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Complaints, suggestions and questions for Joe Orlando...

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  • It would be a coup to work out licenses with the US Mint (and foreign mints, too) where PCGS could grade coins inside each mint. It would be ideal to have access to earlier steps in production and packaging where the coins have been processed and handled less. The grading would add a profitable premium for the mints, and the consistent business would mitigate one of the vulnerabilities for CU.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Washingtoniana said:
    It would be a coup to work out licenses with the US Mint (and foreign mints, too) where PCGS could grade coins inside each mint. It would be ideal to have access to earlier steps in production and packaging where the coins have been processed and handled less. The grading would add a profitable premium for the mints, and the consistent business would mitigate one of the vulnerabilities for CU.

    I've always wondered why they didn't do something like this. Who would be the benefactor of the graded coins? PCGS? The mint? Smoeone else?

    theknowitalltroll;
  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,657 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Better customer service. Stop with the snobbish attitude that PCGS is perfect and that the peons and minions will continue to take what they get with gratitude - you aren't APPLE. Act like the underdog to trying to become number one.

    thefinn
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My suggestion is this:

    Mr. Orlando, you are very knowledgeable about Sports Cards and a good businessman. However,I suggest you IMMEDIATELY take an intense crash course in numismatics! The amount of time you'll need to approach the sophistication of many of your customers and posters here will depend on your teachers.

    Hopefully, PCGS will prosper under your guidance. Good Luck in your new position. B)

  • @BAJJERFAN said:

    @Washingtoniana said:
    It would be a coup to work out licenses with the US Mint (and foreign mints, too) where PCGS could grade coins inside each mint. It would be ideal to have access to earlier steps in production and packaging where the coins have been processed and handled less. The grading would add a profitable premium for the mints, and the consistent business would mitigate one of the vulnerabilities for CU.

    I've always wondered why they didn't do something like this. Who would be the benefactor of the graded coins? PCGS? The mint? Smoeone else?

    my thought was that the mint could sell them directly to its customers

  • yKnotyKnot Posts: 108 ✭✭✭
    edited September 22, 2018 10:52AM

    Provide an add-on service where you can receive a short summary/explanation for the assigned grade. Obviously this would be somewhat expensive but nothing worse than sending in coins that you believe are plus for the grade or undergraded and just getting them back with no explanation of why the grader didn't feel it deserved a higher grade. Some summary or feedback from the graders would be nice to have. Could be something as short as "late die state, ticks in the left obverse and breaks in the luster at 9 o'clock limit the grade to 64" or on a higher graded coin something like "above average strike, luster, and minimal contact marks warrant a 66 grade; outstanding eye appeal not seen often for this d/m. " I can see these summaries being added by collectors to their registry sets in the description column.

  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Washingtoniana said:
    It would be a coup to work out licenses with the US Mint (and foreign mints, too) where PCGS could grade coins inside each mint. It would be ideal to have access to earlier steps in production and packaging where the coins have been processed and handled less. The grading would add a profitable premium for the mints, and the consistent business would mitigate one of the vulnerabilities for CU.

    I would suggest a different approach. Something I have been thinking about for a while.

    That the Mint sets aside a number (pick a suitable number - 50? 100? ) of actual first strikes from die pairs. These would be inserted in the supply chain at random with special COA's attesting to actual first strike status. Of course they couldn't use the term "First Strike"....you suggest a term...New Die....Fresh Pressing.....

    The boxes would look the same as all the others. Random customers would receive one.

    This would drive Mint sales
    Improve customer satisfaction
    Solve the actual First Strike question (which actually is only based on the first 30 days of release. You could have a coin struck at the end of life of the die)
    Add sales to TPG's with special labels


  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DollarAfterDollar said:
    Reduce grading fees since coin prices have dropped so severely.
    Clean up your price guide. It's off by 25% more than it's right.
    Population counts are fiction. Create an incentive for returned labels.
    Offer a quarterly special that actually saves me money.
    Delays in committed turn around times due to shows are unacceptable.
    For starters.

    This. But first and foremost hire a COMPETENT variety attributor!

  • philographerphilographer Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Does PCGS / Collectors Universe recycle all the old holders (from crack-outs, re-grades,and re-holders) and the Mylar flips? Seriously. Thank you!

    He who knows he has enough is rich.

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Begin using the 69+ grade. It was nonsensical to ever not use it in the first place.

    Wondercoin.

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cameonut2011... to directly answer your question...

    Everyone pushing for the 100 point scale for starters!

    Wondercoin.

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭

    Did Joe Orlando ever collect coins ?
    If so , what series did he collect ?
    Was he ever a coin dealer ?
    If so , with which company/s ?

  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,956 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2018 6:15AM

    Stop grading currency art. It's ridiculous that ever started.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @STEWARTBLAYNUMIS said:
    David Hall was a seasoned coin collector.
    David Hall was a life time coin dealer and understood very well
    the business of coins , both rare coins and common coins.
    He also understood the mentality of both collectors and most coin dealers.

    Alan Mulally wasn’t a car guy but he sure put Ford back on a solid track.

  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Broadstruck said:

    @Bochiman said:
    I've got the #1 board suggestion for him......

    Make ME a mod with banning privileges here on the forums :smiley:

    @Bochiman You're first going to have to prove you can take care of an egg baby before a whole preschool ;):D

    :star::star: Nailed it !

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    .

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Question for Don Willis: Does pcgs grade US and world coins to the same standard?

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I do. That's why many collectors of foreign coins say foreign coins are being over graded in the U.S.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @Kudbegud said:
    PLEASE
    Start grading Dan Carr items

    At best his works are grossly altered coins, and many would argue that the pieces are counterfeits. Why would PCGS grade them?

    What a narrow observation. :( I'm sorry that many folks agree with you and think the beautiful pieces he produces that go up in value faster than most of the junk others collect should be ignored and considered to be illegal.

    At one time Mint errors worth $$$ were considered junk that most did not want. Coins that were damaged in any way were sent back unslabbed by the top TPGS. I guess the short answer is folks collect his stuff, want them slabbed, and other grading services do it = **MONEY. <3

    How can one advertise that it refuses to slab altered coins (or worse) and then slab grossly altered pieces? Do words have no meaning at all with you? To add insult to injury fantasy dates and his fantasy proofs (of existing dates - 2009 SAE) are very dangerous thanks to your other favorite hobby figure - Walter Breen. Walter was great at making up new varieties/pieces from existing coins. Carr makes his own.

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,556 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Broadstruck said:

    @Bochiman said:
    I've got the #1 board suggestion for him......

    Make ME a mod with banning privileges here on the forums :smiley:

    @Bochiman You're first going to have to prove you can take care of an egg baby before a whole preschool ;):D

    Truth!
    Funny how it scared at least 3 into having to click "disagree" on my post....I guess they can't enjoy a little sarcasm or a good joke. You obviously got it though ;)

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As a new member, I found the submission form very confusing.

    I really like the new holders & the True-View pictures are great.

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2018 10:43PM

    @MrEureka said:
    Question for Don Willis: Does pcgs grade US and world coins to the same standard?

    @Insider2 said:
    I do. That's why many collectors of foreign coins say foreign coins are being over graded in the U.S..

    I don’t have a strong opinion on how things are right now. I’m more interested in the intended standard.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ReadyFireAim said:
    As a new member, I found the submission form very confusing.

    Check this page out. It should help. If you have questions Customer Service is very helpful. 1-800-447-8848

    https://pcgs.com/SubmissionGuide/


  • shishshish Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Honor your grade guarantee, including paying the difference in value when down-grading a coin.
    Setup an email for customer service and respond quickly rather than ignoring customer emails.
    Population counts are fiction. Create an incentive for returned labels.
    Delays in committed turn around times due to shows are unacceptable.
    Eliminate the snobbish attitude that PCGS is perfect and treat your customers like you care about them.
    After you screw up automatically volunteer to pay postage both ways.

    Liberty Seated and Trade Dollar Specialist
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2018 9:32AM

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @Insider2 said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @Kudbegud said:
    PLEASE
    Start grading Dan Carr items

    At best his works are grossly altered coins, and many would argue that the pieces are counterfeits. Why would PCGS grade them?

    What a narrow observation. :( I'm sorry that many folks agree with you and think the beautiful pieces he produces that go up in value faster than most of the junk others collect should be ignored and considered to be illegal.

    At one time Mint errors worth $$$ were considered junk that most did not want. Coins that were damaged in any way were sent back unslabbed by the top TPGS. I guess the short answer is folks collect his stuff, want them slabbed, and other grading services do it = **MONEY. <3

    How can one advertise that it refuses to slab ALTERED COINS (or worse) and then slab grossly altered pieces? Do words have no meaning at all with you? To add insult to injury fantasy dates and his fantasy proofs (of existing dates - 2009 SAE) are very dangerous thanks to your other favorite hobby figure - Walter Breen. Walter was great at making up new varieties/pieces from existing coins. Carr makes his own.

    I've learned that after ONE TRY, it makes little sense to discuss anything with the uninformed. I'm glad to read your opinion and delighted to learn that one less person is buying Mr. Carr's beautiful, limited mintage creations. I showed one of his recent gold Winged Liberty $20 overstrikes to one of the country's large dealers. He was enthralled - twisting and rotating the piece (MS-70) for almost a full minute to capture all of its beauty!

    BTW: Do words have no meaning at all with YOU? I suggest you learn what an original coin with UN-altered surfaces looks like. After that, you may wish to learn the difference between a natural surface and **one that is ALTERED yet "market acceptable" that is STRAIGHT GRADED inside a TPGS slab!

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am overall happy with PCGS. Two things I would like to see:

    -Add show grading and reconsiderations to the online entry system.
    -Conservative grading can be good, but it is a bit too much right now.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2018 2:09PM

    @Insider2 said:
    BTW: Do words have no meaning at all with YOU? I suggest you learn what an original coin with UN-altered surfaces looks like. After that, you may wish to learn the difference between a natural surface and **one that is ALTERED yet "market acceptable" that is STRAIGHT GRADED inside a TPGS slab!

    There is nothing natural about his pieces. If grossly altered/tooled is now mainstream for a straight grade then this hobby really has gone to hell, and the market needs to reset.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2018 5:13PM

    @cameonut2011 said: "If grossly altered/tooled is now mainstream for a straight grade then this hobby really has gone to hell, and the market needs to reset.

    Back to words and the meaning again. Unfortunately, adjectives such a "grossly" mean nothing as many uninformed posters claim a coin with a few hairlines is "grossly" cleaned. Chemically altered surfaces are in the same category. EVERYTHING that happens to a coin after it is made occurs in degrees! All improper cleaning and altered surfaces are not obvious to most collectors. The TPGS are the arbitrators of acceptability. I have read that CAC was started to help ID the more desirable market acceptable coins. <3

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    @cameonut2011 said: "If grossly altered/tooled is now mainstream for a straight grade then this hobby really has gone to hell, and the market needs to reset.

    Back to words and the meaning again. Unfortunately, adjectives such a "grossly" mean nothing as many uninformed posters claim a coin with a few hairlines is "grossly" cleaned. Chemically altered surfaces are in the same category. EVERYTHING that happens to a coin after it is made occurs in degrees! All improper cleaning and altered surfaces is not obvious to most collectors. The TPGS are the arbitrators of acceptability. I have read that CAC was started to help ID the more desirable market acceptable coins. <3

    Over striking a coin to eliminate 99% of the original coin is a gross alteration under any reasonable definition of those terms. Your argument defies logic and common sense.

    I also am not sure I agree that the TPGS are as infallible and authoritative as you seem to think - that's why we have CAC and a coin market in chaos. Fewer and fewer are trusting third party grading services.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said: "Over striking a coin to eliminate 99% of the original coin is a gross alteration under any reasonable definition of those terms. Your argument defies logic and common sense.

    I also am not sure I agree that the TPGS are as infallible and authoritative as you seem to think - that's why we have CAC and a coin market in chaos. Fewer and fewer are trusting third party grading services."

    :):wink:<3

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,709 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Wabbit2313 said:
    I am overall happy with PCGS. Two things I would like to see:

    -Add show grading and reconsiderations to the online entry system.
    -Conservative grading can be good, but it is a bit too much right now.

    Consistent grading is even better!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @Wabbit2313 said:
    I am overall happy with PCGS. Two things I would like to see:

    -Add show grading and reconsiderations to the online entry system.
    -Conservative grading can be good, but it is a bit too much right now.

    Consistent grading is even better!

    Back when you say you were grading at Anacs, many of those holders now go down in grade. I have sent in numerous photo certificate coins that went down 1 or 2 grades. In fact, just the other day someone here posted that their small Anacs holders went down 2 grades. You must have really been grading loose in the old days! You have also become susceptible to the herd mentality around here, just repeating what you hear without any evidence at all. I send in hundreds of coins as my proof.

  • nencoinnencoin Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭✭

    +1 on adding the Reconsideration service to the online submission entry process.

  • georgiacop50georgiacop50 Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭✭

    The PCGS blue or green boxes should be made from a recyclable material.

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,022 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 25, 2018 2:02PM

    At the recent ANA I had some high grade high value NGC graded foreign coins I wanted to submit for show grading.

    Show grading was not offered for foreign coins !😉

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    .

    @cameonut2011 said:

    Over striking a coin to eliminate 99% of the original coin is a gross alteration under any reasonable definition of those terms. Your argument defies logic and common sense.

    Many mints around the world and throughout history have overstruck old coins with new dies. We don't call them "altered". They're called overstrikes.

    But more to the point, I suppose, if a 1923 Peace Dollar is overstruck with false 1964 dies and authenticated as a 1923 Peace Dollar, I'd have a problem with it. If it's certified as what is is, no problem. IMHO, the only reason for a TPG to not do it is if they feel that it cheapens their brand.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 25, 2018 2:30PM

    @MrEureka said:
    .

    @cameonut2011 said:

    Over striking a coin to eliminate 99% of the original coin is a gross alteration under any reasonable definition of those terms. Your argument defies logic and common sense.

    Many mints around the world and throughout history have overstruck old coins with new dies. We don't call them "altered". They're called overstrikes.

    The distinction is that the resulting piece is a coin struck as intended by the mint pursuant to law. The certification, thus, is for the new coin and not the obliterated host coin. In Carr's case, only the first, now mutilated design of the host coin is relevant as the other is an unofficial private strike made from false dies. It does not escape my attention that some private restrikes are graded (also problematic) but none to my knowledge were ever struck from privately made false dies.

    Some (not you) appear to be having a fit interpreting my comments to disparage those who purchase his works. That was not my intent. It would be hypocritical for a service to portend that it only slabs genuine coins without significant alterations and then to slab these.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said: "IMHO, the only reason for a TPG to not do it is if they feel that it cheapens their brand."

    That was the argument I got in 1998 when I tried to get a major grading service to slab problem coins (as the TPGS I left) and counterfeits!

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 25, 2018 2:50PM

    @cameonut2011 said: "It would be hypocritical for a service to portend that it only slabs genuine coins without significant alterations and then to slab these. "

    Of course. But if they choose to clearly describe and holder privately struck "fantasy" issues and fake coins, they're going to openly state that they're doing so. No hypocrisy there.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,709 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Wabbit2313 said:

    @CaptHenway said:

    @Wabbit2313 said:
    I am overall happy with PCGS. Two things I would like to see:

    -Add show grading and reconsiderations to the online entry system.
    -Conservative grading can be good, but it is a bit too much right now.

    Consistent grading is even better!

    Back when you say you were grading at Anacs, many of those holders now go down in grade. I have sent in numerous photo certificate coins that went down 1 or 2 grades. In fact, just the other day someone here posted that their small Anacs holders went down 2 grades. You must have really been grading loose in the old days! You have also become susceptible to the herd mentality around here, just repeating what you hear without any evidence at all. I send in hundreds of coins as my proof.

    None of the coins I graded went into slabs. That began years after I left there.

    I have no idea if the photo certificate coins you sent in were graded before or after I left there, or which of the various sets of PCGS standards they were graded by when they went there.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • KbKardsKbKards Posts: 1,782 ✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    @cameonut2011 said: "It would be hypocritical for a service to portend that it only slabs genuine coins without significant alterations and then to slab these. "

    Of course. But if they choose to clearly describe and holder privately struck "fantasy" issues and fake coins, they're going to openly state that they're doing so. No hypocrisy there.

    There are many different kinds of coin collectors and they're going to collect what they want to collect regardless of if there are other collectors out there who will put them down and what they choose to collect. There would be nothing wrong with PCGS figuring up accurate, proper and safe labeling of these and slab them. It's funny that on a collectors.com message board, presumably geared to collectors of PCGS graded coins, one of the most posted to and viewed threads is one about Carr's pieces. Coin collectors excited about what they collect. Imagine that, and they can't even get what they collect into the PCGS holder they would prefer to see it in. If CU is exploring new ways to increase revenue they don't have to look too far.

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2018 5:36AM

    Offer an “Authentication Only” service for coins under $3000. $5 a coin, same slab, no grade. It would be great for bullion, treasure coins, cheap ancients, TV promotion deals, modern issues, and anything else that doesn’t warrant the expense of currently offered services.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:
    Offer an “Authentication Only” service for coins under $3000. $5 a coin, same slab, no grade. It would be great for bullion, treasure coins, cheap ancients, TV promotion deals, modern issues, and anything else that doesn’t warrant the expense of currently offered services.

    Could this be like the old Genuine service that only said "Genuine" on the slab with no rejection reason?

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In general, I think increasing the number of items slabbed is a good thing. Other TPGs slab many more items than PCGS and being able to attract those items and collectors is a good thing.

    PCGS has started to go into exonumia with Civil War Tokens, So-Called Dollars, etc. but is still behind some other TPGs. Part of this is the willingness to certify items that are "unlisted" in published references. While PCGS has started this, it is still behind other services. Other TPGs either slab more items without a reference or are even starting to assign new reference numbers.

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