PCGS collaborates with Hugh Wood Insurance for reduced rates for collectors

lkeigwin

At today's ANA PCGS luncheon we learned that PCGS has struck a deal with Hugh Wood Insurance to provide discounts to collectors of PCGS-graded coins.

It will be a few weeks before details are worked out and the program is live. But the gist of it is that HW will offer significant discounts for policyholders who insure their PCGS coins documented in PCGS Set Registry® (the inventory software). This, according to a Hugh Wood spokesperson at the show.

Instead of asserting a collection value of $200 or 500k, let's say, and having a premium assigned according to that value (and other factors -- e.g., storage location, travel, etc.) Hugh Wood can assess asset value using PCGS's database.

The upside is the lower premium cost (the insurer and underwriters know exactly what the collection consists of). The downside is that only PCGS-graded coins are insured.

This is a win-win for the two companies. It feels good for collectors too, depending on actual premium savings.

Is it?
Lance.

CoinCrazyPA

Cool, thanks for the heads up.

messydesk

I'll have to ask them if it's the same deal as ANA members have, because I wasn't able to determine that from the handout at the lunch.

bidask

Very creative ,,,,,!

ricko

Interesting concept.... Could work well for both sides. Speaks well to the innovation of PCGS for their customers. Cheers, RickO

golden

I will be sure to check out the details.

jmlanzaf

My concern would be that the pcgs price guide is high. So if you inflate my value but decrease the rate, don't I and up at the same place

LindeDad

@jmlanzaf said:
My concern would be that the pcgs price guide is high. So if you inflate my value but decrease the rate, don't I and up at the same place

Have you tried buying PCGS graded coins in the open market. I have found only a few at lower than the guide. And usually those have a reason for being discounted.

Goldminers

The PCGS price guide is just that,...a guide. I find sometimes I pay more, sometimes less. I look at auction results, past history, updated population reports, etc., and just how much I want it, to determine value.

But as far as the insurance being based on it and with PCGS, I like the idea, as it is much better guide for value than just guesses, opinions, and lawyers arguing.

Thanks for the heads up as it may be something worth a closer look.

jmlanzaf

@LindeDad said:

@jmlanzaf said:
My concern would be that the pcgs price guide is high. So if you inflate my value but decrease the rate, don't I and up at the same place

Have you tried buying PCGS graded coins in the open market. I have found only a few at lower than the guide. And usually those have a reason for being discounted.

Yes. I'm a part-time dealer.

I watched hours of the Heritage ANA auction - virtually everything sold well below PCGS price guide which they display in the auction window.

If you want just a few examples or random coins from random series [Note: I did not skip any. I just listed the ones I randomly clicked on, making sure all were in PCGS holders]:

1936 York commemorative PCGS MS66- PCGS guide $215, Heritage hammer+juice $156
1795 half cent XF 40 - PCGS guide $6900, Heritage $5280
1811 half cent AU55 CAC - PCGS guide $23,500 , Heritage $13,200
1793 chain cent VF25 - PCGS $41,000, Heritage $18,600
1913-S Type 2 Buffalo Nickel MS66 - PcGS $4250, Heritage $2880
1795 Flowing Hair $ VF30 PCGS - PCGS $7450, Heritage $5760
1883-CC Morgan $ MS67 - PCGS guide $3900, Heritage $4560

I don't know what series you collect, but I found ONE coin that went for over the price guide.

golden

@jmlanzaf said:

@LindeDad said:

@jmlanzaf said:
My concern would be that the pcgs price guide is high. So if you inflate my value but decrease the rate, don't I and up at the same place

Have you tried buying PCGS graded coins in the open market. I have found only a few at lower than the guide. And usually those have a reason for being discounted.

Yes. I'm a part-time dealer.

I watched hours of the Heritage ANA auction - virtually everything sold well below PCGS price guide which they display in the auction window.

If you want just a few examples or random coins from random series [Note: I did not skip any. I just listed the ones I randomly clicked on, making sure all were in PCGS holders]:

1936 York commemorative PCGS MS66- PCGS guide $215, Heritage hammer+juice $156
1795 half cent XF 40 - PCGS guide $6900, Heritage $5280
1811 half cent AU55 CAC - PCGS guide $23,500 , Heritage $13,200
1793 chain cent VF25 - PCGS $41,000, Heritage $18,600
1913-S Type 2 Buffalo Nickel MS66 - PcGS $4250, Heritage $2880
1795 Flowing Hair $ VF30 PCGS - PCGS $7450, Heritage $5760
1883-CC Morgan $ MS67 - PCGS guide $3900, Heritage $4560

I don't know what series you collect, but I found ONE coin that went for over the price guide.

Out of curiosity I pulled up two random coins . The 1793 Chain and the 1795 $1. Neither of these coins were even close to being nice. That is why they brought what they did.

Goldminers

Not as much demand these days for 200+ year old coins unless they are the unicorns and look really exceptional or in top pop.

I have been forced to pay above price guide on a few coins lately to get something that just does not come on the market except for every several years that I really wanted.

But I will agree, most of my coins I have paid below the PCGS price guide for them.

jmlanzaf

@golden said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@LindeDad said:

@jmlanzaf said:
My concern would be that the pcgs price guide is high. So if you inflate my value but decrease the rate, don't I and up at the same place

Have you tried buying PCGS graded coins in the open market. I have found only a few at lower than the guide. And usually those have a reason for being discounted.

Yes. I'm a part-time dealer.

I watched hours of the Heritage ANA auction - virtually everything sold well below PCGS price guide which they display in the auction window.

If you want just a few examples or random coins from random series [Note: I did not skip any. I just listed the ones I randomly clicked on, making sure all were in PCGS holders]:

1936 York commemorative PCGS MS66- PCGS guide $215, Heritage hammer+juice $156
1795 half cent XF 40 - PCGS guide $6900, Heritage $5280
1811 half cent AU55 CAC - PCGS guide $23,500 , Heritage $13,200
1793 chain cent VF25 - PCGS $41,000, Heritage $18,600
1913-S Type 2 Buffalo Nickel MS66 - PcGS $4250, Heritage $2880
1795 Flowing Hair $ VF30 PCGS - PCGS $7450, Heritage $5760
1883-CC Morgan $ MS67 - PCGS guide $3900, Heritage $4560

I don't know what series you collect, but I found ONE coin that went for over the price guide.

Out of curiosity I pulled up two random coins . The 1793 Chain and the 1795 $1. Neither of these coins were even close to being nice. That is why they brought what they did.

I don't care what they sold for. You will now be buying insurance at the higher number. That's my point.

And, by the way, the PCGS price guide is not or at least should not be for premium coins in the grade, it should be average for the grade. Although, take a look at the 1811 CAC - sold for half the PCGS guide even with the John Albanese seal of approval.

I never use the PCGS price guide to price anything either buying or selling. But that is not my point. My point is that if you get a PCGS/Wood discounted rate on an inflated price, it will end up being no cheaper than buying it direct from Wood.

In addition, since the special insurance will only apply to registry set coins in PCGS holders, will you need a separate Wood policy for raw or NGC coins?

ranshdow

Not sure about this. If my $6100 coin with a guide value of $4000 is insured under this program, what would they pay me if it were stolen? And, do I get to pick and choose whether I'm paid my purchase price or guide value for each stolen coin?

ms70

I would imagine more specifically the insurance would include coins in "My Inventory" since not all of one's coins may be in a registry.

Sometimes we upgrade and a coin is replaced in the registry slot, but the prior coin remains in the "My Inventory" section.

ms70

@ranshdow said:
Not sure about this. If my $6100 coin with a guide value of $4000 is insured under this program, what would they pay me if it were stolen? And, do I get to pick and choose whether I'm paid my purchase price or guide value for each stolen coin?

I imagine if you supply the insurance company with PCGS cert #'s, they may use the PCGS guide anyway, even if you're not in the registry.

Goldminers

Well if they actually have access to all details of the registry and you put a purchase price in there in your personal database, will they value it at the price paid, or current PCGS guide value?

Or how to they decide between the two?

Cougar1978

I refer to CW, CPG, and PCGS guides.

BryceM

Interesting. One more reason to shop for coins living in the holders of our host. The competition and their registry program seem to be losing ground.

Using the Price Guide isn't perfect. No appraisal ever is, but you've got to use something and this is a great place to start. Obviously, an entire collection of wild toners will need a different system of appraisal.

Barndog

saw the info, saw the lack of details, would be interested in it if the details are published and meaningful

Bochiman

It's a good step.
The problem that I, and maybe some others, would have, is for any toned coins that are "worth" multiples of PCGS guide prices.

Obviously, super nice coins, for the grade, usually trade above PCGS guide as well.

So, it would still behoove owners to keep detailed pics and notes/receipts for these types of coins.

On the flip side, obviously, if something bad DID happen, for many coins, particularly moderns, the rated price, using the guide, is MUCH higher than market replacement prices, when the coins are available.

lkeigwin

My guess is that, as with any insurance claim, documentation of value that is not ordinary will be important. So it behooves collectors to keep good records of prices paid, sale prices achieved, etc. Photographs of special coins help.

Expect a debate and be prepared for it.

I can't imagine any insurance that pleases policyholders completely. Do your homework. Document what you have.
Lance.

ms70

I don't think it would be handled any different than a car insurance claim. Aren't they insuring the value of the coin at the time of loss, not what you paid? If they are insuring the coins for what you paid then they wouldn't need the price guide.

Bochiman

The issue with that is that, if you paid MORE than guide was at the time, BECAUSE of superiority (think gold CAC or superb toning...things that are usually a heavy premium that most collectors will understand), then even at the time of potential loss, they are likely to STILL be worth more than the guide value....true?

That's why I say to keep good pictures and good records/receipts, to show if something is honestly worth more than guide value at any particular time.

Non-modern, non-common, coins aren't like, say, a Honda Accord. You can't just go out and do an exact and easy replacement and one coin may well be worth substantially more than the same grade/year/MM of the same type. Kind of like a 2016 Accord EX-L with 5,000 miles (pristine with no dings/scratches/etc as it was always garaged and cared for) vs a 2016 Accord EX-L with 50,000 miles (and dings/scratches as it sat outside and the kid who was driving it didn't care about it)
(yes, I know there are "guides" for the condition values due to the above....just trying to give an idea that most can relate to though, so I didn't use those guide values)