1883 proof nickels
RogerB
Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
Interesting letter about issuing proof shield nickels for 1883. Note that Snowden does not mention that change in diameter -- presumably it was considered unimportant at the time.
Mint of the United States at Philadelphia, Pa.,
SUPERINTENDENT’S OFFICE
February 5, 1883
Hon. H. C. Burchard
Director of the Mint
Washington, D. C.
Sir,
I am somewhat embarrassed as to whether the silver and minor coin proof sets, to be issued during the remainder of the calendar year 1883, should contain only the new 5¢ copper-nickel coin, or both the old and the new, both having been issued this year for general circulation, and sets containing only one not being a complete historical record of the coinage of this year.
There seems to be a propriety in issuing both, to gratify such persons and Numismatic Societies as may desire them, and also present speculation on the part of coin-dealers, who, in anticipation of the change, have already bought nearly all the mirror-coin proof sets of 1883, containing only the old 5¢ nickel. It would seem to be no more than just and right that legitimate coin collectors should be permitted to complete their sets at the regular rates. There is, as you are aware, no change in the weight of alloy of the 5c piece, but only in the design, making it in my judgement only a question of propriety as to whether I should include both or not.
My desire is to deal fairly with the public, and avoid any just cause of complaint, and I therefore write to submit the matter to your judgement, and would be thankful for an expression of your views.
Very respectfully
Your obedient servant
A. Loudon Snowden,
Superintendent
Comments
Nice find.
Showing concern for collectors in 1883, interesting. Thanks.
I wrote an article for Coin World several years ago that showed small mintages of circulation coins during the 1870s and 1880s were the Mint's attempt to prevent speculation in proof coins by collectors.
The whole public proof coin arrangement was in response to collectors in the latter 1850s wanting proofs (or master coins) - a special looking coin - for their collections.
Interesting letter. Of course, in a matter of weeks another change would be coming.
That was nice of him, cool that they addressed them pesky flippers back then
Steve
From the 1830s to about 1910 the US Mint encouraged coin collecting and discouraged speculation. Proofs were made for open sale to anyone and although dealers were accommodated with larger orders, they got no special deals. During the First Great Depression collecting was again encouraged as an inexpensive and informative past time, along with amateur science, radio, electronics and other activities.
@RogerB said: "Note that Snowden does not mention that change in diameter -- presumably it was considered unimportant at the time."
Thanks Roger!
I never knew the size of the nickel was changed until just now. Even checked my Red Book.
The blanks were cut thinner and greater in diameter. The purpose was to improve the quality of planchets and extend die life with less cracking. Dies were also made in very low relief. Within a couple of years, 5-cent planchets were being provided by Scoville under annual contract.
"Mint of the United States at Philadelphia, Pa.,
SUPERINTENDENT’S OFFICE
December 15, 1882
Hon. H. C. Burchard
Director of the Mint
Washington, D. C.
Sir,
I have the honor to send by today’s Express 25 Specimens of the proposed new 5¢ piece, in
which the diameter of the piece has been increased from 2 centimeters to 21 millimeters.
The design is very chaste and the relief very low so that the Coin comes up very readily under the dies, which is an important point.
Under the Coinage Act of 1873, Section 3517 the devices and legends upon our mint Coins is to consist the obverse of an impression “emblematic of Liberty, the inscription of the word Liberty, and the year of the Coinage, and upon the reverse the inscription of the United States of America, ‘E Pluribus Unum,’ and the designation of the value of the Coin.” This coin complies literally with the terms of the law, which the present 5¢ piece does not. In diameter, design, and workmanship, I think on inspection, it will be found to be one of the most creditable coins ever issued by this Mint.
I trust that the proposed change and authority to issue this coin, with the devices and inscriptions therein, will be approved by yourself and The Honorable Secretary of the Treasury.
Very respectfully
Your obedient servant
A. Loudon Snowden,
Superintendent"
[Volunteer transcription]
Are these letters posted at NNP? If so, what is the trick to find them.
An admirable concern for collectors, far better than the disdain shown for them with the 1971 and 1972 Mint Sets, that could not be bothered to include dollar coins, or the 1979 Mint Set, which left out the S-Mint dollars!
The 1999 Mint sets did not include dollars either, but at least they have the excuse that the dollars were unexpectedly struck late in the year after the Mint sets were sold.
No. I haven't sent them to NNP because the ones I have are only a small part of the group of letters in the archive box. Maybe I should explain more ---
Most of my 200k + document pages were collected by me either for specific research projects, or because I felt they were interesting, or as a base for a potential future article or book chapter. Therefore, they are a biased snapshot of the actual entry and box content. Further, in some instances, I did not make an effort to complete research on a subject, so the documents I have (and sometimes post) are an incomplete, and possibly misleading, sample.
Hope that helps. If members want copies of the originals, just PM me with your email.
This seems a good place to ask this...why are our coins specified in millimeters? Seems very odd. It's probably well-know, just not by me...
http://macrocoins.com
Our present US Mint is encouraging coin collecting too !
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Most coin sizes were originally specified in 16ths of an inch. The small cent is 12/16ths or 3/4 inch. The standard dollar is 24/16ths or 1-1/2 inch. Later these were converted to metric equivalents, rounded to the nearest 1/10th, of 19.1 mm and 38.1 mm.
Yes, but it seems this conversion happened pretty early in our history, at least before 1883. Yet we did not convert to the metric system. Was it done due to collaboration with European mints?
http://macrocoins.com
RE: Metric dimensions.
During the 1850s there was considerable interest in the metric system as developed and promoted by France. It was logical, rationally based and very easy to use. There were multiple international conferences on standardization of international contacts and these included both coinage and measurements.
After the Civil War, the US adopted the metric system, but did not mandate its use. The Mint cooperated with this ideal by specifying new dimensions in millimeters rather than 32nd of an inch. Other Mint actions included adjusting the weight of dimes quarters and halves to make them exact fractions of the 5-Franc silver coin. For the new five-cent coin, the weight was specified at 5 grams. Under the proposed Cu-Ni minor coin system the other coins - 3-cent and 1-cent - would have weighed 3 and 1 grams respectively. This was also considered a convenience for the public who would be able to use common coins as a weight standard for small weight-based transactions.
Many pattern pieces of the period are metric-based, particularly the Goloid and Metric series.
By the late 1880s, nearly all other countries were on a complete metric system - and that included changing from Troy ounces to grams and kilograms for weighing gold and silver.
I find it interesting that the term "coin dealer(s)" are mentioned, even more so in a letter from the mint. It would be very fascinating to see a coin dealer's display case of that time.
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Thanks for the interesting letters Roger, and the associated history. I often wonder if the U.S. will ever convert to the metric system.... I doubt it very much. Cheers, RickO
Thanks Roger. I should have known this, and it nicely explains the metric pattern issues. I need to do more research!
http://macrocoins.com
From the period beginning about 1836 (FE dollar) the number of people wanting coins from the mint increased substantially. Along with collectors and museums, came persons wanting to buy for resale -- "coin dealers."
More interest was attracted as the Mint Director built a specialized Washington Cabinet of medals and actively solicited donations and exchanges. By the 1860s, most collectors had been accommodated by regular Master Coin (proof coin) issues, but resellers persisted. During and just after the Civil War, these dealers became pests, often badgering employees and Mint officers for patterns and other unusual pieces. In the 1870s and 80s, as I mentioned in an earlier post, the Mint actively tried to prevent speculation by dealers,although they were accommodated by bulk sales of proof coins.
It is only in the mid-20th century and later that we find the US Mint offering discounts and other favors to coin resellers. Today, they are the majority of mint customers by volume.
rmpsrmps -- See "May 17, 1866 Report No 62 in the 39th Congress, 1st Session of the US House of Representatives, which accompanied the bill that became the Metric Act of 1866."