Auction-House Practices . . .

celavie

Recently tracking some world coins in California dealer auctions. I have bid on a couple. Their estimate is extreme on the items and reasonable bids never get very far - what generally happens is they are "bought" for several hundred dollars over reality . . . the same price range each time and here's the whammy by the SAME bidder! Next, a couple of days later they are re-listed and the cycle continues, I bid, don't get it, outbid and sold - you guessed it, to the same bidder as before (think they would at least change the online moniker! It is the SAME two coins (NGC cert. numbers) over and over again. Instead of a $1.00 start price, why not start with a reserve. etc. Really appears to perhaps be a scam, maybe they don't actually have the coins and therefore can't really sell them, just use them to appear to have diverse inventory, etc. On the other hand as they perhaps know the bidders "high bids" they just bid internally to keep the coins until they can get someone to pay the inflated estimate price. Emailed them - guess what, no reply . . . surprise, surprise . . .

Similar experiences anyone?

RKL

brg5658

Many auction houses put "invisible" reserves on coins via bidding on the coins themselves. Heritage does it. Legend does it.

I agree more transparency is warranted, but in a world of people hell bent on no regulation of the coin markets, the shady practices will continue.

I'd appreciate if you would disclose the name of this auction firm. The practice is probably in the fine print of their policies.

YQQ

its happening in Europe very often!

Nap

Some firms reserve the right to bid on their own coins.

bidask

Well we all try to pay the lowest price anyway, don't we?

291fifth

Potted plants are very aggressive bidders ... but apparently usually don't have the money to pay.

celavie

An example of some Congo pieces being "sold" and then re-listed multiple times.

http://www.icollector.com/search.aspx?q=1888 congo&p=1&ps=20&is=0&ex=0&so=13&sf=1&hi=0

CoinCrazyPA

@celavie said:
An example of some Congo pieces being "sold" and then re-listed multiple times.

http://www.icollector.com/search.aspx?q=1888 congo&p=1&ps=20&is=0&ex=0&so=13&sf=1&hi=0

Look like they did it 10 times on this piece.

celavie

Here we go again: it has been a couple of days and one of the previously mentioned coins is back up - re-listed with a $1.00 start price, unrevealed reserve.

http://www.icollector.com/1888-7-Belgian-Congo-5-Centimes-Coin-NGC-MS65RB_i30644953

BillJones

Here’s one more reason to dislike auctions. I buy via “private treaty” as much as I can. At least you know what the prices are without all of the games.

I thought that there were laws against auction houses shilling on their own bids. I remember an auction house got busted for that a few years ago. I suppose it’s a matter of crossing the wrong person or business.

brg5658

@BillJones said:
Here’s one more reason to dislike auctions. I buy via “private treaty” as much as I can. At least you know what the prices are without all of the games.

I thought that there were laws against auction houses shilling on their own bids. I remember an auction house got busted for that a few years ago. I suppose it’s a matter of crossing the wrong person or business.

I think if it's buried in the small print then they think it's justified.

Stork

Ah, the 'siezed' and 'assets' type of name seller, and using icollector as the platform.

Basically as soon as I see any type of pseudo-official-government name or the uses of any combination of seized and/or assets in the seller's title or business description, I just keep on moving.

I recall a few 'live auction' events set on eBay with similarly named group(s). Nothing I watched ever went for anything other than retail pricing, and the feedback was terrible for high cost/low quality/horrendous customer service.

I also strongly suspect with some 'public auctions' there is an attempt to establish a public 'sell' price, so a computer scan of 'results' would support their higher asking price. Especially when the same item 'sells' multiple times at a surprisingly good price.

Hey, look at this gem in the terms/conditions from the actual website (not the icollector platform)...first the usual verbiage of everything is sold 'as is', 'no refunds' etc. Then this gem:
IF THERE EVER IS A CASE OF A REFUND BEING ISSUED, YOU WILL BE CHARGED A 15% RESTOCKING FEE AND YOU WILL BE RESPONSIBLE TO PAY SHIPPING FEES AND BUYER’S PREMIUMS WILL NOT BE REFUNDED. PLEASE BID RESPONSIBLY AND ASK ALL QUESTIONS PRIOR TO PLACING A BID.
So, no refund, but if we give you one because we misrepresented, mis- sent, sent a fake, we only showed the good side and you forgot to ask about the other side which had the big tear, or whatever...you still get to pay the premiums, a restocking fee AND pay to mail it back.

I love how an absolutely no returns allowed group (hey it's an 'auction') place still has such a slimy type of refund description.

Timbuk3

Geez !!!

jt88

HA for sure push up the price and some of items back on the next auction. The other internet auction houses are even worst. Just bid the price you want to buy don't believe the price you see in auction. It is OK for not getting the item but it is not OK to buy a over price item and hold it for decades before you can sell for break even.

celavie

UPDATE 7/7/2018

Same coin just "sold" again! Same "buyer" and price range - it jumped on the "floor" from about $40. to $300. Same coin (same buyer) "sold" on June 29 ($250) and on June 21 ($275), etc. These prices don't include the added "buyers" fees.

http://www.icollector.com/1888-7-Belgian-Congo-5-Centimes-Coin-NGC-MS65RB_i30644953

291fifth

@brg5658 said:

@BillJones said:
Here’s one more reason to dislike auctions. I buy via “private treaty” as much as I can. At least you know what the prices are without all of the games.

I thought that there were laws against auction houses shilling on their own bids. I remember an auction house got busted for that a few years ago. I suppose it’s a matter of crossing the wrong person or business.

I think if it's buried in the small print then they think it's justified.

Today's auction house terms can be summed up very simply: "We can do whatever we want and you have no recourse."

YQQ

ts start black list..

celavie

Last time: coin is up again, same MO - Wow.

http://www.icollector.com/1888-7-Belgian-Congo-5-Centimes-Coin-NGC-MS65RB_i30746245

Type2

That's crazy.

Kkathyl

I would scratch them off the list. Frustrating indeed. Auctions are suppose to be chances to make good deals sometimes not to good. either way it should never be outright fraud. We all like a deal here and there or at least some entertainment in the process. your correct to say when you see the same one over and over something not smelling right.