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Is this an authentic Buffalo Nickel or not?

jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,404 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I posted pics of the obv only of this coin due to the odd surface look and received a couple of opinions. I would appreciate your help in determining(from photos) if it is authentic or not.
Thank you,
Jim



When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain

Comments

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,603 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 24, 2018 4:26AM

    Looks highly questionable to me....rims don't look right, surface doesn't look right, and missing high point detail (seemly not from strike or wear) all make me suspicious....and being one of the key dates, all the more reason to be suspicious.
    Guessing someone will come along and ask if you've weighed it....but I'm guessing you don't actually own it.

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  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I actually own it, Greg, but have not received it yet. I hope to have many more opinions before the day is out.
    Thanks, Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Isn't it both sad and frightening that we now have to wonder about the authenticity of coins that look like that? It could be real or it could be a fake that has been artificially worn down and cleaned to make it look real.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,478 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Does the mint mark look a little...BIG?

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  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looking at the edges of some of the devices (right side as viewed) it appears the wear may be artificial...Just not even as usually observed. Of course, this is judging from one picture...So ICBW... If you had not already purchased it, I would say "Do not."....Let us know when you get it and can show better pictures...Hope I am wrong. Cheers, RickO

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like a very weak strike.

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  • BustyPotatoBustyPotato Posts: 81 ✭✭✭

    @oih82w8 said:
    Does the mint mark look a little...BIG?

    That's something that stood out to me is the MM looks rather large. I don't know whats happening on the surface between the Buffalo's head and the plain it stands on?

    A government accident left me a former man, a potato. That photo on my profile is a low resolution selfie. I like coins.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I feel the mintmark is the key that it is wrong. Upon getting the coin, I will photograph it well and weigh it and measure it. I believe now that it is truly counterfeit, but will contact ebay/paypal upon receipt.
    Thanks to all for the help.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Look at the fields. Compare with a good 1913-S (any condition). ;)

  • thebeavthebeav Posts: 3,848 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think that there may have been different MM dies this year as these two pix are both 1913 S's.
    But there is a lot about your coin that smells. The ding and scratch on the buffalo almost look like they were put there on purpose.

    My Ebay Coin Store
  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,339 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow... interesting thread. Thanks for sharing. My first impression was that the coin might have been acid dipped to enhance details.

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  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Ikenific Wow... interesting thread. Thanks for sharing. My first impression was that the coin might have been acid dipped to enhance details.

    That's what I thought also last week when I posted that very question, but got few responses and none in agreement. Looks like I will go through the return fight upon receiving it. I have noticed several different mint marks on graded coins and one larger than others, but not as large as this one. Of course they were higher grades which would not indicate spread of mint mark to wear. I still now totally feel this is counterfeit. Thanks, Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • tennbjjtennbjj Posts: 94 ✭✭✭

    Not a buffalo expert by any means, but one more odd thing is the alignment of "US OF A" on the back.

    It may just be the angle of your coin photo, but the U in United and last A in America should line up as shown in the bottom coin, but dont seem to on your coin:

    Also the I in United looks too skinny at the base, and the O in "OF" looks way wrong, but maybe there were varieties I am unaware of

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    .
    i am leaning towards acid/buffing/altered surfaces somehow.
    .

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  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jesbroken said:
    I posted pics of the obv only of this coin due to the odd surface look and received a couple of opinions. I would appreciate your help in determining(from photos) if it is authentic or not.
    Thank you,
    Jim


    You need to post an image that can be magnified. Some counterfeits are extremely good.. So far, I'm genuine.

  • david3142david3142 Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Even if it is real this is not a coin that a Buff collector would want to own. The strike is awful and it has a big scratch on the buffalo. Return and get your money back!

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,707 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 24, 2018 8:48AM

    @tennbjj said:
    Not a buffalo expert by any means, but one more odd thing is the alignment of "US OF A" on the back.

    It may just be the angle of your coin photo, but the U in United and last A in America should line up as shown in the bottom coin, but dont seem to on your coin:

    Also the I in United looks too skinny at the base, and the O in "OF" looks way wrong, but maybe there were varieties I am unaware of

    Where is the fold of flesh between his private part and hind leg, or is it just a different die?

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,853 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with the acid treated and then buffed out comment by Lance.

    bob :)

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  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @oih82w8 said:
    Does the mint mark look a little...BIG?

    It looks like an added mint mark to me. Looks to be the wrong style S. I'd like to see a magnified image once you get it. The correct mintmark is the same as that of the 1909-S VDB..........short and boxy, with a small flaw in the upper loop.

    Check the edge where the mintmark is for tooling. Although embossed mintmarks are common for this date, they usually are applied to higher grade specimens.

    It is still worth checking.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:
    I agree with the acid treated and then buffed out comment by Lance.

    bob :)

    I don't see either.

  • slider23slider23 Posts: 659 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 24, 2018 9:02AM

    The fields would give me consern the coin may be a counterfeit as there are a number of cast bumps and imperfections.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @slider23 said:
    The fields would give me consern the coin may be a counterfeit as there are a number of cast bumps and imperfections.

    Are you referring to the die wear?

  • OldEastsideOldEastside Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm thinking it is genuine, once corroded Nickel that has had about a half dozen sessions with Nic-O-Lene and the wire brush that comes with it

    Steve

    Promote the Hobby
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 14,025 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 24, 2018 9:53AM

    It’s not a fake coin. Nor do I see any acid treatment or buffing. Looks like a normally worn down Buff, with issues like that scratch.
    I must also mention a weak strike.

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,934 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My first thought was 'real but whizzed', but it could also be that it looks odd due to extreme die fatigue... I'm in the 'it's genuine' camp.

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  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks to me like a cleaned coin from a very advanced die state and possibly some kind of damage to the die. Not 100% sure, tho. That Mint mark does bother me some.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks like maybe it was heavily corroded at one time (possibly "dug") and then polished.

    Moonlight Mint
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 24, 2018 2:39PM

    @crazyhounddog said:
    It’s not a fake coin. Nor do I see any acid treatment or buffing. Looks like a normally worn down Buff, with issues like that scratch.
    I must also mention a weak strike.

    I agree with this. However, the only way to know for sure is to have a magnified image. The coin looks genuine with worn dies and a very flat strike. The only indication of alteration is the rims appear to be rounded in places so it is possible the coin was cleaned at one time.

  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good luck !!! :)

    Timbuk3
  • WildIdeaWildIdea Posts: 1,877 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When in doubt, hobo it out!

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @crazyhounddog said:
    It’s not a fake coin. Nor do I see any acid treatment or buffing. Looks like a normally worn down Buff, with issues like that scratch.
    I must also mention a weak strike.

    I agree with this. However, the only way to know for sure is to have a magnified image. The coin looks genuine with worn dies and a very flat strike. The only indication of alteration is the rims appear to be rounded in places so it is possible the coin was cleaned at one time.

    EDIT: I keep comin back to this coin. I was able to magnify the reverse. The coin is genuine, it is struck with worn dies, and exhibits a flat strike. I have changed my mind about its originality. IMO, the coin has been buffed.

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The obv looks really rough on the side of the face of the native American. What's up with that? Peace Roy

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  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Namvet69 said:
    The obv looks really rough on the side of the face of the native American. What's up with that? Peace Roy

    OPSI marks. Original Planchet Surface Impact marks that were not struck out.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would like to thank all for their informative and helpful comments. I purchased this coin mainly out of curiosity(and its the last coin I need for the registry, if the other 2 grade as I feel sure they will), I was so sure that an acid bath of some type had been used on this coin, but only one or two others felt the same way and when I thought the damage may have occurred from a weak strike, it became a lesson in coin strikes and I became attached to it. I never thought it to be counterfeit, but after reading so many that did, I became truly worried of that eventuality.
    It is not an attractive coin, but I have always been attracted to coins that have been different due to strike, alloy impurities and press errors and if it comes to be that this coin is not counterfeit, I would be satisfied. I wonder what the worn die in its late die state looked like. That I would love to have seen. Thanks again for your interest and comments.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    genuine with altered surfaces and then some

  • bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 24, 2018 9:16PM

    I kind of in the acid wash group also.

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