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PayPal claim, what to do next? *Resolved* Update in OP.

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  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,028 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @grote15 said:

    If you are selling via eBay, eBay TOS now allow them to charge the account you use to pay your monthly fees.

    That may well be, but it's PP in this case and I was sure that they were disallowed from auto debiting a member's bank account.

    That brings it back to my original point that an off eBay transaction is better off for the OP in this case than an eBay one.

    Still not true. eBay is irrelevant - on or off.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,028 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MorganMan94 said:
    Alright so I made a call and talked to a representative who said bullion does not have any buyer or seller protection so the case should not have even been opened in the first place. He told me he would escalate it to a claim and then close it in my favor. He upgraded it to a claim (5 minutes ago or so) and am now just waiting on the resolution. Sure hope he is right....

    If he paid via credit card, he'll just file a chargeback.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,028 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @3stars said:
    I'm not sure how photos of the packing process is helpful. I could easily fake that by putting together a "correct" box, and then ship a similar "fake" box.

    I agree. It's something of an urban legend on this site.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • MorganMan94MorganMan94 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MorganMan94 said:
    Alright so I made a call and talked to a representative who said bullion does not have any buyer or seller protection so the case should not have even been opened in the first place. He told me he would escalate it to a claim and then close it in my favor. He upgraded it to a claim (5 minutes ago or so) and am now just waiting on the resolution. Sure hope he is right....

    If he paid via credit card, he'll just file a chargeback.

    Here is another piece that worries me. He said he would take it but he was driving and would pay that night when he got home, never did. Then the next day I ask him if he still wanted it and he said yes, but I need to transfer some money from my checking account so it'll be another day. Then the third day it was still transferring (he said), and the fourth day he did end up paying me. That did give me some pause but he eventually paid. If what he said is true he took it from his checking account.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,865 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2018 5:48PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @grote15 said:

    If you are selling via eBay, eBay TOS now allow them to charge the account you use to pay your monthly fees.

    That may well be, but it's PP in this case and I was sure that they were disallowed from auto debiting a member's bank account.

    That brings it back to my original point that an off eBay transaction is better off for the OP in this case than an eBay one.

    Still not true. eBay is irrelevant - on or off.

    Paypal is easier to work with as a seller than ebay, imo. Your opinion may differ but is just that.

    I sold an item via paypal goods about a year ago and buyer filed a chargeback stating the purchase was unauthorized. I was not debited any funds because I was covered under paypal seller protection and followed their shipping instructions.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,028 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @grote15 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    o. Your opinion may differ but is just that.

    I sold an item via paypal goods about a year ago and buyer filed a chargeback stating the purchase was unauthorized. I was not debited any funds because I was covered under paypal seller protection and followed their shipping instructions.

    My point is that you really don't deal with eBay. eBay passes it off to PayPal who, if a CC was use, passes it off to the CC company.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,028 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MorganMan94 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MorganMan94 said:
    Alright so I made a call and talked to a representative who said bullion does not have any buyer or seller protection so the case should not have even been opened in the first place. He told me he would escalate it to a claim and then close it in my favor. He upgraded it to a claim (5 minutes ago or so) and am now just waiting on the resolution. Sure hope he is right....

    If he paid via credit card, he'll just file a chargeback.

    Here is another piece that worries me. He said he would take it but he was driving and would pay that night when he got home, never did. Then the next day I ask him if he still wanted it and he said yes, but I need to transfer some money from my checking account so it'll be another day. Then the third day it was still transferring (he said), and the fourth day he did end up paying me. That did give me some pause but he eventually paid. If what he said is true he took it from his checking account.

    Well, then he's essentially screwed.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,408 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MorganMan94 said:
    Alright so I made a call and talked to a representative who said bullion does not have any buyer or seller protection so the case should not have even been opened in the first place. He told me he would escalate it to a claim and then close it in my favor. He upgraded it to a claim (5 minutes ago or so) and am now just waiting on the resolution. Sure hope he is right....

    If it's a legitimate transaction why should it matter if the package contents are bullion or not?

    theknowitalltroll;
  • MorganMan94MorganMan94 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @MorganMan94 said:
    Alright so I made a call and talked to a representative who said bullion does not have any buyer or seller protection so the case should not have even been opened in the first place. He told me he would escalate it to a claim and then close it in my favor. He upgraded it to a claim (5 minutes ago or so) and am now just waiting on the resolution. Sure hope he is right....

    If it's a legitimate transaction why should it matter if the package contents are bullion or not?

    It wouldn't if there wasn't an issue. He mentioned that after I told him what was in the package.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,028 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @MorganMan94 said:
    Alright so I made a call and talked to a representative who said bullion does not have any buyer or seller protection so the case should not have even been opened in the first place. He told me he would escalate it to a claim and then close it in my favor. He upgraded it to a claim (5 minutes ago or so) and am now just waiting on the resolution. Sure hope he is right....

    If it's a legitimate transaction why should it matter if the package contents are bullion or not?

    Lots of insurance companies refuse to insure cash or bullion. Read the fine print. Including the post office and Shipcover

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,408 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MorganMan94 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MorganMan94 said:
    Alright so I made a call and talked to a representative who said bullion does not have any buyer or seller protection so the case should not have even been opened in the first place. He told me he would escalate it to a claim and then close it in my favor. He upgraded it to a claim (5 minutes ago or so) and am now just waiting on the resolution. Sure hope he is right....

    If he paid via credit card, he'll just file a chargeback.

    Here is another piece that worries me. He said he would take it but he was driving and would pay that night when he got home, never did. Then the next day I ask him if he still wanted it and he said yes, but I need to transfer some money from my checking account so it'll be another day. Then the third day it was still transferring (he said), and the fourth day he did end up paying me. That did give me some pause but he eventually paid. If what he said is true he took it from his checking account.

    That's why you never use a debit card if you can use a CC. Much harder to win a dispute if you pay with a debit card. So if he paid out of a checking acct, he's SOL for a chargeback.

    theknowitalltroll;
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2018 6:37PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @MorganMan94 said:
    Alright so I made a call and talked to a representative who said bullion does not have any buyer or seller protection so the case should not have even been opened in the first place. He told me he would escalate it to a claim and then close it in my favor. He upgraded it to a claim (5 minutes ago or so) and am now just waiting on the resolution. Sure hope he is right....

    If it's a legitimate transaction why should it matter if the package contents are bullion or not?

    Lots of insurance companies refuse to insure cash or bullion. Read the fine print. Including the post office and Shipcover

    It's not an insurance issue IMO. The buyer didn't pay PP extra for insurance coverage.

    According to this, bullion is not something that is excluded from purchase protection.

    https://paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security

    theknowitalltroll;
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,028 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    ash or bullion. Read the fine print. Including the post office and Shipcover

    It's not an insurance issue IMO. The buyer didn't pay PP extra for insurance coverage.

    It is an "insurance issue". What do you think a PayPal or eBay guarantee is? It's insurance and also has conditions associated with it. Insurance doesn't mean you paid extra for it, it means someone is "insuring" your satisfaction.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,028 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    It's not an insurance issue IMO. The buyer didn't pay PP extra for insurance coverage.

    According to this, bullion is not something that is excluded from purchase protection.

    Ineligible items and transactions under PayPal’s Purchase Protection program
    Payments for the following are not eligible for reimbursement under PayPal Purchase Protection:

    Real estate, including residential property.
    Financial products or investments of any kind.
    Businesses (when you buy or invest in a business).
    Vehicles, including, but not limited to, motor vehicles, motorcycles, caravans, aircraft and boats.
    Significantly Not As Described claims for custom-made items.
    Donations including payments on crowdfunding platforms.
    Items prohibited by the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy.
    For Item Not Received claims, items which you collect in person or arrange to be collected on your behalf, including items bought in a seller’s store location.
    Industrial machinery used in manufacturing.
    Anything purchased from, or an amount paid to, a government agency.
    Stored value items such as gift cards and pre-paid cards.
    Gambling, gaming and/or any other activity with an entry fee and a prize.
    Payments sent using PayPal’s friends and family functionality.
    Payments sent using PayPal to any bill payment service.
    Payments made using PayPal Payouts and Mass Pay or guest checkout transactions (i.e. not sent using your PayPal account).

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,408 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    It's not an insurance issue IMO. The buyer didn't pay PP extra for insurance coverage.

    According to this, bullion is not something that is excluded from purchase protection.

    Ineligible items and transactions under PayPal’s Purchase Protection program
    Payments for the following are not eligible for reimbursement under PayPal Purchase Protection:

    Real estate, including residential property.
    Financial products or investments of any kind.
    Businesses (when you buy or invest in a business).
    Vehicles, including, but not limited to, motor vehicles, motorcycles, caravans, aircraft and boats.
    Significantly Not As Described claims for custom-made items.
    Donations including payments on crowdfunding platforms.
    Items prohibited by the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy.
    For Item Not Received claims, items which you collect in person or arrange to be collected on your behalf, including items bought in a seller’s store location.
    Industrial machinery used in manufacturing.
    Anything purchased from, or an amount paid to, a government agency.
    Stored value items such as gift cards and pre-paid cards.
    Gambling, gaming and/or any other activity with an entry fee and a prize.
    Payments sent using PayPal’s friends and family functionality.
    Payments sent using PayPal to any bill payment service.
    Payments made using PayPal Payouts and Mass Pay or guest checkout transactions (i.e. not sent using your PayPal account).

    Where's the bullion? Hidden in investments?

    theknowitalltroll;
  • segojasegoja Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭✭

    If a recipient signs for a package, it does not relieve the sender from claim for fraud if it can be proven that the sender committed said fraud.
    A signature only validates receipt/delivery. It doesn't validate package contents.

    Try proving fraud with the post office. You'll find it impossible.

    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

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  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,028 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    It's not an insurance issue IMO. The buyer didn't pay PP extra for insurance coverage.

    According to this, bullion is not something that is excluded from purchase protection.

    Ineligible items and transactions under PayPal’s Purchase Protection program
    Payments for the following are not eligible for reimbursement under PayPal Purchase Protection:

    Real estate, including residential property.
    Financial products or investments of any kind.

    >

    Where's the bullion? Hidden in investments?

    yes

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,028 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @segoja said:
    If a recipient signs for a package, it does not relieve the sender from claim for fraud if it can be proven that the sender committed said fraud.
    A signature only validates receipt/delivery. It doesn't validate package contents.

    Try proving fraud with the post office. You'll find it impossible.

    well, it is rather difficult to prove in general. If contents are tampered with, there is no good way (usually) to know whether the sender did it, the post office did it, or the recipient did it

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    100oz bar’s can be sold and bought on this site or with a dealer. Not worth the effort especially a go around on EBay. Always insure. Best of luck hope it works out.

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,028 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kkathyl said:
    100oz bar’s can be sold and bought on this site or with a dealer. Not worth the effort especially a go around on EBay. Always insure. Best of luck hope it works out.

    collectible bars, as opposed to bullion, are likely NOT best sold on this site.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Video surveillance is sound business practice if you wrap and pack on video and it’s picked up on video no dispute as to what was put In and how it looked exactly at moment it was taken by carrier.

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,408 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @segoja said:
    If a recipient signs for a package, it does not relieve the sender from claim for fraud if it can be proven that the sender committed said fraud.
    A signature only validates receipt/delivery. It doesn't validate package contents.

    Try proving fraud with the post office. You'll find it impossible.

    I didn't mention or imply the USPS.

    In this case the buyer is accusing the seller of sending a wheel instead of a silver bar.

    theknowitalltroll;
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,146 ✭✭✭✭✭

    below is PayPal's .... what is excluded from SELLERS protection...I do not see bullion as not being covered.

    What isn’t covered by Seller Protection?
    Most PayPal transactions are covered as long as they follow these requirements. However, there are instances where Seller Protection doesn’t apply:
    Claims, chargebacks, or reversals filed because the item is significantly different from how it was described (e.g. you described an item as “new,” but sent a used one).
    Intangible purchases like services, digital goods, etc.
    Items picked up locally or in person.
    Transactions made through PayPal Direct, Virtual Terminal, PayPal Business, or PayPal Here.
    Instances where you receive multiple payments for an item.
    Claims filed directly through an eBay account.
    Prohibited items such as drug paraphernalia, ammunition/firearms, or counterfeit goods.
    First Class Mail International, since the receipt only shows the address the order was delivered to – not the customer's address.
    These eligibility requirements for coverage can also be found in the Seller Protection section of our User Agreement.

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,721 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jafo50 said:
    He sent it Priority mail instead of Registered. Not sure if that makes a difference with PayPal.

    makes no difference as long as it was signed for.

    No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left

  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 20, 2018 8:40AM

    PP will have to decide who to believe and may very well eat the loss themselves.

    @MorganMan94 said:
    Alright so I made a call and talked to a representative who said bullion does not have any buyer or seller protection so the case should not have even been opened in the first place.

    PP drone is incorrect. PP has covered me as a buyer on numerous claims involving a bullion purchase.

    No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left

  • KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2018 8:54AM

    I have to see a picture of a wheel now because that is crazy

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,697 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kkathyl said:
    I have to see a picture of a wheel now because that is crazy

    I am not sure what you would call this, but depending on packaging could be exchanged for bar during transport

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,408 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Any update?

    theknowitalltroll;
  • MorganMan94MorganMan94 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    Any update?

    I uploaded some information and escalated it to a claim, they sent an email stating they were awaiting the buyers response to provide additional information.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,408 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MorganMan94 said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:
    Any update?

    I uploaded some information and escalated it to a claim, they sent an email stating they were awaiting the buyers response to provide additional information.

    Hope you prevail.

    theknowitalltroll;
  • MorganMan94MorganMan94 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Update in the OP.

  • MorganMan94MorganMan94 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Care to share what you find funny about this?
    @Wabbit2313 @bigjpst

  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MorganMan94 said:
    Care to share what you find funny about this?
    @Wabbit2313 @bigjpst

    No idea that I had clicked that.

  • pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,755 ✭✭✭

    9/21 Update: PayPal closed the case in my favor. When I called them they asked him for additional information (I don't know what addition information) but he never got back to them. I haven't heard from him since the day it got delivered.

    Looks like he might actually have the silver in his possession if he refused to cooperate with the claim. Or he thought he had no recourse if he did have a wheel instead since he paid out of personal checking.

    But what is the buyers protection in this case. Is the buyer out of his money if he actually does have the wheel because of postal tampering instead of the silver?

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am happy it worked out for you.

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