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Guess the Date and Mint of this Liberty Double Eagle--Date/Mint/Grade Revealed
BloodMan
Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
This coin was a new purchase from the Philly ANA. Can you guess the Date and Mint? There is a diagnostic that should help. Also, I would like to know your thoughts on the grade.
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Date/Mint/Grade Revealed Below
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Comments
1878 cc
1882 or 1878-CC in EF.
[Well - it was only 4 years off....]
1884-CC AU-58
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
1878-CC
AU-58
Nice one !
I'm going to guess it is something to do with the 6th star.
1878-CC, look for the diagnostic .
R.I.P. Bear
The diagnostic die polish is at the bottom of the reverse coming from the denticals into the field.
Funny story but not so funny back then. In the 1970's we discovered that one of the major defects found on counterfeit gold (besides their color) were tool marks on the counterfeit die. Most of the time, they came from the rim into the field just as these. Lester Merkin, a gentleman dealer sent one of these coins in to be authenticated. When I saw the tool marks, we returned the coin back to him as a "counterfeit." He called the office and asked us to take another look. No fuss, no threats, nothing. He believed the coin to be genuine and wanted us to review our opinion. When we got the coin back, we took it over to the Smithsonian to compare it to one in the Lilly Collection. It was a perfect match for that reverse and we certified Lester's coin as genuine.
From this lesson, we realized that sooner or later, every characteristic defect seen on a counterfeit coin could occur on a genuine piece. The reverse is also true and today's state-of-the-art fakes prove it overwhelmingly!
Hey #insider: would you not expect to see the same diagnostics on real and fake as the fakes were copied from real ones? Just a simple question.
bob
Yes, but there is a difference. In 1972, we called the Omega $20 counterfeit. Our opinion was not accepted. Unbeknown to us, Breen was sent to the Smithsonian to examine the genuine pieces they had. He found a match with the same die polish line from the "L" in "Liberty" and claimed that proved the Omega's were genuine.
We did not find this out until his findings were published. We knew differently because we had alerted the Mint Lab authenticators about the "new" fakes. When we went to the museum to confirm Breen's findings **we realized that the method of making a counterfeit die was good enough in 1972 to pick up SOME of the die polish on a genuine specimen used to produce the counterfeit die!""
From that experience on, we used ONLY the most microscopic characteristics for our diagnostic files as these would not transfer.
So to finally answer your question, I have not seen a counterfeit of this coin - yet. I should expect that the tool marks are strong enough to be transferred to a fake. Fortunately, at high powers of magnification, they will not look the same as on a genuine piece.
The main diagnostic is the prominent vertical die scratch on the neck, near the hair.
The coin is indeed an 1878-CC $20-- several forum members identified the correct date/mint. Well Done.
There are a few diagnostic features. The main diagnostic (as DCarr indicated) is the long, nearly vertical die scratch on Liberty's neck near the hair. On the reverse there are two small die lumps between TY in TWENTY. There may be others that I am not aware of.
The coin is in a PCGS holder with the grade shown below…
@BloodMan
I did not get to vote..... Nice pick up!
Just as an aside, Carson City dies are notorious for showing heavy due gouges and/or scratches. Don’t know why this is.
Nice gold coin....and it is a CC...
Missed the guessing game... but would have been wrong. 
Cheers, RickO
I just guessed
I just saw the thread and was going to guess 78-cc too; typical poor strike; I had an XF that did not look strong enough for the grade, but that's the way the grading services see it. Probably an upgrade at NGC.
Nice, crusty example!
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