation?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@derryb said:
So, now it's clear. One of us thinks COMEX holds the price down and the other thinks COMEX holds the price up.
BTW, isn't holding the price up also manipulation?
That not what I think.. But what would happen if you removed a demand component? Of course you think price would go up....you've proven your understanding of economics many times on this board.
Imagine slowly saving over decades to create your nest egg. You get to the point where you have maybe $150,000 saved up and you finally look around and exhale. "At least I have this much now. House is paid for. Kids are through school. I'll retire in a few years, draw just enough interest (maybe $500 or $600 a month) to pay my power and water bills and buy groceries".
And then inflation kicks in. That $500 a month soars to $1000 a month. You'll be living large! And then it soars to $2000 a month. You've got it MADE!
And then you realize that the groceries now cost 3x what they did. But you're still ok.
And then those groceries cost 5x. And then 10x. And now 15x as much as they did. And a week passes and it's 20X.
And a loaf of bread that was $1 is now $30. And now $50. And now $100. And now $1000. Tomorrow, maybe $2000. Next week? Next month?
And your life's savings, all the years of scrimping and doing without so that you could take care of yourself in retirement, won't even feed you until the end of the year. And then?
That literally just happened to 32 million Venezuelans. Poof. They have nothing. 1,000,000% inflation for 2018.
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last. --Severian the Lame
@Weiss said:
Imagine slowly saving over decades to create your nest egg. You get to the point where you have maybe $150,000 saved up and you finally look around and exhale. "At least I have this much now. House is paid for. Kids are through school. I'll retire in a few years, draw just enough interest (maybe $500 or $600 a month) to pay my power and water bills and buy groceries".
And then inflation kicks in. That $500 a month soars to $1000 a month. You'll be living large! And then it soars to $2000 a month. You've got it MADE!
And then you realize that the groceries now cost 3x what they did. But you're still ok.
And then those groceries cost 5x. And then 10x. And now 15x as much as they did. And a week passes and it's 20X.
And a loaf of bread that was $1 is now $30. And now $50. And now $100. And now $1000. Tomorrow, maybe $2000. Next week? Next month?
And your life's savings, all the years of scrimping and doing without so that you could take care of yourself in retirement, won't even feed you until the end of the year. And then?
That literally just happened to 32 million Venezuelans. Poof. They have nothing. 1,000,000% inflation for 2018.
And that stock you bought at 5 is now 500.
Oh the humanity.
Hyperinflation is a our back door...just across a 4 hour plane ride away. It's coming to a town near you. Run run run. Be afraid. Arghhh!!!!
How’s that 100:1 stock value increase vs the 1,000,000:1 cash devaluation math work for you coho? I took a lot of imaginary math at g.tech and that’s still a pile of shit however you like to think it isn’t.
Something with business value growth is a sign of hyperinflation?
Not my point. An asset is an asset. In Venezuela, houses went up, stocks went up, gold went up, used cars went up, ect.
but wages did not.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Stocks as an asset can go down or fail to keep up with inflation
The market has no inflation adjusting mechanism.
Moving a limit order up with inflation doesn't mean it sells. It's more complicated than that. Crappy stocks of crappy companies on the verge are not going to get bids. Stocks with staying power will. Inflation has its part only in determining which will be on the verge and which are more protected. Then it is now playing a part as those looking to protect monetary value buy in to those with assets that hedge inflation, like those with real foreign assets.
Those same stocks will decline as those needing money sell.
Inflation plays no part in price declines due to selling.
There is no market mechanism making stocks only rise in the face of inflation.
And this is the crux of the problem will all price inflation, even the FEDs target of 2% inflation. Unless wages can keep up, inflation destroys one's standard of living. No big deal if you can still feed your family 30 chickens a month, but as the number of chickens declines (while the mouths you feed does not) so does your willingness to accept price inflation.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
The best part about the article for me was reading about how precious metals were still functioning perfectly, perhaps swapping for dying currency on a daily or weekly basis, but the store of value remained intact.
If you’re looking to get rich on PMs I wish you well on your short term gamble. I consider them a snapshot of wealth in time, and I’m betting that I’m right.
...but I’m not ALL in, diversification is key...but a few ounces ain’t gonna cut it if the SHTF.
@derryb said:
So, now it's clear. One of us thinks COMEX holds the price down and the other thinks COMEX holds the price up.
BTW, isn't holding the price up also manipulation?
That not what I think.. But what would happen if you removed a demand component? Of course you think price would go up....you've proven your understanding of economics many times on this board.
You are finally realizing that the paper stuff manipulates the price of the real stuff. Baby steps.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@derryb said:
So, now it's clear. One of us thinks COMEX holds the price down and the other thinks COMEX holds the price up.
BTW, isn't holding the price up also manipulation?
That not what I think.. But what would happen if you removed a demand component? Of course you think price would go up....you've proven your understanding of economics many times on this board.
You are finally realizing that the paper stuff manipulates the price of the real stuff. Baby steps.
you guys all make the same mistake with gold backing of paper money. It won't back the number of dollars out there now, 99% of them will disappear . If you have a million in the bank then all of a sudden you just wont anymore.
The easiest dollars to destroy will be the E-dollars . Your stocks dollars your 401k dollars the value of your house etc.
Our ancestors lived short lives of stress and turmoil without long term security , we will go back to that .
Its worth pointing out that life is not a game that anyone actually wins at sit back and enjoy the ride baby
we here in the US are spoiled , we have been coasting on a high for decades so expect a return to the mean at some point, its a given.
@derryb said:
So, now it's clear. One of us thinks COMEX holds the price down and the other thinks COMEX holds the price up.
BTW, isn't holding the price up also manipulation?
That not what I think.. But what would happen if you removed a demand component? Of course you think price would go up....you've proven your understanding of economics many times on this board.
You are finally realizing that the paper stuff manipulates the price of the real stuff. Baby steps.
Gawd some folks just love that word. Admittedly, it is a very useful word..
Yesterday I manipulated my way through traffic, got to work and they manipulated me into doing tasks, then I went to a place and manipulated a waiter into bringing me food, and then i manipulated a knife and fork a then manipulated a steak to be in my belly.
Price manipulation in most cases is illegal. Unless you're running red lights to manipulate through traffic you should have no worry. You should manipulate your brain to comprehend the difference.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@Baley said:
The idea that precious metals prices might be illegally manipulated makes me want to own less of them, not more.
then you should liquidate
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
No, i have the right amount for me, both in absolute terms and as a % of assets. I said "less" not "none", but it's understandable that someone of fixated viewpoint might not comprehend the distinction.
That's a good Article. 1.5 million people have left V. since 2014, probably because they have portable wealth and said F this! Let's bail. If USA goes south, here i come Canada or Australia or Nz.
@Baley said:
That's a good Article. 1.5 million people have left V. since 2014, probably because they have portable wealth and said F this! Let's bail. If USA goes south, here i come Canada or Australia or Nz.
Maybe try Russia or Iran. I hear they are scheming to supplant the petro-dollar. Sounds promising. Lol
Costa Rica is tops on my/our bounce from the states list. Wifey lived there for 6 months doing a student exchange thing back in the day, said she'd go live there in a NY minute.
@Baley said:
That's a good Article. 1.5 million people have left V. since 2014, probably because they have portable wealth and said F this! Let's bail. If USA goes south, here i come Canada or Australia or Nz.
Est pop of 32.5 mil, now down to 31 mil I suppose. That's 4.6% of the population.
@MsMorrisine said:
I can't move anywhere I can't drive with my car.
Perhaps I can convince someone in costa rica to come get me for a couple of gold rings.
You can drive your car all the way down to CR no prob. We were there in April and saw a ton of US vehicle tags, bikes, trucks, cars, everything.
I'd take at least 2 of our vehicles down there on a drive - truck and tow the jeep - and probably not have any problems other than trying to journal the drive in pics and writing.
@derryb said:
And while I consider myself a greedy capitalist, let us not forget that social security, private pensions, national defense and group health insurance are basically American socialist programs. Some things do work best with group participation.
Everything you listed is the worst. Social security is bankrupt morally, let me plan my own retirement with my own private property I earned. Also people rely on social security and thus it creates a moral hazard for people to not worry about their own future. I plan my future as if there will be no money there for me.
National defense is more like international offense. They maintain a steady interventionist strategy that I disagree with. The cost of defense is a fraction of the cost of attacking.
It is easy to argue that group health insurance as it stands in the USA drastically increases the costs of medical care. The old ways of pooling policies with your company or church group work because these are community members or gainfully employed. When you create a single payer system it doesn't collect payments from everyone who takes, it creates moral hazard, and it is inefficient.
These are socialist programs. Bloated, inefficient, dangerous.
Comments
Interesting read.
My YouTube Channel
Like it or not, you buy US dollars every time you trade something, such as your labor, for them.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Your purchasing power, denominated in dollars, continues to cry out "don't let them do it, save me" as the debt and unfunded liability freight train continues to gather momentum.
There is some question about whether that light at the end of the tunnel is really another freight train, but who really knows? Who do you trust the most, the government & banking system or yourself?
I knew it would happen.
jmski...................You are correct. I thought DeGaulle got his gold back in the late 60's
"The country effectively abandoned the gold standard in 1933, and completely severed the link between the dollar and gold, that's was in effect since the 1944 Bretton Woods Conference, in 1971."
Next step; severe the link between futures and physical.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
You wanna kill metals forever?
Where do you think the price would be if all you had buying were the little J6P like us on this board buying 5oz at a time?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
So, now it's clear. One of us thinks COMEX holds the price down and the other thinks COMEX holds the price up.
BTW, isn't holding the price up also manipulation?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
That not what I think.. But what would happen if you removed a demand component? Of course you think price would go up....you've proven your understanding of economics many times on this board.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Imagine slowly saving over decades to create your nest egg. You get to the point where you have maybe $150,000 saved up and you finally look around and exhale. "At least I have this much now. House is paid for. Kids are through school. I'll retire in a few years, draw just enough interest (maybe $500 or $600 a month) to pay my power and water bills and buy groceries".
And then inflation kicks in. That $500 a month soars to $1000 a month. You'll be living large! And then it soars to $2000 a month. You've got it MADE!
And then you realize that the groceries now cost 3x what they did. But you're still ok.
And then those groceries cost 5x. And then 10x. And now 15x as much as they did. And a week passes and it's 20X.
And a loaf of bread that was $1 is now $30. And now $50. And now $100. And now $1000. Tomorrow, maybe $2000. Next week? Next month?
And your life's savings, all the years of scrimping and doing without so that you could take care of yourself in retirement, won't even feed you until the end of the year. And then?
That literally just happened to 32 million Venezuelans. Poof. They have nothing. 1,000,000% inflation for 2018.
--Severian the Lame
Venezuela would still have farmers and factories refusing to produce even if paid in gold.
It is the price fixing demon.
Perhaps food and shelter should be free like air.
And that stock you bought at 5 is now 500.
Oh the humanity.
Hyperinflation is a our back door...just across a 4 hour plane ride away. It's coming to a town near you. Run run run. Be afraid. Arghhh!!!!
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
5 to 500 on a stock ?
Something with business value growth is a sign of hyperinflation?
Hyperinflation
What will the first sign in the USA be?
I'm not putting food price fixing on the list.
How’s that 100:1 stock value increase vs the 1,000,000:1 cash devaluation math work for you coho? I took a lot of imaginary math at g.tech and that’s still a pile of shit however you like to think it isn’t.
Just look at the Venezuela stock market. It's up 73000%+ over the last year.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Not my point. An asset is an asset. In Venezuela, houses went up, stocks went up, gold went up, used cars went up, ect.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Yeah, the higher inflation inflates the currency that the stock market is priced in is where EVERYONE gets rich!!
DJIA 1,000,000,000!!! Everything is awesome!!
Their market is up because those with money are using it to hedge inflation
Stocks are being bid up as money is parked there.
Used cars cost more so the owner can get some semblance of previous value out of it.
The understanding of inflation will take one far.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
but wages did not.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
You sure about that?
https://tradingeconomics.com/venezuela/minimum-wages
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Stocks as an asset can go down or fail to keep up with inflation
The market has no inflation adjusting mechanism.
Moving a limit order up with inflation doesn't mean it sells. It's more complicated than that. Crappy stocks of crappy companies on the verge are not going to get bids. Stocks with staying power will. Inflation has its part only in determining which will be on the verge and which are more protected. Then it is now playing a part as those looking to protect monetary value buy in to those with assets that hedge inflation, like those with real foreign assets.
Those same stocks will decline as those needing money sell.
Inflation plays no part in price declines due to selling.
There is no market mechanism making stocks only rise in the face of inflation.
>
There certainly can be.
Your comment could apply to gold as well....did gold keep up with inflation during the 1980s and 1990s?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
On the run to 1900, it exceeded inflation
Necessities like food will.
Carpeting? Baseballs? Jet skis? Not so much.
Good for gold that it is valued in Venezuela. Rope chains? Not so much. Gold rope chains, much.
I wouldn't call a recently increased minimum wage to 1 million bolivars a month "going up" when the rate of inflation has driven the price of a chicken to 14 million bolivars. If a family of fourteen workers gets to share a chicken each month with no money left over for anything else I would say we have a serious case of wages not keeping up with inflation.
And this is the crux of the problem will all price inflation, even the FEDs target of 2% inflation. Unless wages can keep up, inflation destroys one's standard of living. No big deal if you can still feed your family 30 chickens a month, but as the number of chickens declines (while the mouths you feed does not) so does your willingness to accept price inflation.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
The best part about the article for me was reading about how precious metals were still functioning perfectly, perhaps swapping for dying currency on a daily or weekly basis, but the store of value remained intact.
If you’re looking to get rich on PMs I wish you well on your short term gamble. I consider them a snapshot of wealth in time, and I’m betting that I’m right.
...but I’m not ALL in, diversification is key...but a few ounces ain’t gonna cut it if the SHTF.
You are finally realizing that the paper stuff manipulates the price of the real stuff. Baby steps.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
The taxing authorities will love it.
I knew it would happen.
Not manipulation---just markets.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Wages have been rising all along--this wasnt a 1x bump.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
**rate of inflation has driven the price of a chicken to 14 million bolivars**
Insurance.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
you guys all make the same mistake with gold backing of paper money. It won't back the number of dollars out there now, 99% of them will disappear . If you have a million in the bank then all of a sudden you just wont anymore.
The easiest dollars to destroy will be the E-dollars . Your stocks dollars your 401k dollars the value of your house etc.
Our ancestors lived short lives of stress and turmoil without long term security , we will go back to that .
Its worth pointing out that life is not a game that anyone actually wins at
sit back and enjoy the ride baby 
we here in the US are spoiled , we have been coasting on a high for decades so expect a return to the mean at some point, its a given.
Gawd some folks just love that word. Admittedly, it is a very useful word..
Yesterday I manipulated my way through traffic, got to work and they manipulated me into doing tasks, then I went to a place and manipulated a waiter into bringing me food, and then i manipulated a knife and fork a then manipulated a steak to be in my belly.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Price manipulation in most cases is illegal. Unless you're running red lights to manipulate through traffic you should have no worry. You should manipulate your brain to comprehend the difference.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
The idea that precious metals prices might be illegally manipulated makes me want to own less of them, not more.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
then you should liquidate
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
No, i have the right amount for me, both in absolute terms and as a % of assets. I said "less" not "none", but it's understandable that someone of fixated viewpoint might not comprehend the distinction.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
The one who always cries manipulation is himself the most manipulated.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Truth isn't truth.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Manipulation can feel good, too, you know.
Venezuela recently devalued their currency and pegged it to their petro-crypto-currency
Was this discussed here?
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/20/venezuela-crisis-maduro-currency-devaluation-is-a-scam-analysts-say.html
That's a good Article. 1.5 million people have left V. since 2014, probably because they have portable wealth and said F this! Let's bail. If USA goes south, here i come Canada or Australia or Nz.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Maybe try Russia or Iran. I hear they are scheming to supplant the petro-dollar. Sounds promising. Lol
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Costa Rica is tops on my/our bounce from the states list. Wifey lived there for 6 months doing a student exchange thing back in the day, said she'd go live there in a NY minute.
I can't move anywhere I can't drive with my car.
Perhaps I can convince someone in costa rica to come get me for a couple of gold rings.
Est pop of 32.5 mil, now down to 31 mil I suppose. That's 4.6% of the population.
You can drive your car all the way down to CR no prob. We were there in April and saw a ton of US vehicle tags, bikes, trucks, cars, everything.
I'd take at least 2 of our vehicles down there on a drive - truck and tow the jeep - and probably not have any problems other than trying to journal the drive in pics and writing.
Nothing would drive me away from the greatest country ever created. Long live the USA!!!
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
@derryb said:
And while I consider myself a greedy capitalist, let us not forget that social security, private pensions, national defense and group health insurance are basically American socialist programs. Some things do work best with group participation.
Everything you listed is the worst. Social security is bankrupt morally, let me plan my own retirement with my own private property I earned. Also people rely on social security and thus it creates a moral hazard for people to not worry about their own future. I plan my future as if there will be no money there for me.
Private pensions are going through a major crisis right now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensions_crisis
National defense is more like international offense. They maintain a steady interventionist strategy that I disagree with. The cost of defense is a fraction of the cost of attacking.
It is easy to argue that group health insurance as it stands in the USA drastically increases the costs of medical care. The old ways of pooling policies with your company or church group work because these are community members or gainfully employed. When you create a single payer system it doesn't collect payments from everyone who takes, it creates moral hazard, and it is inefficient.
These are socialist programs. Bloated, inefficient, dangerous.