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Do you gamble? Update... it's 9.25 Sterling

MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,667 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited July 19, 2018 10:44AM in Precious Metals

I try not to when it comes to bullion but did yesterday. I bought this 5oz silver piece from a California dealer. He sets up at this big Portland, OR antique show every year and always has a ton of cool silver. I almost bought it last year when I went but he wanted silly money for it. This year, the price was right so I gambled on it. No name, no maker mark anywhere but wonderful patina. The shape, rounded top edges and "feel" of this ingot all seem legit to me. Any idea who made it? Tomorrow I'll take it into my friends shop and see if it's .999, .900 or what.
Whattaya all think?



Click on this link to see my ebay listings.

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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,444 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Without any markings it's worthless to me and most silver stackers.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 6,727 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 15, 2018 8:26AM

    Not a gamble I would take. IMO, If you paid more than spot....the house wins.
    Still a nice looking bar though!

    MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940

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    WeissWeiss Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm not as severe as @PerryHall . It's not "worthless". The patina looks legit and quite old. And I suspect it is relatively high grade silver. But without any identifying marks, it just doesn't capture my imagination.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
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    MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,667 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 15, 2018 8:41AM

    Chickens. :p
    I'm not into keeping unmarked silver either, not trying to spam the boards but I bought it for hopeful ebay flippage... plus I think it's cool. I love the antique tarnish and believe it's an old one.

    Click on this link to see my ebay listings.

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    chumleychumley Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭✭

    toss a cac sticker on her and let ebay have at it

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would not buy an unmarked bar...well, I do know people from my working past, that accumulated scrap gold and silver from the plating operations, and that stuff was very pure...If it were one of them, I would probably buy it at the right price....other than that, not likely. Cheers, RickO

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    rte592rte592 Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭✭✭

    List it as an Old Pour Blank :)
    Keep the print out from when you check the metal content and add that in the listing.
    If I could check it out in hand and it checks out silver....I'd be a gambler at <25% of spot.

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    AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,544 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hopefully it's not pure silver but something like .887 or some other odd number. Perhaps it has gold in it as well. Old Miners bar is my guess, not a company bar.

    Let us know what the results of the test are...

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,444 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Weiss said:
    I'm not as severe as @PerryHall . It's not "worthless". The patina looks legit and quite old. And I suspect it is relatively high grade silver. But without any identifying marks, it just doesn't capture my imagination.

    How can one be sure it isn't some base metal with silver plating without running tests?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    shinywhiteshinywhite Posts: 346 ✭✭✭

    @Meltdown said:
    Chickens. :p
    I'm not into keeping unmarked silver either, not trying to spam the boards but I bought it for hopeful ebay flippage... plus I think it's cool. I love the antique tarnish and believe it's an old one.

    Definitely cool. I wager that it's an old bar, circa 1960's, maybe older. Just my 2 cents. Odd that it doesn't have any hallmarks or purity stamps.....I would love to know the outcome of testing!

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    thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you paid more than 50% of melt, you paid too much if you want to make any money. I would have done a specific gravity at the least before I bought it.

    thefinn
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,444 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @shinywhite said:

    @Meltdown said:
    Chickens. :p
    I'm not into keeping unmarked silver either, not trying to spam the boards but I bought it for hopeful ebay flippage... plus I think it's cool. I love the antique tarnish and believe it's an old one.

    Definitely cool. I wager that it's an old bar, circa 1960's, maybe older. Just my 2 cents. Odd that it doesn't have any hallmarks or purity stamps.....I would love to know the outcome of testing!

    When you sell it on eBay, list it as an extremely rare and possibly unique error Engelhard bar that missed the marking process. Once in a lifetime opportunity!!! :o:D;)

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The color matches most of the "coin melt" bars from the 1960's exchange for silver certificate times.

    If that's the case, it is not .999
    They're a mint product.
    In 1968 the Treasury sold a million oz of .996-.998 and another million of .897 to .900
    They were melt product and I believe either could be got for silver certs including some in shot form.

    They are oooogly things. They WILL be discounted by buyers as the only market is for either coin or .999+

    Even Sterling at .925 is easier to sell.

    Call around. Dillon Gage probably buys them.

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    Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I Ike it, hope it works out in your favor after you get it tested, good luck !!! :)

    Timbuk3
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    shinywhiteshinywhite Posts: 346 ✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @shinywhite said:

    @Meltdown said:
    Chickens. :p
    I'm not into keeping unmarked silver either, not trying to spam the boards but I bought it for hopeful ebay flippage... plus I think it's cool. I love the antique tarnish and believe it's an old one.

    Definitely cool. I wager that it's an old bar, circa 1960's, maybe older. Just my 2 cents. Odd that it doesn't have any hallmarks or purity stamps.....I would love to know the outcome of testing!

    When you sell it on eBay, list it as an extremely rare and possibly unique error Engelhard bar that missed the marking process. Once in a lifetime opportunity!!! :o:D;)

    No, dont do that...lol. I did get a good laugh out of this...

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    shinywhiteshinywhite Posts: 346 ✭✭✭
    edited July 15, 2018 4:00PM

    @topstuf said:
    The color matches most of the "coin melt" bars from the 1960's exchange for silver certificate times.

    If that's the case, it is not .999
    They're a mint product.
    In 1968 the Treasury sold a million oz of .996-.998 and another million of .897 to .900
    They were melt product and I believe either could be got for silver certs including some in shot form.

    They are oooogly things. They WILL be discounted by buyers as the only market is for either coin or .999+

    Even Sterling at .925 is easier to sell.

    Call around. Dillon Gage probably buys them.

    You are correct about trading in silver certs for some silver "shot". Apmex actually has a replica 1 oz "silver shot" vial. Pretty neat..check it out if you get a chance.

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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,858 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Yup. I gamble, refine, melt, and pour.

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    skier07skier07 Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like to gamble when I think I’m taking the best of it.

    I’m not sure about this purchase.

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    KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not much on sports gambling but on coin purchases sure. I think we all do.

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

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    TomaToma Posts: 58 ✭✭✭

    Not very reliable but your 5 oz bar looks a lot bigger than my .999 5 oz bar.

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    MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,667 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Update: The bar was sent of to our local refiner. Turns out, it's sterling. Un-marked, redheaded stepchild sterling.
    I'm a bit bummed about it but happy it's not plated lead I suppose.
    I'll keep it for now and see what the price of silver brings in a year or ten.
    :/

    Click on this link to see my ebay listings.

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    astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What type of assay was run on the bar?

    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
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    MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,667 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Triple A refinery here in Portland uses an Xray spectrometer thing. It breaks down by percentage the different metals in the item. I didn't take it in personally so I did not get to see the exact breakdown.

    Click on this link to see my ebay listings.

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    astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks.

    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
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    SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Would be easier to sell it it was marked.

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    Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 6,727 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You win some, you lose some. Glad to hear it’s not a complete bust.

    MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940

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