Gotta ask you a question. When do you think they were wrapped with a mechanical rolling machine? Any idea? No guess? Then let google and the US patent office be your friend.
The rolls you see on ebay are all wrapped by some sort of machine, can we agree? Well, a quick search shows that mechanical wrapping machines were invented in the 1930's. Of course this wasn't wide spread all around the country instantly, 'eh? So, the need for quick wrapping of coins came along with the need by casinos in Nevada and Montana (mostly). It was great to get a bag of 1,000 silver dollars into the casino and then have an employee wrap them in rolls of ten or twenty and sometimes 25 or even 50. Sure made it a lot easier for the change girl to help their customers. But, this didn't happen until the 1950's or 1960's. Since silver was gone by '65 what are the odds that the roll was wrapped by a casino and remains until this day?
Bank wrapped, sure they did that and they just did it for convenience and rolled whatever was in the teller's drawers or the loose dollars in the vault. No thought process as to what should be on the end and how pretty it should be because 70 years from now someone will find this roll on ebay and want it! Nah.
It's almost all a scam. I say almost because there are 'original' rolls of coins from back in the 50's and 60's still out there but you won't have access to them.
Here is a mechanical wrapping machine with a patent date of 1947: https://patents.google.com/patent/US2574660
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
@AUandAG said:
Gotta ask you a question. When do you think they were wrapped with a mechanical rolling machine? Any idea? No guess? Then let google and the US patent office be your friend.
The rolls you see on ebay are all wrapped by some sort of machine, can we agree? Well, a quick search shows that mechanical wrapping machines were invented in the 1930's. Of course this wasn't wide spread all around the country instantly, 'eh? So, the need for quick wrapping of coins came along with the need by casinos in Nevada and Montana (mostly). It was great to get a bag of 1,000 silver dollars into the casino and then have an employee wrap them in rolls of ten or twenty and sometimes 25 or even 50. Sure made it a lot easier for the change girl to help their customers. But, this didn't happen until the 1950's or 1960's. Since silver was gone by '65 what are the odds that the roll was wrapped by a casino and remains until this day?
Bank wrapped, sure they did that and they just did it for convenience and rolled whatever was in the teller's drawers or the loose dollars in the vault. No thought process as to what should be on the end and how pretty it should be because 70 years from now someone will find this roll on ebay and want it! Nah.
It's almost all a scam. I say almost because there are 'original' rolls of coins from back in the 50's and 60's still out there but you won't have access to them.
Here is a mechanical wrapping machine with a patent date of 1947: https://patents.google.com/patent/US2574660
bob
Actually the roll wrapping machines go farther back than that. The patent I generally reference is by Batdorf for the Automatic Coin Wrapping Machine Company, and was granted in 1915. I like that one as a reference because there are many rolls with that patent referenced on the wrapper. But in reality, the most important patent IMO, also by Batdorf but while he was at the Universal Coinwrapping Machine Company, was granted in 1913. It is for the first machine which crimped both ends such that you can see the end coins.
See a post I made almost 6 years ago going through some of the early coin wrapping patents:
@HiBucky said:
Years ago I bought an original roll of 1878-CC dollars. I am sorry I did not leave them in the roll. I placed them into 2 x 2 s . It may be time to sell them, they are nice .... I will not seperate them. I have not seen any rolls for sale but I have one. I would be starting at $9500 for all twenty. If anyone is interested just send me a message.
Got pictures? What did you do with the "original roll" wrapper?
@ianrussell said:
We had the opportunity to open a few of these "too good to be true" rolls this week and will be posting a video about the outcome.
Ian
Where was this posted?
Still working on editing. Should be posted later this week or next week.
Ian
Ian...I'm assuming that since we have not seen the video, that the results were very disappointing, ie "too good to be true", as all watching this thread have been expecting.
PM me for coin photography equipment, or visit my website:
@HiBucky said:
Years ago I bought an original roll of 1878-CC dollars. I am sorry I did not leave them in the roll. I placed them into 2 x 2 s . It may be time to sell them, they are nice .... I will not seperate them. I have not seen any rolls for sale but I have one. I would be starting at $9500 for all twenty. If anyone is interested just send me a message.
Got pictures? What did you do with the "original roll" wrapper?
There was no "original roll" wrapper. There were no original 78CC rolls.
PM me for coin photography equipment, or visit my website:
@HiBucky said:
Years ago I bought an original roll of 1878-CC dollars. I am sorry I did not leave them in the roll. I placed them into 2 x 2 s . It may be time to sell them, they are nice .... I will not seperate them. I have not seen any rolls for sale but I have one. I would be starting at $9500 for all twenty. If anyone is interested just send me a message.
Got pictures? What did you do with the "original roll" wrapper?
There was no "original roll" wrapper. There were no original 78CC rolls.
@HiBucky said:
Well you can say as you please about the roll, they did come from a roll. How else would you get 20 of them. They may have came from the mint in a 1000$ bag but someone took them out of the bag and placed them into a roll. I had that roll. Now you asked for pictures and I will post some need to get to bank so it will be a while. If someone is interested shoot me a IM..
JIm
The point with the "roll" vs. "original roll" is that a "put-together roll" could include slider AUs as well as UNCs. A put together roll could be put together at any time using coins from multiple sources and is not necessarily all "original" UNCs from the Mint. Even if they are all UNCs, they could all be 60s, 61s, and 62s because someone bought them one-at-a-time inexpensively or because they already cherried the $1000 bag. The value of an "original roll" is that it could have a 66 in there.
@HiBucky said:
Years ago I bought an original roll of 1878-CC dollars. I am sorry I did not leave them in the roll. I placed them into 2 x 2 s . It may be time to sell them, they are nice .... I will not seperate them. I have not seen any rolls for sale but I have one. I would be starting at $9500 for all twenty. If anyone is interested just send me a message.
That is a rather large premium for a put-together-roll. You can buy individual 78-CCs for $325-$400 in 60 through 64. You would need to find multiple 65s to make it worth that. I can't see all the coins well enough in your photo, but of the ones where I have a clear view of the obverse (about 12 of them), none of them appear to be 65s to me.
@HiBucky said:
Years ago I bought an original roll of 1878-CC dollars. I am sorry I did not leave them in the roll. I placed them into 2 x 2 s . It may be time to sell them, they are nice .... I will not seperate them. I have not seen any rolls for sale but I have one. I would be starting at $9500 for all twenty. If anyone is interested just send me a message.
@HiBucky said:
Years ago I bought an original roll of 1878-CC dollars. I am sorry I did not leave them in the roll. I placed them into 2 x 2 s . It may be time to sell them, they are nice .... I will not seperate them. I have not seen any rolls for sale but I have one. I would be starting at $9500 for all twenty. If anyone is interested just send me a message.
If this means anything the dollars are all vam 27, every one of them. .. So I ask, how common is it that you can put together a roll looking for all VAm 27 coins.. Can't you just say its an original 20 coins minted at the same time, removed from a 1000 coin bag and placed in a roll. As far as the nickels the same issue, they were minted at the same time. Many of them have the same scuff mark on the coin taking away value but many are just perfect, gorgeous coins. Because of many coins having a similar scuff mark from the minting process you can make an educated guess that they came from the same bag and placed into a roll many years ago. Or do you want to argue this one too.?
Jim
Do you really think the roll offered on e bay is a soild date roll ? When I opened my roll that was marked 1878-cc on the roll I did not expect to find 20 gorgeous 1878 cc coins. I have purchased many rolls from this guy over a 5 year period back in the day. I seen but never bought the roll of 1929 standing liberty quarters he had. He only sold me coins when he needed money. A person that could not be rushed. He retired from the steel plant and I was laid off. Always wondered about the roll of 1929 quarters.
@HiBucky said:
Do you really think the roll offered on e bay is a soild date roll ? When I opened my roll that was marked 1878-cc on the roll I did not expect to find 20 gorgeous 1878 cc coins. I have purchased many rolls from this guy over a 5 year period back in the day. I seen but never bought the roll of 1929 standing liberty quarters he had. He only sold me coins when he needed money. A person that could not be rushed. He retired from the steel plant and I was laid off. Always wondered about the roll of 1929 quarters.
Now, a 1929 Quarter roll could actually be "real", unlike a roll of 78-CC Dollars or 1883 Nickels. Banks were actively rolling new coin in the late 20's and really got going with it in the early 30's, with 1934 being the first year where most coins were distributed in rolls. OBW rolls from the 20's are really rare, and would probably only exist in some sort of contemporary hoard.
PM me for coin photography equipment, or visit my website:
@HiBucky said:
Do you really think the roll offered on e bay is a soild date roll ? When I opened my roll that was marked 1878-cc on the roll I did not expect to find 20 gorgeous 1878 cc coins. I have purchased many rolls from this guy over a 5 year period back in the day. I seen but never bought the roll of 1929 standing liberty quarters he had. He only sold me coins when he needed money. A person that could not be rushed. He retired from the steel plant and I was laid off. Always wondered about the roll of 1929 quarters.
The second one, no. I threw it up there just because.
The first link is most definitely a solid date roll and is more than $1000 less than you were "starting" your roll at.
@HiBucky said:
If this means anything the dollars are all vam 27, every one of them. .. So I ask, how common is it that you can put together a roll looking for all VAm 27 coins.. Can't you just say its an original 20 coins minted at the same time, removed from a 1000 coin bag and placed in a roll. As far as the nickels the same issue, they were minted at the same time. Many of them have the same scuff mark on the coin taking away value but many are just perfect, gorgeous coins. Because of many coins having a similar scuff mark from the minting process you can make an educated guess that they came from the same bag and placed into a roll many years ago. Or do you want to argue this one too.?
Jim
They possibly did come from a 1000 coin bag. But what does that prove other than that someone cherried a bag and sold a roll of the 62/63/64 coins? Either way, it is not an "original roll" since there is no such thing. And there should be no premium attached to a roll of coins that has been cherry picked. Not to mention that solicitation of offers should be on BST not this forum.
A few years ago I had a guy come into the shop to sell his morgan dollar collection, in this, he had a ?so called original bank roll of cc dollars with a carson city bank notation on the outside of the roll he got off ebay a few years prior. Both ends of coins were outword so you could see a nice fresh unc cc on each end. He paid 4500.00 for It. I told him I would not buy it because its not what you think it is. we agreed that if I break the roll and it contains what he thinks it is, ill pay him fair for every cc in the roll. we opened it right then an there, there were 2 cc's both 83-cc on each end, and in the middle were basically 3 dates 1881-s, 1880-s and a few 79-s if I recall. (he could not believe that somebody would rip him off like that)
FYI, the roll came from an original bag. Were the coins leftovers from the bag being cherry picked well like I said, the picture was a repost post. So I have not said anything about your persistence comments that the roll is full of 61,62 63 64 ...you forgot 65 and 65 +, As I have responded to two inquiries including sending the photos of 2 coins removed from the roll and are inclusive in the price. I am sure that both coins I had graded by PCGS are conservitally graded and should be sent in to PCGS by who ever buys the roll. I sent in 2 coins to PCGS had one come back as a MS-65 + and a 65. THe 65 + is a very very choice coin and the price for both graded coins from a put together roll as you stated that is full of 61, 62, 63, 64, has a price tag of $3260.00. In MS-66 the coin value is $4000.00. Ihe 65 + coin should be sent back to PCGS I was thinking MS 66+ when sent in. The roll is priced right it's a bargain I would say one to two more 65s are achievable 10-12 64s and the rest 63 and maybe a 62. The photo does not do justice to the coins. I just can't waste anymore time addressing comments that are confrontational. If someone shows interest you won't be disappointed. Jim
@HiBucky said:
FYI, the roll came from an original bag. Were the coins leftovers from the bag being cherry picked well like I said, the picture was a repost post. So I have not said anything about your persistence comments that the roll is full of 61,62 63 64 ...you forgot 65 and 65 +, As I have responded to two inquiries including sending the photos of 2 coins removed from the roll and are inclusive in the price. I am sure that both coins I had graded by PCGS are conservitally graded and should be sent in to PCGS by who ever buys the roll. I sent in 2 coins to PCGS had one come back as a MS-65 + and a 65. THe 65 + is a very very choice coin and the price for both graded coins from a put together roll as you stated that is full of 61, 62, 63, 64, has a price tag of $3260.00. In MS-66 the coin value is $4000.00. Ihe 65 + coin should be sent back to PCGS I was thinking MS 66+ when sent in. The roll is priced right it's a bargain I would say one to two more 65s are achievable 10-12 64s and the rest 63 and maybe a 62. The photo does not do justice to the coins. I just can't waste anymore time addressing comments that are confrontational. If someone shows interest you won't be disappointed. Jim
No offense intended, Jim, but you should not be trying to sell stuff on somebody else's thread. It is tacky, classless, and a major turn off to doing a deal of this level with you.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Comments
We had the opportunity to open a few of these "too good to be true" rolls this week and will be posting a video about the outcome.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
Ohhhh the tease!
Please hurry --- I need the large brass washers for a plumbing project !
Gotta ask you a question. When do you think they were wrapped with a mechanical rolling machine? Any idea? No guess? Then let google and the US patent office be your friend.
The rolls you see on ebay are all wrapped by some sort of machine, can we agree? Well, a quick search shows that mechanical wrapping machines were invented in the 1930's. Of course this wasn't wide spread all around the country instantly, 'eh? So, the need for quick wrapping of coins came along with the need by casinos in Nevada and Montana (mostly). It was great to get a bag of 1,000 silver dollars into the casino and then have an employee wrap them in rolls of ten or twenty and sometimes 25 or even 50. Sure made it a lot easier for the change girl to help their customers. But, this didn't happen until the 1950's or 1960's. Since silver was gone by '65 what are the odds that the roll was wrapped by a casino and remains until this day?
Bank wrapped, sure they did that and they just did it for convenience and rolled whatever was in the teller's drawers or the loose dollars in the vault. No thought process as to what should be on the end and how pretty it should be because 70 years from now someone will find this roll on ebay and want it! Nah.
It's almost all a scam. I say almost because there are 'original' rolls of coins from back in the 50's and 60's still out there but you won't have access to them.
Here is a mechanical wrapping machine with a patent date of 1947: https://patents.google.com/patent/US2574660
bob
Actually the roll wrapping machines go farther back than that. The patent I generally reference is by Batdorf for the Automatic Coin Wrapping Machine Company, and was granted in 1915. I like that one as a reference because there are many rolls with that patent referenced on the wrapper. But in reality, the most important patent IMO, also by Batdorf but while he was at the Universal Coinwrapping Machine Company, was granted in 1913. It is for the first machine which crimped both ends such that you can see the end coins.
See a post I made almost 6 years ago going through some of the early coin wrapping patents:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/901297/obw-rolls-what-can-we-learn-from-the-earliest-patents/p1
http://macrocoins.com
Where was this posted?
@ianrussell yes, inquisitive minds want to watch!!
bob
Still working on editing. Should be posted later this week or next week.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
Awesome anticipation always awakens all areas... in my brain.
@ianrussell Time sure flies, did you ever post a video Ian? Link if so.
thanks,
bob
Oh yeah, this was a thing...
Collector, occasional seller
@ianrussell said:
We had the opportunity to open a few of these "too good to be true" rolls this week and will be posting a video about the outcome.
Ian
@ianrussell said:
» show previous quotes
Still working on editing. Should be posted later this week or next week.
Ian
Any word on when this video will be posted, please. Thanks
Years ago
Can't wait...
Got pictures? What did you do with the "original roll" wrapper?
Ian...I'm assuming that since we have not seen the video, that the results were very disappointing, ie "too good to be true", as all watching this thread have been expecting.
http://macrocoins.com
There was no "original roll" wrapper. There were no original 78CC rolls.
http://macrocoins.com
You don’t suppose that was Pete’s point?
Smitten with DBLCs.
WIM..
JIm
This
The pic were from one of my previous posts..
I have 3 original rolls of 1883 nickel also posted a few of them
The point with the "roll" vs. "original roll" is that a "put-together roll" could include slider AUs as well as UNCs. A put together roll could be put together at any time using coins from multiple sources and is not necessarily all "original" UNCs from the Mint. Even if they are all UNCs, they could all be 60s, 61s, and 62s because someone bought them one-at-a-time inexpensively or because they already cherried the $1000 bag. The value of an "original roll" is that it could have a 66 in there.
That is a rather large premium for a put-together-roll. You can buy individual 78-CCs for $325-$400 in 60 through 64. You would need to find multiple 65s to make it worth that. I can't see all the coins well enough in your photo, but of the ones where I have a clear view of the obverse (about 12 of them), none of them appear to be 65s to me.
https://ebay.com/itm/Original-Roll-20-1878-cc-Blast-White-Unc-Morgan-Silver-Dollars-Will-Grade-Out/352554737846?hash=item5215e660b6:g:x-QAAOSwWk5cJXih
Try going to eBay and searching "1878-CC roll"
If this means anything the dollars are all vam 27, every one of them. .. So I ask, how common is it that you can put together a roll looking for all VAm 27 coins.. Can't you just say its an original 20 coins minted at the same time, removed from a 1000 coin bag and placed in a roll. As far as the nickels the same issue, they were minted at the same time. Many of them have the same scuff mark on the coin taking away value but many are just perfect, gorgeous coins. Because of many coins having a similar scuff mark from the minting process you can make an educated guess that they came from the same bag and placed into a roll many years ago. Or do you want to argue this one too.?
Jim
Do you really think the roll offered on e bay is a soild date roll ? When I opened my roll that was marked 1878-cc on the roll I did not expect to find 20 gorgeous 1878 cc coins. I have purchased many rolls from this guy over a 5 year period back in the day. I seen but never bought the roll of 1929 standing liberty quarters he had. He only sold me coins when he needed money. A person that could not be rushed. He retired from the steel plant and I was laid off. Always wondered about the roll of 1929 quarters.
Very nice coins. It's interesting to think about how those nickels have probably been together for more than 135 years.
Now, a 1929 Quarter roll could actually be "real", unlike a roll of 78-CC Dollars or 1883 Nickels. Banks were actively rolling new coin in the late 20's and really got going with it in the early 30's, with 1934 being the first year where most coins were distributed in rolls. OBW rolls from the 20's are really rare, and would probably only exist in some sort of contemporary hoard.
http://macrocoins.com
The second one, no. I threw it up there just because.
The first link is most definitely a solid date roll and is more than $1000 less than you were "starting" your roll at.
They possibly did come from a 1000 coin bag. But what does that prove other than that someone cherried a bag and sold a roll of the 62/63/64 coins? Either way, it is not an "original roll" since there is no such thing. And there should be no premium attached to a roll of coins that has been cherry picked. Not to mention that solicitation of offers should be on BST not this forum.
A few years ago I had a guy come into the shop to sell his morgan dollar collection, in this, he had a ?so called original bank roll of cc dollars with a carson city bank notation on the outside of the roll he got off ebay a few years prior. Both ends of coins were outword so you could see a nice fresh unc cc on each end. He paid 4500.00 for It. I told him I would not buy it because its not what you think it is. we agreed that if I break the roll and it contains what he thinks it is, ill pay him fair for every cc in the roll. we opened it right then an there, there were 2 cc's both 83-cc on each end, and in the middle were basically 3 dates 1881-s, 1880-s and a few 79-s if I recall. (he could not believe that somebody would rip him off like that)
FYI, the roll came from an original bag. Were the coins leftovers from the bag being cherry picked well like I said, the picture was a repost post. So I have not said anything about your persistence comments that the roll is full of 61,62 63 64 ...you forgot 65 and 65 +, As I have responded to two inquiries including sending the photos of 2 coins removed from the roll and are inclusive in the price. I am sure that both coins I had graded by PCGS are conservitally graded and should be sent in to PCGS by who ever buys the roll. I sent in 2 coins to PCGS had one come back as a MS-65 + and a 65. THe 65 + is a very very choice coin and the price for both graded coins from a put together roll as you stated that is full of 61, 62, 63, 64, has a price tag of $3260.00. In MS-66 the coin value is $4000.00. Ihe 65 + coin should be sent back to PCGS I was thinking MS 66+ when sent in. The roll is priced right it's a bargain I would say one to two more 65s are achievable 10-12 64s and the rest 63 and maybe a 62. The photo does not do justice to the coins. I just can't waste anymore time addressing comments that are confrontational. If someone shows interest you won't be disappointed. Jim
No offense intended, Jim, but you should not be trying to sell stuff on somebody else's thread. It is tacky, classless, and a major turn off to doing a deal of this level with you.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."