OGH, CAC, possible resubmission question....
genesis156
Posts: 42 ✭✭
Here’s the situation: I bought a high grade Morgan (PCGS MS67 OGH CAC) from a reputable dealer. The coin came in today and I really like it. However, I noticed there were some fine scratches on the reverse. Upon closer look, the scratches appear to be on the holder, not the coin. The coin has a pretty cool pedigree and the OGH is part of it. For the date and grade the CAC sticker is worth $$$$.
As I think about potential options my question is this....If I resubmitted to PCGS, got a new holder (and assume the same grade), am I at risk that CAC might not resticker it (I don’t know what their process is for this sort of thing). Anyone else had this experience with older holders? Any other thoughts?
genesis156
1
Comments
Search on this forum - believe there is a couple different methods to remove fine scratches from a plastic holder. (basically, same method as removing scratches/tarnish/haze from plastic headlight lenses)
I don't know what "fine" means to you but I'd leave it alone.
Losing the OGH will reduce its value because sadly plastic matters.
You can buff out the scratches using plastic polish (Maguiar's PlastX works well) and a drill with a polishing head.
If you reholder a coin, the serial number will stay the same. CAC will resticker a coin (guaranteed resticker) if the serial number stays the same. A $3 fee is charged for the replacement sticker.
It's the holder that is valuable not the coin ! Get it reholdered and enjoy it. CAC might resticker cheap or no charge (they know it's CAC) . If it was NGC it would reholder with same coin number. Study of holders is not numismatics but I'll bet you could coin a phrase if there's not one already.
Will PCGS re-holder with the same serial #? If yes, then I'd send CAC an email and ask them how to handle. They have been pretty responsive to my questions in the recent past.
Just about everything said here is wrong. I sound like Luke in the new Star Wars.
If you can’t get the scratches out of the OGH and don’t mind losing the holder, ask PCGS to just reholder the coin. The info on the cert (pedigree, if on the cert) will stay the same, including the cert number. Once you get the coin back from PCGS in its new, unscratched holder, send it to CAC for restickering. Since the cert number has not changed, there will not be an issue with getting a new sticker. They will resticker it for a $3 fee.
Hope that helps.
Dave
Why pray tell would you not do a regrade and try for the upgrade?
Take a picture of the current coin in the slab, and if it goes up only a plus, CAC will put the sticker back on. If it goes up a full grade, I doubt it but you never know.
Either way, you will pay the full amount to CAC, not 3 bucks. They have to regrade the coin just to make sure nothing changed on the coin during the reholder/regrade. I have not ever had a problem getting the sticker again on a regrade, sending an image or including the old label on a crossover. In fact, I many times just put a note on the invoice with the old sticker # and don't send any proof. By that time, the old sticker is now out of PCGS database proving there was a regrade.
Please elaborate with your reason or perhaps you should troll somewhere else! Oh, pardon me, I see you have commented but I'm more interested in what others said that is wrong advice.
IMO, why spend more money on the coin because of a "fine scratch?" Hold it until it is time to sell, then go for the upgrade when more gradeflation has taken place.
Possibly because in today's crazy world, the coin may be more valuable as is than if were upgraded to 68 without the CAC bean.
Smitten with DBLCs.
I have done a re-holder with variety attribution, it kept the cert # and CAC re-stickered it no problem, my coin shop sent it in for me and I paid the $3(or $5?) resticker fee.
That being said it sounds like your slab will polish right up with a little elbow(knuckle in this case I suppose) grease. Use cotton balls with your polish, apply the polish until it is semi-reflective and you can tell it is smooth, buff with a fresh dry cotton ball. That's my method and it works great! The stuff I use is a car polish from paintscratch.com but I don't think they sell the same stuff anymore... it was probably just something else re-bottled though.
Collector, occasional seller
Fix it with Maguire's Scratchx or similar auto body product. Poly cloth, rub briskly, hard. If you send it off and get it redone, the potential still exists for more scratching.
CAC will certainly re-sticker it. I would most certainly leave it alone, though.
What is the date?
The advice given is usually from those who do not submit either to PCGS or CAC. Or a couple of coins here and there. This includes yourself.
If he is going to send it in for any reason, he might as well regrade it. I may be in the minority with saying this, but OGH Morgans do not command that much of a premium, unless you are selling them at Sotheby's.
You do not see many OGH coins coming in for crossover is my guess.
@genesis156 I don't think you are at risk at losing the CAC sticker if you decide to reholder the coin, which is your main question.
The noise coming in about losing the OGH, or whether to regrade or not will be up to you, but it still won't really put you at risk of not getting the sticker back on - unless, of course, you regrade and it upgrades.
Just take a picture of both sides of the coin in its slab with the CAC sticker, save your PCGS invoices, and take a picture/print of your completed order page showing the order # and any new cert #'s. Those will support getting the CAC sticker back on.
After recently submitting many NGC and PCGS coins with CAC stickers to PCGS for crossovers, variety attributions, regrades, and reconsiderations, I had no problem getting the CAC stickers back on , and most for the minimal resticker fee of $3 with my paperwork. For @Wabbit2313, a number were OGH's, and I think paid $3 for PCGS coins and the regular fee for NGC coins that crossed. No problems on coins that received new cert #'s since it could all be seen with the paperwork trail. Coins that upgraded were just sent in for a new review, and some got the sticker after that and some did not.
1TwoBits
If it were my coin, I'd keep it in the holder it is in right now. I would buff out the fine scratches and enjoy it. I might take @Wabbit2313's advice later down the road, even he has stated that PCGS is tough right now. Why throw out money on a regrade to only see it in another holder at the same grade and then go through the process of getting the CAC sticker back on it? Also, another consideration to keep in mind is the pedigree. Is it on the label? If so, is it a pedigree that adds a premium? If so, inquire with PCGS about wether the pedigree would be able to transfer on a regrade. If it won't, would the upgrade be worth losing the current pedigree?
There are a lot of variables in play here. Images of the current coin would help tremendously in helping you make a decision. One thing I can tell you is your least expensive move right now, is a trip to the automotive store to buy some Maguiar's PlastX and some buffing cloths.
I tend to agree with Wabbit on matters like this. In the interest of keeping things simple and cheap, however, I would just polish-out the scratches as others (like @jtlee321) said.
If the scratches (or scuffs) are not deep buy a bottle of the Meguiar's product @cameonut2011 cited. Work the on them a few times, if necessary. PlastX is available at Amazon, Walmart or your local auto parts store.
If the scratches are pretty deep then pick up some 3M Polishing Papers:
https://amazon.com/Zona-37-948-Polishing-11-Inch-Assortment/dp/B07C2VR2Y9
The 3M stuff is serious! Your first pass with the grittiest paper will completely cloud-over the entire plastic surface. But as you progress to the finer grit paper the surface will gleam like new.
Lance.
I want to thank you all for your comments and advice. A little more info, the holder does not list a pedigree but was part of the Stone collection recently auctioned by Sotheby’s. At this time, I don’t really want to list the date. I like the idea of buffing the scratches out. If I screw I up I, I can still send it in for a regrade (I would certainly do that Wabbit). I was mostly concerned about getting CAC to resticker (assuming it doesn’t regrade up more than a “+”). Sounds like that’s really not an issue. Thanks again!
If he is going to lose the OGH, I agree with a regrade rather than a reholder, but that isn't what he asked. My statement was factually true. As long as the serial number stays the same, there is a resticker tier for $3 and not the full CAC fee.
I also don't necessarily agree that there is no OGH premium for a Morgan - I would argue that it depends on the coin. This series has been hit hard by grade inflation and better dates may have more of a premium than a common date. Moreover, I think monster toned coins benefit immensely from the old holder - it shows stability and grading before the most recent waves of grade inflation and the increase in AT coins that have flooded the market in the last decade. Regardless, given PCGS's most recent cycle of tightening, there is a good chance that a regrade won't be fruitful. I don't think you would argue with that an OGH would be worth less or the same than a newer holder. If the scratch is minor, why not buff it out rather than make a donation to our host?
Unless you have actually cracked the slab most any scratch can be removed.
Here BryceM shows how to do it. He scratched a slab more than any slab would ever get scratched and made it look just like new. Small to medium scratches can be removed with little effort.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/947337/restoring-scratched-slabs-version-2-0-new-improved.
CAC will resticker a previously stickered coin for $3,, of course if you send one coin you easily will have $30+ in shipping both ways plus the cost of shipping both ways to PCGS and the reholdering fees and handling fees. So you can easily have over $75+ to get get rid of a scratch that you can remove yourself in a few minutes.
To resticker at CAC you take photos of BOTH sides of the slab before sending it for reholder. When you get the coin back I print the photos and send with the coin to CAC. I also send a copy of the PCGS Submission form with the old cert number on it as further proof. This will prove the history if you get a new cert number. If you keep the cert number this won't be necessary.
I'd leave it alone !!!
Now that I know where you got it, many of those coins are under-graded. He had an eye for finding those. Most don't realize that there are TONS of recently graded Morgans that are better than many OGH coins. Most graded in the last year.
I would have to know which coin you bought to give an opinion. Hopefully the 84-S!
If it were my coin, I would simply buff the slab to remove the scratches....If you intend to sell, however, then the above advice may well apply. Cheers, RickO
Could you expound a little more on the above quote (the top one). The 84-s wasn’t quite within my budget
I can't give away all of my secrets. As far as your coin, all the 67 Morgans in that auction sold for 67+ or higher money. It is impossible to offer an opinion on if it is under-graded by a full point, without knowing what coin it is. Some of those dollars will never be worth what was paid for them. Hopefully not yours!
Unless these are significant scratches, I'd just leave it alone all together.
My YouTube Channel
85-cc, I’m working on a Morgan CAC cc set. A goal this year was a ms67 85-cc. I was the underbidder for the one that traded in Jan at FUN. This was the first one I’ve seen since.
That would be a big diff. Best of luck
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
There were two in the sale. Both OGH 67's and both CAC. One looks a solid 67+, the other, not so much.
I bought the “other”. Thanks for your comments.
Got pics? I'd like to see this one.
My YouTube Channel
If you are asking if they will put the old label in a new slab, no. But you can keep the number.
Do you loose your CAC sticker if it upgrades by a +
My Saint Set
Yes. The serial number will change. CAC would likely sticker it again but it will be looked at anew with no guarantees that it will re-sticker.
In my case it would be worth it.
CAC =1K & + = 4K
I would also prefer a gold shield holder over the beat up one I have.
Thanks for the answer
My Saint Set
And if it does plus, you'll likely get your sticker back and have your cake/eat it too. Some people send pictures of the coin in the old holder with the sticker or TPG insert.
If you send it in under Reconsideration and it upgrades you keep the old cert number, however if it doesn't upgrade it won't be reholdered.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Pretty coins still in OGH’s with beans are tough to find....and always appreciated.
This is not one of them.
It's newer & looks like it was used as a hockey puck.
I think a green bean on a green holder would be great if I can find something like a 27 or 28 MS66 saint in one.
My Saint Set
Help me out here....CAC has said that plus designations will be disregarded. So...why won't CAC guarantee a new sticker on the plus grade, if one has documented a sticker on the coin in a prior non plus grade?
@TopoftheHill
It all comes down to the serial number. If the serial number changes then it is treated as a new submission/new coin. If the serial number was the same, then the coin would only be assessed a re-sticker fee ($3) and it would be guaranteed to re-sticker.
Are you sure about this? I usually use the regrade tier rather than the reconsideration tier, but it seems that the approach suggested would cause a lot of confusion. What if a coin upgraded from MS64 to MS65? If the serial number is the same, in theory CAC would bean it at MS65 under the resticker tier, no? I doubt John and the graders personally review coins that are resubmitted for a lost/damaged sticker ($3 tier).
I am positive. I've had several upgrade using Reconsideration. They've all kept the same cert number.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
There are 3 parts to a "number"
Coin type (4 numbers) DOT coin grade (2 number & maybe a +) SLASH & Coin serial # (8 numbers)
Are you counting the + sign as a number that can change?
Are you counting the coin grade number that can change?
This is confusing
Coin type never will change for a coin of a particular type/date.
Coin grade can change.
Coin serial number can change if cracked out.
My Saint Set