Latest example of huge price difference between PCGS and NGC coin in auction
jt88
Posts: 3,075 ✭✭✭✭✭
First one is auction in HA June 2018 for $14,400. I was out bid by two bid because I did not want to bid more on NGC coin. The second one is auction by Steven Album last night for $188,000. I saw this kind of price difference all the time but this one is too big.
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Comments
wow!
BHNC #203
Hang on...one's a 62 and the other is a 64. That may be far less about NGC vs. PCGS as it is about the rarity of a 64 relative to a 62.
not more than 10 times difference.
It could be. What are the pops of each
Rainbow Stars
There are one each MS-60 and MS-62 graded by NGC and the highest-graded example by PCGS is AU-58. This is the finest known example!
It certainly could be. Look at an 84-S Morgan $:
AU-50 about $150
AU-58 about $1500
MS-60 about $8000
If you then go higher, same coin in MS-62 is $19,000 and MS-64 is $120,000
I don't know a dang thing about these coins, and it's odd to mention them on a US coin board, but 2 grades can make a huge difference in plenty of series (almost any series, really):
1812 CBH in MS 65, $16k, in MS67 $82k
1888-O Morgan in MS64 = $1,450, in MS66 $70,000
1799 $10 eagle in MS63 = $64,500, in MS65 = $300.000
1914 Lincoln Cent in MS65RD = $525, in MS67RD = $35,000
1938-D Buffalo Nickel in MS66 = $60, in MS68 = $7,500
For the coin in question, CoinFacts shows that PCGS has graded a single MS64 coin with none finer. In fact, the next lowest graded coin they have seen is a single AU58 and they have only graded six in all grades. I have no doubt that the vast majority of these are not in PCGS plastic, but you're making assumptions about the value of one TPG vs another when the volume of data available is insufficient to support anything.
It's entirely different to compare MS65 1921 Peace dollars, for example. There, there is a wealth of auction and other pricing information available to support a discussion.
NGC pop is 1 in 62 and none higher
PCGS pop is 1 in 64 and none higher
In fact, PCGS has only 1 above a 58, the 64.
PCGS price guide (for what it's worth) doesn't even list a price above AU-55 ($4200).
Rare coin in any grade. 64 is highest at any service by two. And there's only a total population of 3 coins above AU-58: an NGC 60, the NGC 62 referenced and the PCGS 64.
Very rare coin in mint state.
Condition rarity can bite you on the butt, right where you keep your wallet.
...hashtag: Crazy Rich Asians
That 62 is not a 62. No better than 58. Look at the central flower pot or whatever it is and look at the bands on it.
bob
Comparing Apples to Poop!
You are not comparing the same items. I don't know Chinese coins, but in the American series the price difference between MS-62 and MS-64 for a scarce item can be huge, especially if there are registty points involved.
The NGC example is not only a lower grade, but it also looks 'dipped' to me. The PCGS example looks original. I would expect a large price difference...how big?...no idea, as I know zip about Chinese numismatics.
Dave
I think you mean 1880-O Morgan, but your point remains the same.
If wealthy Chinese are buying, they will pay what they have to go get what they want.
I would respectively suggest to the OP if he compares NGC to PCGS auction prices, make sure the coins are the same grade.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Pretty bad example. Compare apples to apples and get back to me.
Ditto, comparing a 62 to a 64 has nothing to do with price discrepancies between grading companies. If the holders were flipped you would see the same.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
I think I have one of those coins in my junk box.
Not a grading service issue. It is a coin grade issue. Looks like bidders actually bought the coin, and not the number on the slab.
I know some of you want to put your head into the sand and deny the price difference in PCGS and NGC in auction. I will give you an apple to apple example. The following both were from SB 2012 auction. I don't have the certification number because SB did not provide it. Folks, it is time to wake up and accept the reality and start to put pressure on NGC asking NGC to improve their services to get your money worth; otherwise you will be the big loser not NGC. The reason I use China coin because I don't follow US coins.
First one:
Sold $298,750
Est: $75,000-$125,000
Lot Description
Mint State 1897 Ornamental Edge Kiangnan Dollar
CHINA. Kiangnan. 7 Mace 2 Candareens (Dollar), ND (1897). PCGS MS-62 Secure Holder.
L&M-210a; K-66d; Y-145.1; Hsu-106. Ornamental edge. Cross bar of "A's" of "KIANGNAN" scarcely visible. Very attractive toning.
Estimate: $75,000 - $125,000.
PCGS MS-62 Secure Holder.
Provenance: She Yim (Hap) Wong Collection.
Second one:
Sold $50,787.50
Est: $50,000-$75,000
Lot Description
Mint State 1897 Ornamental Edge Kiangnan Dollar
CHINA. Kiangnan. 7 Mace 2 Candareens (Dollar), ND (ca. 1897). NGC MS-62.
L&M-210a; K-66d; Y-145.1; Hsu-106. Ornamental edge. Cross-strokes in the letter "A" in "KIANG-NAN" scarcely visible. Attractive old collection tone.
Estimate: $50,000 - $75,000.
NGC MS-62.
Provenance: From the Collection of a Prominent Southern California Collector.
Another example; it might not apple to apple but prove my point.
First one last night auction:
Sold for $85,187. PCGS UNC Details
second one NGC MS63, 2018 Hong Kong April auction. Sold for Hong Kong Dollar 590,000 about USD $84,285
Kiang Nan Province Kuang Hsu Silver Dollar, ND (1897) (L&M-210A), herring bone edge. NGC MS63.
I don't have the certification number.
...and more importantly, of the same Quality.
And on your second example, nope again, far different Quality, and apparently at least two nuclear bidders.
Show results for the exact same coin that "crossed over" there is plenty of evidence to support your point. Also, over here, use US coins as exhibits.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
We all KNOW there's a difference for certain types. Your original example, however, doesn't show that at all.
I could also suggest that anyone buying $100k coins based on just the holder is an idiot.
Or or or Is a a zillionaire!
You can be a zillionaire and also an idiot. They are not mutually exclusive. The point is that if you are buying $100k coins, you ought to look at the coin not just the number on the holder.
I have some SGS 70s here if anyone wants them.
jm
Why so sad? None of that was meant to apply to you.
So what’s your point? Your not even comparing items of the same grade.
In analysis of difference to Pcgs vs NGC I refer to the blue sheet.
Keep convo on US Coins.