Question for the copper collectors!
erwindoc
Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭✭✭
How much verdigris will get your coin straight graded vs. problem graded on a 150 year old large copper coin???
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Let’s see the coin.
Some green ancient coins are straight graded and very desirable. Those are said to have a green "patina" as verdigris id a bad word when it comes to copper coins.
I've always viewed green on early US copper as corrosion and I steer clear.
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I look at verdigris on copper just like PVC on silver and it doesn't frighten me. On sub 200 year old copper you do see it making it into straight graded holders. I've purchased such pieces knowing right away I'd have to crack conserve and resubmit. Verdigris which is crystalizing in height instead of spreading sideways encrusting the surfaces is the easiest to remove. The latter takes many more months soaking but will in time come off.
Total verdigris color is nice looking but if a hunk falls off the underlying copper surface can be nasty. I dig up colonial copper and large cents with varying degrees of verdigris all the time. Just a fact of life for me. A nice brown toned old copper coin is more desirable for sure. Peace Roy
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I guess my answer would be....it depends.
I have seen some of the what I'll call 'light stuff' straight graded, little traces around the leaves or other detailed areas....most of which is likely still soft and could be removed by soaking and judicious use of a rose-thorn type of tool.
The hard crusty 'crystallized' stuff - I think very little makes into straight grade holders. I suppose they would be a little more forgiving on chain cents, etc. though.
If someone has examples of this in straight grade top tier holders, please share - I would like to see some. Perhaps I've just mentally blocked out such things from my memory.
That can actually begin to grow after having been slabbed... As there's a few pieces of copper with verdigris that I've found previous auction photos of in the same holder without prior growth.
I consider verdigris nasty stuff (especially since we had to constantly clean it off of fittings on the ship in the Navy).... I would avoid it, or if I found it on one of my coins, I would remove it. As I recall, a commercially offered product was Verdi-Care....This worked well. Cheers, RickO
Experimenting on some cents from pocket change the chemicals in Verdi-Care altered the color of each. It might be good for something of low value that was ground salvaged, but I wouldn't recommend Verdi-Care for any collector coin worth more than face value.
@Broadstruck....Thanks for that information.... It was about 18 years ago that I tried Verdi-Care on some cents.... so really did not remember that point.... it did change the color, but removed the verdigris....Yep, would not recommend it on collector value coins. **edit...by the way, I was initially thinking the product was called Verdigone....was there a product with that name?
Cheers, RickO
There's no such thing as fast copper conservation as even many of the coins, tokens, medals which NCS has conserved look stripped and when seen again years later have turned. Lets put it this way if you send any copper out for conservation and you get it back rapidly in under a few months it's like holding a hot potato.
@ricko, What did you use in the Navy a steel wire brush?
@Broadstruck....No, we used rags and Brasso.....Well, there were a couple of brass fittings topside (not many due to elemental exposure), and they would get a brushing prior to Brasso. Cheers, RickO
**That can actually begin to grow after having been slabbed... **
Makes sense....it may start as minor when slabbed, but w/o any neutralizing, and access to ambient environment since the slabs are not airtight, may get nastier over time.
There's a lot of factors at play and once there's contamination present it will grow more rapidly in a limited ability to breathe environment.
@Erwindoc,
Surely you're not referring to two cent pieces, so what copper coins from the US were large in 1868?
Do you mean a late date large cent from the 1840's or 1850's perhaps? If so, PCGS is tougher on these later large cents than they are with earlier issues when it comes to verdigris. But really, it's a subjective thing, and I'd need to see the coin itself to make a more substantive assessment.
Hope this helps...Mike
**@Erwindoc,
Surely you're not referring to two cent pieces, so what copper coins from the US were large in 1868?
**
I was going to mention this also, but then I remembered he cherried a tough Canadian large cent variety awhile back, so thought maybe he was referring to that one, since he didn't specify US...
Hey in 1868 which I remember like yesterday 2C copper was considered large not semi large or medium
Right on Greg!
The coin in question is a very valuable variety of 1859 Canadian cent. It is on the way to our host now, so Ill be anxious to hear their opinion on grade. It might have had a bit of verdigris hiding in the rim letters when I looked at it closely but I didn't think it was severe enough to warrant a details grade, but then copper is not my series. I don't take good photos or I would have posted it.