Blue Ribbon
CoinBreaux
Posts: 46 ✭✭
I know Blue Ribbon has been off the market for a couple of years, but does anyone know why? There was and still is demand for it, so I’m guessing the company didn’t go bankrupt.
Thanks!
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I think it's called Coin Care now but I don't know the composition. It is for sale on Ebay and at Wizard Supply. I do think the old stuff was better and I've kept a bottle but only use the modern product - Care.
At NCS, we saved the Blue Ribbon and several other "original" (as first made chemicals) for the "important" pieces. One chemical changed color with each fresh batch we ordered but the supplier claimed each color (from dark in the beginning to much lighter) was the same. I say NUTS!
I remember that someone said it was taken off because it was carcinogenic.
That is completely false.
The original formulation had trike (trichloroethylene) in it, which has been illegal for some time.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
I don't know what the original Care had in it, but the original Blue Ribbon contained
), so Regulated was close, just a difference in the number of bonds and H-atoms.
1,1,1-Trichloroethane (reading it right off the label
The newer stuff is pretty lame - smells and does about as much as a light machine oil.
As for safety concerns, there appear to be plenty, although a little here and there on coins doesn't worry me:
Although not as toxic as many similar compounds, inhaled or ingested 1,1,1-trichloroethane does act as a central nervous system depressant and can cause effects similar to those of ethanol intoxication, including dizziness, confusion, and, in sufficiently high concentrations, unconsciousness and death.[7] Fatal poisonings and illnesses linked to intentional inhalation of trichloroethane have been reported. Prolonged skin contact with the liquid can result in the removal of fats from the skin, resulting in chronic skin irritation.
I don't see anything about carcinogenic for Trichloroethane, but for trichloroethylene: The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) classify trichloroethylene as a human carcinogen.
Tricolorethylene is 1,1,1-Trichloroethane. It is the old archaic name for it. Like Methylene chloride is Dichloromethane. Ever heard of a double-bond with only one Carbon atom?
I used to routinely run analyses on all commercial solvents when I worked QC at a distribution terminal. If I had a Gas Chromatograph, I would be able to duplicate the product in no time at all, assuming that I had an unadulterated unopened original sample to start with.
I knew it would happen.
Lanolin and whatever "fast evaporator" you can get to dissolve it in for lowered viscosity. Trichloro-trifluoro-ethane, trichloro-fluoro-ethane, wjhatever you can bribe a refrigeration guy to sell you in violation of EPA regs..
Tricolorethylene is 1,1,1-Trichloroethane.
Incorrect. Trichoroethylene is trichloroethylene. 1,1,1-Trichloroethane is 1,1,1-trichloroethane.
I knew it would happen.
Ever heard of a double-bond with only one Carbon atom?
I'll respectively disagree that these compounds are the same.... carbon atoms can have double bonds and single bonds.....now tell me which one is represented by 'ene' and which one is 'ane'....
That's my point, Walkerguy21D. Trichoroethyene, or "trichor" was commonly used in dry cleaning. I don't know if it still is, but probably not.
1,1,1 Trichoroethane is a great degreaser and is aliphatic, and was commonly known as "1,1,1 triethane.
The two fluoro compounds mentione by ColonelJessup are faster-evaporating cousins, formerly used in refrigeration and air conditioning.
I wouldn't use trichloroethylene on a coin, especially copper. The others - maybe. Lanolin sounds like a good idea, as long as it's USDA grade or such.
I knew it would happen.
Someone told me that "Trike" with the yellow label that came in a rectangular can was the same stuff formerly used in auto air conditioners before it was outlawed.
Nope. It was not. I'd be afraid of using trichloroethylene on most coins, especially copper because I think it might be too aggressive in terms of its cleaning and degreasing capabilities. I would think that 1,1,1-triethane might be a little milder, although they are both great cleaners/degreasers.
I knew it would happen.
Tricholorethylene is NOT 1,1,1 Trichlorethane. Tricholorethylene IS carcinogenic, however,1,1,1 Trichlorethane has NEVER been carcinogenic and no studies have found connections between it and cancer.
Similar, but definitely different.
@CoinBreaux:
Your post is also incorrect. In addition, you are showing two completely different compound structures and calling them the same, which they aren't.
I knew it would happen.
I never said that they were the same. The top one is 1,1,1 Trichloroethane and the bottom is Trichloroethylene.
I am not incorrect, they are two different things.
From wiki:
The chemical compound trichloroethylene is a halocarbon commonly used as an industrial solvent. It is a clear non-flammable liquid with a sweet smell. It should not be confused with the similar 1,1,1-trichloroethane, which is commonly known as chlorothene.
Whoops, sorry. I was looking at the quote that you referenced. Sorry.
I knew it would happen.
No problem
Take it from a retired chemical engineer (me). @CoinBreaux is correct.
See my sketch below - two similar, but totally different molecules.
Edited to add: Tricholorethylene obviously has two fewer hydrogen atoms.
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There is no such compound as 1,1,1-trichloroethylene; it would have to be 1,1,2-trichlorothylene. Healthwise, I'd be leery of either one. It's all about the anes, enes and ynes!
This is why chemical engineers don’t get invited to parties.
Smitten with DBLCs.
We party alright....just with other engineers....
So where does one get pure lanolin? I don’t have a sheep in the backyard.
This is incorrect. The nomenclature for organic chemistry tells you a lot of structural information. The -ane suffix means that it is an alkane and is fully saturated/has only single carbon-carbon bonds. The -ene suffix means that it is an alkene/unsaturated and has at least one carbon-carbon double bond.
We create the fuel for the parties.
Our best experiment in unit operations summer lab was the distillation of an ethanol and water mixture in a 19 tray fractional distillation column that was about 20 feet tall. This mixture forms an azeotrope at about 95.6% ethanol which is the highest "proof" you can get out of a column. (I'd quote all the thermodynamics, but I'd lose this nerdy crowd). 95% ethanol is 190 proof. Now being smart and industrious college students, we figured the profs wouldn't miss a few gallons of distillate. So we went across the street to the convenience store and each bought a gallon of milk. Why milk? Because we wanted the plastic container. Once the milk was disposed of and the container rinsed out, we each took home a gallon of hooch that day. That hooch was enjoyed by other engineers and our lady friends - no liberal arts sharing occurred as they couldn't understand. I'll spare you the details of how much we had to cut it to make it drinkable.
Oh yeah, we also made our own beer at 7 cents a longneck with 7-8% alcohol content. All natural ingredients and never got a hangover. I brewed enough to bring to parties when invited. And I was invited to plenty of parties.
Wine, we did that too, but only the champagne was a hit. The ladies loved that.
So much for not being invited to parties...…...
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
So then, explain "Methylene chloride". A chemist would like to hear the explanation. Then "Liver of sulfur" and "Sugar of lead".
It is standard in industry to use IUPAC nomenclature for organic compounds. There are a few examples where chemicals have traditional names that are sometimes used, but the one chemical in this thread is not one of those. Others in this thread have already sketched out the structural differences for you.
http://www.chem.uiuc.edu/GenChemReferences/nomenclature_rules.html
I don't know about the rest of you but I'm enjoying our chemistry lesson although I've had to read it a few times and do further reading on the internet. I have an idea for a new discussion. Hopefully, an OT subject will be allowed to run.
OK, you’ve beaten me into submission!
Smitten with DBLCs.
I love azeotropes. and HETPs. Distillations and chromatography can be interesting.
I knew it would happen.
My old bottle of Blue Ribbon says it contains 1,1,1-trichloriethane (misspelled trichloroethane?) and is manufactured with CFC-113. What's the CFC-113? I haven't used this in maybe 15 or 20 years.
Strangely enough Pabst Blue Ribbin was brewed with the very same ingredients. I have plenty of hangovers to prove it.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Your undergraduate school sounds a lot like mine. Did they teach you how to freebase cocaine in organic chem lab too? We never did the freebasing one empirically though.
As Elton John sang in "Rocket Man": "all this science I don't understand."
How about we all just agree not to clean our coins.
@cameonut2011
"Your undergraduate school sounds a lot like mine. Did they teach you how to freebase cocaine in organic chem lab too? We never did the freebasing one empirically though."
Nah, the closest we got was extracting caffeine from tea by putting the brewed tea in a flask, pulling a vacuum on the rotovap, and allowing the pure caffeine to deposit on a cold finger via sublimation. Yielded nice white crystals we used to make the '70's version of Red Bull.
At Wisconsin, the crowd was mostly fueled by ethanol in various forms. Those were the days - was a party school back then, and still a party school today (#1 in the 2017 Princeton Review).
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Wow, the manufacturer couldn't even get 1,1,1-trichloroethane right on their own label. No wonder there's been confusion. And CFC-113 is Freon, as Colonel Jessup suggested earlier. The chorofluorocarbons are pretty good solvents in their own right, and fast evaporators as well.
I've always been told that Blue Ribbon is a good conditioner, and that it doesn't harm copper.
So, what you have is some very fast-evaporating solvents that are good at dissolving dirt, grease, oils, etc. combined with a small amount of a high quality "conditioner" - maybe lanolin, but maybe something with a high quality refined hydrocarbon oil like sewing machine oil or a synthetic oil like Mobil 1 that protects a metal surface and is possibly more stable over the long run than a non-uniform organic mixture of sterols and fatty acids that composes lanolin.
Thank-you for posting the pic of that bottle.
So, fellow chemists and ChemE's - what works best? Users of Blue Ribbon - what do you observe when you are using Blue Ribbon? Does transfer dirt & grime onto a Q-Tip (without affecting the patina) and then redistribute a nice thin layer of oil over the coin's surface? That's what I'm imagining.
I knew it would happen.
Having been a failed chemical engineering student, I got lost in this discussion about 25 posts ago.
The one conclusion I can make is that I’m glad I never messed with “Care” and “Blue Ribbon.” According the some of the copper collectors I have know, “Blue Ribbon” was a notch below “Care.”
@Cameonut So much for not being invited to parties...……
What are you doing next weekend?
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We can disagree about absolutely everything, and usually do.
Old traditional names, some from hundreds of years ago. Methylene refers to a group consisting of 1 carbon and 2 hydrogens, CH2. It's rather reactive and combines with itself to give ethylene, hence the "derived" name methylene. Sugar of lead is lead(II) aka plumbous acetate, named after it's sweetish taste. Liver of sulfur is an old term probably connected to "essence of" in some way.
So, is there anything dangerous in the old Blue Ribbon?
Not any more so than in gasoline. And it is in much lower concentrations. Just be careful and don't drink it and you will live a long life. Sorry, can't promise the prosperous part.
Exactly, so chemical compounds have more than one name, which is the point I wanted to make.
1,1,2-Trichloro-1,2,2-trifluoroethane. The CFC-113 visits shorthand number. It is one of a number of compounds known as Freon.
Gee thanks, I'm having flashbacks to organic chemistry now.
Methylene Chloride (plus wax, to slow down the evaporation) was commonly found in the old paint strippers. It was pretty nasty. Heavier than air. Semi-dangerous.
I knew it would happen.
So, is there anything dangerous in the old Blue Ribbon?
Just curious, did you read my post about this yesterday?
Yes! The folks who use it improperly and ruin coins.
Not a problem as long as all of the names are correct.