Post 1950 - best pitcher all time

1951WheatiesPremium · June 28, 2018 5:31PM

Who ya got (and why, if you want)?

After the lively Kershaw v Koufax stuff I'm curious who you guys would put number one? You can have anyone AFTER 1950!

Ex What about Warren Spahn? Cool.

Old Hoss Radburn? Negative...

Got it? Go!

Justacommeman · June 28, 2018 6:14PM

Pedro Martinez

mark

JoeBanzai · June 28, 2018 6:32PM

Pedro looks good, Juan Marichal?

stevek · June 28, 2018 6:37PM

To win a must game - Koufax...not debatable.

Career - Randy Johnson...the only pitcher who truly frightened me, and that was just watching him on TV. LOL

Tabe · June 28, 2018 8:07PM

Tough call but... Roger Clemens.

1951WheatiesPremium · June 29, 2018 3:43AM

Nice - up to 5 names...

Marichal, Koufax, Clemens, Randy Johnson, Pedro.

Great choices - I'm just curious how long it goes until I see the name I am thinking.

Similar to Kareem Abdul Jabbar, this guy never gets the credit he deserves - sure, everyone knows him and will be like 'Oh, sure - good choice' but no on ever brings him up. And I wonder why - just like with Kareem - it takes so long when clearly he belongs in the discussion.

stevek · June 29, 2018 3:53AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Nice - up to 5 names...

Marichal, Koufax, Clemens, Randy Johnson, Pedro.

Great choices - I'm just curious how long it goes until I see the name I am thinking.

Similar to Kareem Abdul Jabbar, this guy never gets the credit he deserves - sure, everyone knows him and will be like 'Oh, sure - good choice' but no on ever brings him up. And I wonder why - just like with Kareem - it takes so long when clearly he belongs in the discussion.

My guess is you're talking about Bob Gibson.

1951WheatiesPremium · June 29, 2018 3:56AM

@stevek

No, though he's certainly a very worthy name.

I don't believe there's a 'right answer' either but like I said, this guy doesn't get the love when the GOAT discussion comes up.

erikthredd · June 29, 2018 4:26AM

Without a doubt for me, Pedro.

LarkinCollector · June 29, 2018 4:54AM

@stevek said:
Career - Randy Johnson...the only pitcher who truly frightened me, and that was just watching him on TV. LOL

This ^ That poor bird.

grote15 · June 29, 2018 5:43AM

Seaver, Gibson, Pedro, Randy or Maddux for me.

stevek · June 29, 2018 6:13AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
@stevek

No, though he's certainly a very worthy name.

I don't believe there's a 'right answer' either but like I said, this guy doesn't get the love when the GOAT discussion comes up.

I get three guesses, that's the rules...second guess...Robin Roberts

stevek · June 29, 2018 6:31AM

@LarkinCollector said:

@stevek said:
Career - Randy Johnson...the only pitcher who truly frightened me, and that was just watching him on TV. LOL

This ^ That poor bird.

Too bad it wasn't an umpire instead.

Come on now...no nasty remarks from anyone...it was only a joke.

1951WheatiesPremium · June 29, 2018 6:31AM

If that's the rules, I'll play by em...

1951WheatiesPremium · June 29, 2018 6:32AM

one more guess then...

stevek · June 29, 2018 6:34AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
If that's the rules, I'll play by em...

I guess it isn't Roberts then.

Whitey Ford? Probably not, but I'm trying to think of underrated pitchers.

LarkinCollector · June 29, 2018 6:35AM

@stevek said:

@LarkinCollector said:

@stevek said:
Career - Randy Johnson...the only pitcher who truly frightened me, and that was just watching him on TV. LOL

This ^ That poor bird.

Too bad it wasn't an umpire instead.
Come on now...no nasty remarks from anyone...it was only a joke.

I don't get it.

Randy has a sense of humor though, maybe he will.

stevek · June 29, 2018 6:39AM

@LarkinCollector said:

@stevek said:

@LarkinCollector said:

@stevek said:
Career - Randy Johnson...the only pitcher who truly frightened me, and that was just watching him on TV. LOL

This ^ That poor bird.

Too bad it wasn't an umpire instead.
Come on now...no nasty remarks from anyone...it was only a joke.

I don't get it.

Randy has a sense of humor though, maybe he will.

You never heard the phrase "kill the umpire"?

1951WheatiesPremium · June 29, 2018 7:13AM

Whitey Ford!

Where's the love?

One of the highest W% (.690)
One of the lowest career ERA (2.75)
Postseason? Went two consecutive World Series without giving up a run, most wins (10), pitched 3 games Ina. Series twice (with Casey Stengel losing his job in part because that number wasn't 3).

Moxie, grit, gamer - he was it as much as any guy whoever lived. I know how good those Yankee teams were but you don't win without pitching.

True now, true then.

stevek · June 29, 2018 7:29AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Whitey Ford!

Where's the love?

One of the highest W% (.690)
One of the lowest career ERA (2.75)
Postseason? Went two consecutive World Series without giving up a run, most wins (10), pitched 3 games Ina. Series twice (with Casey Stengel losing his job in part because that number wasn't 3).

Moxie, grit, gamer - he was it as much as any guy whoever lived. I know how good those Yankee teams were but you don't win without pitching.

True now, true then.

Every Yankee player on those teams knew how valuable Whitey Ford was to their success.

One of the most underrated players of all time in my opinion. Overshadowed by Mantle, Maris, Berra, etc.

My nephew when he was a kid, at a Yankees spring training game in Florida, it was around 20 years ago, had a nice conversation with Whitey, and Whitey autographed a baseball for him. It's his most cherished autograph.

Whitey Ford - a great guy on and off the field.

1951WheatiesPremium · June 29, 2018 8:33AM

Similar to Kareem - doesn't get the credit he deserves for just how great he really was...

stevek · June 29, 2018 8:54AM

My fourth guess might have been Roger Craig.

i mean you have to be a pretty good pitcher to lose 24 games and the team keeps you for the following season. Craig "only" lost 22 games the next season, so he did show improvement. LOL

perkdog · June 29, 2018 2:39PM

Whitey Ford is probably one of the most underrated players in MLB history, completely overshadowed by the other big name Yankees

Coinstartled · June 29, 2018 3:18PM

@stevek said:
To win a must game - Koufax...not debatable.

Career - Randy Johnson...the only pitcher who truly frightened me, and that was just watching him on TV. LOL

I vote Johnson as well.

perkdog · June 29, 2018 3:22PM

Johnson was so frightening because he was like 6’9 and scaring the heck out of John Kruk that time adds to it

perkdog · June 29, 2018 3:38PM

Excuse me 6’10 lol

stevek · June 29, 2018 4:21PM

@perkdog said:
Johnson was so frightening because he was like 6’9 and scaring the heck out of John Kruk that time adds to it

If I was batting against Johnson, I'd be bailing out on the pitch before Johnson even threw the ball. LOL

coinkat · June 30, 2018 11:39AM

I would argue there is a difference between being the best pitcher since 1950 and the most feared....

Justacommeman · June 30, 2018 5:09PM

@coinkat said:
I would argue there is a difference between being the best pitcher since 1950 and the most feared....

Indeed. Plus Bob Gibson was more feared then Johnson imo. He was mean and would throw at your melon if you inched in at all

m

Darin · July 1, 2018 4:44PM

Lefty- Randy Johnson. Righty- Tom Seaver.

Justacommen- Which would be more frightening, knowing if you pissed Gibson off he would be throwing at you,
or facing Randy Johnson early in his career when he was wild knowing he could throw 100 mph and he had no
idea how to control where it was going.
Just don't crowd the plate on Gibson and you're fine, but standing at the plate against Johnson, its like Russian roulette.

JoeBanzai · July 1, 2018 6:10PM

Gibson explained it simply by saying he had to have the inside of the plate and some batters "hit themselves".

Got to love it!

garnettstyle · July 1, 2018 9:11PM

Seaver

dennis07 · July 3, 2018 2:33PM

Greg Maddux

coinkat · July 3, 2018 4:39PM

For the purpose of this thread most feared and most intimidating will likely considered to be one in the same. So for most feared I have three because I am not willing to name one amongst such a distinguished field covering 65 years of MLB. And these three are and in the following order

Bob Gibson, Juan Marichal and someone that most may not think of ... Sam McDowell

Keep in mind we are limiting these to feared, intimidating and imposing.

I am not sure I can name three that I consider to be the best out of guilt I would have for omitting those also deserving of such recognition.

JoeBanzai · July 3, 2018 7:25PM

Sorry, "Sudden Sam" nowhere near as good as the other two. Nice 6 year run though.

I really don't get the "feared and intimidated" thing. Thread was "best"

JoeBanzai · July 3, 2018 8:12PM

Jim Palmer should get a mention.

I think my vote will change to Seaver, pitched more games than the other contenders and was right there with ERA and WHIP.

Whitey Ford was held out of a lot of games by Casey Stengel so he could pitch against the opposing teams best pitcher. He averaged about 29 starts a year until Ralph Houk became manager in 1961, giving him 39 starts and Ford went 25-4 with 1.18 WHIP, Ford also missed 2 years in military.

JoeBanzai · July 3, 2018 8:14PM

@coinkat said:
For the purpose of this thread most feared and most intimidating will likely considered to be one in the same. So for most feared I have three because I am not willing to name one amongst such a distinguished field covering 65 years of MLB. And these three are and in the following order

Bob Gibson, Juan Marichal and someone that most may not think of ... Sam McDowell

Keep in mind we are limiting these to feared, intimidating and imposing.

I am not sure I can name three that I consider to be the best out of guilt I would have for omitting those also deserving of such recognition.

Don Drysdale was not afraid to throw chin music either.

coinkat · July 4, 2018 5:40AM

Being the best pitcher seems to require a collective analysis of things that extend beyond statistics. All I am suggesting is that fear enters into the analysis and perhaps most feared deserves attention as well.

1951WheatiesPremium · July 4, 2018 5:51AM

I like the list so far. Another guy who seems to be under appreciated to me?

Nolan Ryan. Hasn't been mentioned that I saw and certainly a worthy name.

JoeBanzai · July 4, 2018 7:07AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
I like the list so far. Another guy who seems to be under appreciated to me?

Nolan Ryan. Hasn't been mentioned that I saw and certainly a worthy name.

He certainly was a great pitcher for a long time.

In the book "The Umpire Strikes Back" ex Major League umpire Ron Luciano says when Ryan had his curve ball "working" along with his "heater" He was basically unhittable, the batters were simply over-matched.

1951WheatiesPremium · July 4, 2018 10:17AM

@JoeBanzai said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
I like the list so far. Another guy who seems to be under appreciated to me?

Nolan Ryan. Hasn't been mentioned that I saw and certainly a worthy name.

He certainly was a great pitcher for a long time.

In the book "The Umpire Strikes Back" ex Major League umpire Ron Luciano says when Ryan had his curve ball "working" along with his "heater" He was basically unhittable, the batters were simply over-matched.

I still chuckle when I see the clip of Robin Ventura. He sort of realizes it's a mistake about halfway but it's too late now...

keets · July 4, 2018 10:47AM

though there was much speculation and a supposed admittance about his "spitball" when he pitched, Gaylord Perry was among those who could be unhittable as was Bert Blyleven. the reason is because of their curve ball control and pretty good fastball that could be used with a change-up. considering those things, it made pitchers tough in the 1950-1990 era.

today, with rule changes. the game is a shadow of itself and pitchers really are at a disadvantage. a pitch at the letters and really above the waist is a ball. anything intentionally thrown inside to back a batter up is not only a ball, it risks emptying the dugouts and getting the pitcher ejected. if not for more guys who can throw 95+ and sliders that die in front of the plate the hitters own things today.

Unknown · July 4, 2018 11:27AM

This content has been removed.

DIMEMAN · July 4, 2018 4:09PM

@stevek said:
To win a must game - Koufax...not debatable.

Career - Randy Johnson...the only pitcher who truly frightened me, and that was just watching him on TV. LOL

He really scared the crap out of that bird that got in the way of his fast ball!

stevek · July 4, 2018 4:55PM

@DIMEMAN said:

@stevek said:
To win a must game - Koufax...not debatable.

Career - Randy Johnson...the only pitcher who truly frightened me, and that was just watching him on TV. LOL

He really scared the crap out of that bird that got in the way of his fast ball!

The Audubon Society actually sued MLB over this incident.

My understanding was they settled the case for an undisclosed sum out of nest.

DIMEMAN · July 4, 2018 7:08PM

@stevek said:

@DIMEMAN said:

@stevek said:
To win a must game - Koufax...not debatable.

Career - Randy Johnson...the only pitcher who truly frightened me, and that was just watching him on TV. LOL

He really scared the crap out of that bird that got in the way of his fast ball!

The Audubon Society actually sued MLB over this incident.

My understanding was they settled the case for an undisclosed sum out of nest.

That bird was at the wrong place at the wrong time! I still get a kick out of watching it.

Skin2 · July 5, 2018 1:39PM

Count on your hand how many pitchers have thrown over 300 innings while also leading the league in ERA and strikeouts. So if you are looking for a pitcher to pitch a single season for you, that is the player you take.

For anyone that can only throw 197 innings and is tapped out, then you will also need to spend a high percentage of your salary on other pitchers of similar ilk to finish the games of those pitchers. So you will not win as many games as the teams who can employ a pitcher who can pitch nine innings in a game and also limit runs at a rate of the top 2% of the pitchers in the league.

JoeBanzai · July 5, 2018 1:43PM

Please read OP. All time, not one year (or five).

Skin2 · July 5, 2018 1:54PM

It doesn't specify for how long you were looking to employ the pitcher.

Besides, you are better off having a guy retire at his prime, than getting stuck with a Kershaw contract paying him 35 million a year for 18 starts a year the last three years, lol..

1951WheatiesPremium · July 5, 2018 3:22PM

@Skin2 said:
It doesn't specify for how long you were looking to employ the pitcher.

Besides, you are better off having a guy retire at his prime, than getting stuck with a Kershaw contract paying him 35 million a year for 18 starts a year the last three years, lol..

Two long winded posts, no answer.

What's up with that?

JoeBanzai · July 6, 2018 9:57AM

@Skin2 said:
It doesn't specify for how long you were looking to employ the pitcher.

Besides, you are better off having a guy retire at his prime, than getting stuck with a Kershaw contract paying him 35 million a year for 18 starts a year the last three years, lol..

Then I'm going with Karl Spooner! 1954 Best ever! Retired one year too late ;-)

Post 1950 - best pitcher all time

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