I look at it this way, because would open them in a heartbeat.
There are five metallic lottery tickets in each box. Any one or more can be a score. You lose most of the time, but there is a chance for as many as 5 big scores. The advantage of the proof set is that it still has value once opened, unlike a losing lottery ticket.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
Tough call, I'd keep them unopened till I couldn't take it anymore. Then open up, and either live with the regret, or, enjoyment of finding cameo's, or, varieties! Either way it boils down to your collecting goals/objectives, and level of tolerance.
Here's mine I bought about 7 years ago- purchased already opened. I just wanted a nice run of '50 proofs, original packaging that looked nice. The nickel has a little toning, but all other coins are quite remarkable. The Half is close to cameo, but not there enough...
Here are pictures of box, with written date, and a bunch of other script I've always been curious about. Pic of my almost cameo Half too! When I get around to it; I'll eventually give these an acetone bath and put in a capitol plastic holder.
@earlycoins said:
Possibly a naive question, as this is not my arena, but how might one actually know what year proofs are within a box, if the box has only a hand-written note on the tape?
I've never seen a sealed 1950. That one is the toughy to me, that puppy has been floating around for 68 years and no one opened it? Biggest chance for loss, can't be too many around, arrgghhh! Decisions!
Regardless what you do, those are cool. If I had that many, there is no way I couldn't open some of them. Once I got going, its like eating M&M's, I probably couldn't stop
The very first coins I ordered from the Mint was the 1963 Uncirculated Set. The following year I ordered both the Proof Set and the Uncirculated Set. In each case I recall that the envelopes were not sealed
there has been enough evidence provided by searchers to validate that the sets were not sealed by the Mint. those that are sealed are either repackaged in new envelopes, original and sealed by the seller or sealed due to long term storage where moisture caused the glued envelope to seal itself.
the early box sets are different. they have a very unique "pull tab" which is typically located in the tape on the bottom of sets, you can see it in the OP's pictures. it was meant to be pulled to tear the tape and open the box. I have never seen any counterfeit of that or heard of such a thing. additionally, there are prolific searchers who have written books on the topic and to my knowledge they have never reported such a thing.
keep in mind, those guys know way more than us. for certain years where there is a key Variety they know by the postage date whether the sealed 100 set box will likely contain the coins they are searching for from that date.
also, as to the premium for "Sealed Sets" paid by collectors, it is no different than the phenomenon that was taking place around 2002-5 for "Still Sealed" GSA Morgan Dollars. the sheet for a typical coin was under $200 but they sold sealed for as much as $400-600 with the heavy odds being an 1883-CC MS63 baggy and not very desirable. the catch: opening the set was the quickest way to lose $200 that was going around eBay at the time, so a buyer almost had to leave the box sealed.
collectors in this Hobby often have more Dollars than sense.
Here is more information I found concerning early proof box sets. The two links are an E-Sylum article, and a post from coin talk. Both good, and informative. However the E-Sylum info on box sets should reflect through 1955, error on that I believe?
From my experience, I can state that these Proof sets shown at the beginning of this thread are not original, unopened boxes. I might have to look harder if I knew they were bought from a reputable dealer that knew the background of the sets. However, if these were purchased from one of Auction firms that sale on ProxiBid, HiBid, etc. I would say with 98% certainty they are not unopened original sets. If they were mine I would open them with the hopes that they at least held decent coins. I could not sell them to customer without knowing what they were. The boxed proof sets from the mint didn't come with any markings noting the year so the only person that knows for sure what date the coins are, beside the original buyer, is the person that has repackaged them! I haven't read all of this post so if you do open them post some photos of watch you find. I hope there will be a 1950 67 DCAM in the box.
I speak with a little experience because I have been taken before with unopened boxed sets, so don't fill bad, everyone pays for an education!!
Knowing my nature, I think it would be impossible not to open at least some of them. And after opening some of them, the others would be in hazard of the same fate.
I realize this is an old thread but since someone else resurrected it I took another look.
Not saying it proves anything, but the pen used to write the year on the boxes looks like modern ball point pen. They may have existed in 1950 but might not have that look and in any case fountain pens were still widely used. So, is want to know when those notations were supposedly written.
I wouldn't agree to or sign squat, if I paid my money to buy an unopened box of anything. I'm sure you paid considerable money for 320 boxes of coins. You don't know what is inside those boxes. Since they're all dated and you have 320+ of them, consider opening 6 various date boxes and see if any contain actual proof coins. Peace Roy
About two years ago, I was given my "birth year" proof set for my birthday. They were in an original paper box and wrappers but the seal was broken so it's kinda like when someone tells you the coins are unsearched. Sure!
Anyway, I would have opened it anyway and sent them in for grading, as I did.
PREV ARTICLE NEXT ARTICLE FULL ISSUE PREV FULL ISSUE
V19 2016 INDEX E-SYLUM ARCHIVE
The E-Sylum: Volume 19, Number 19, May 8, 2016, Article 19
MORE ON PRE-1955 U.S. PROOF SET SHIPPING BOXES
Harvey Stack submitted this interesting (and funny!) response to Bob Rightmire's question about U.S. proof set shipping boxes. Thanks! -Editor
Pre-1955 U.S. Proof Set Box 1 It was interesting to see the inquiry for information about pre-1955 Proof sets.
I remember the period 1950 to 1952 quite clearly as it was in my early days at Stack's and issue of Proof Sets once again.
As you know Proof sets were officially made and sold by the U.S. Mint starting in 1858, though there were also earlier strikings of Proof coins (called Specimen Strikings in the earlier days). Proofs were made every year from 1858 to 1915, and also 1916 Cent and Five Cents. (The two most popular series in the earlier 20th Century.
It was not until 1936 that they continued the series, when they issued 3837 sets and by 1942 they upped the number 21,120 sets, continued the series to 1950 when they struck 51,386 and slowly advanced to millions of sets today.
The bulk of the 1936-1942 sets were sent in cellophane envelopes, with a woven paper outer mailer. In 1950 the Mint introduced boxes and used them until early in 1952, when they started "flat packing the sets" in cellophane sheets and had an number of different containers for distribution for more current years.(from 1936 to 1942 the Mint also made and sold individual Cents and Five Cents in Proof (to satisfy the collectors of those series, but only a few thousand extra of each year were issued)
The introduction of boxing in 1950 caused some buyers to reject sets that came directly from the boxes of issue, if they were opened. As each box was about 3 x 3 inches in size, the Mint used packing tape to seal each set. The coins were packed in cellophane envelopes, wrapped in tissue to further protect them in shipment, were sent out in the boxes, and were kept by receivers usually in the sealed box.
1950 and 1951 Proof sets had NO MARKINGS ON THE BOX so one could not be sure what was in the box if still sealed. The BOXED sets of 1952 where STAMPED with the date. and later that year where shipped in manila envelopes, marked with the date, and coins were Flat Packed in celophane within.
So the 1950 and 1951 sets, especially to a neophyte were hard to tell WHAT WAS IN THE BOX ? Professional dealers like STACK'S quickly learned that the 1950 sets had a single packing taping around the box. and the 1951 sets had a 2 row crossed taping about the box. So when presented with fresh unopened boxes we knew what we could find inside.
However promoters and the advisers who knew less about the coin than containers they came in said, "THE VALUE WAS IN THE SEALED BOX SO DON'T OPEN IT AFTER WE SELL IT TO YOU OR THEY WILL LOSE THEIR VALUE AND ORIGINALITY." SOME ENTERPRISING SELLERS REMOVED THE PROOF SETS FROM THE BOXES, REPLACED THEM WITH MINT STATE COINS, OR SUBSTITUTED "WASHERS", RESEALED THE BOXES, AND WITH THE INSTRUCTIONS "don't open these as the will lose their originality and value", so the buyer bought real proofs or a 'pig in a poke".
Well these noted "instructions" caused problems in retail shop as Stack's had.
A client would come in and ask for a 1950 or 1951 Proof set and since we had bought a quantity direct from the Mint, we took a box out of a drawer, and proceeded to slice it open so the buyer could see just what he was buying . " don't want one from an open box," he would say, " if you have one sealed I will take it, if not, forget the sale ! "
Hearing this I or any of our other salesman would reply, "how do you know what is in the box ? how can you be sure what you are getting ? Maybe there is nothing in the box, or it is filled with sink washers, or just dirty old coins?"
The client would shout back, " I read and heard the value was in the sealed box, and if you cannot get one like I asked for, I will leave the store !" So to please the client, who was so uninformed that we took another SEALED BOX out of the draw and gently handed it to so it would not "drop on the counter" and again lose its value because the box could have been dented(?) and made the sale.
It proves that a "little knowledge is dangerous" and that you cannot get information solely from what you are told; learn about coins and how they were issued before you make the errors of your way and lose interest in collecting.
The story about "DON'T OPEN THE BOX OR IT WILL LOSE ITS VALUE" can probably be repeated today, for some old time collection can still have sealed boxes as a "store of value".
Bob is still looking for images of these pre-1955 U.S. Proof Set shipping boxes. Can anyone help? Thanks. -Editor
To read the earlier E-Sylum article, see:
QUERY: PRE-1955 U.S. PROOF SET BOXES SOUGHT (www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v19n18a10.html)
I had a two unopened mint boxes. PCGS recently opened them for grading. The only reason they were still sealed was for the “First Strike”. I would open them or sell them.
Here is the flash of brilliance for today, and pay me royalties, plus in the spirit of reconciliation after the election, here it is:
Schrodinger’s Cat: They could range from PR60 to PR69 DCAM
PCGS is under new leadership
GSA proof coins "slabbed" in the original holder
Very few unopened boxes left
Rampant fraud in "repackaging" as unopened proof sets
Mix all together and:
DING DING DING
PCGS slab for unopened sets, CAC available, with a grade of PR60/70/CAM/DCAM
The mint sealed the proof set envelopes they did not seal the white mint set envelopes unless they were mailed as individual sets with address and postage on the white envelope
You have 320+sets. The 60's series are less collectable than the 50's. If you are going to flip them, you will have to know these aren't from a scammer. You have multiples. Randomly select a couple and open them. That way your own liability will be limited and you can verify that the sets are there and blemish free
Bob Sr CEO Fieldtechs
Comments
I look at it this way, because would open them in a heartbeat.
There are five metallic lottery tickets in each box. Any one or more can be a score. You lose most of the time, but there is a chance for as many as 5 big scores. The advantage of the proof set is that it still has value once opened, unlike a losing lottery ticket.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
This
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Tough call, I'd keep them unopened till I couldn't take it anymore. Then open up, and either live with the regret, or, enjoyment of finding cameo's, or, varieties! Either way it boils down to your collecting goals/objectives, and level of tolerance.
Here's mine I bought about 7 years ago- purchased already opened. I just wanted a nice run of '50 proofs, original packaging that looked nice. The nickel has a little toning, but all other coins are quite remarkable. The Half is close to cameo, but not there enough...
Here are pictures of box, with written date, and a bunch of other script I've always been curious about. Pic of my almost cameo Half too! When I get around to it; I'll eventually give these an acetone bath and put in a capitol plastic holder.
Might only be a little tiny brick in there.
I've never seen a sealed 1950. That one is the toughy to me, that puppy has been floating around for 68 years and no one opened it? Biggest chance for loss, can't be too many around, arrgghhh! Decisions!
Regardless what you do, those are cool. If I had that many, there is no way I couldn't open some of them. Once I got going, its like eating M&M's, I probably couldn't stop
The very first coins I ordered from the Mint was the 1963 Uncirculated Set. The following year I ordered both the Proof Set and the Uncirculated Set. In each case I recall that the envelopes were not sealed
there has been enough evidence provided by searchers to validate that the sets were not sealed by the Mint. those that are sealed are either repackaged in new envelopes, original and sealed by the seller or sealed due to long term storage where moisture caused the glued envelope to seal itself.
the early box sets are different. they have a very unique "pull tab" which is typically located in the tape on the bottom of sets, you can see it in the OP's pictures. it was meant to be pulled to tear the tape and open the box. I have never seen any counterfeit of that or heard of such a thing. additionally, there are prolific searchers who have written books on the topic and to my knowledge they have never reported such a thing.
keep in mind, those guys know way more than us. for certain years where there is a key Variety they know by the postage date whether the sealed 100 set box will likely contain the coins they are searching for from that date.
also, as to the premium for "Sealed Sets" paid by collectors, it is no different than the phenomenon that was taking place around 2002-5 for "Still Sealed" GSA Morgan Dollars. the sheet for a typical coin was under $200 but they sold sealed for as much as $400-600 with the heavy odds being an 1883-CC MS63 baggy and not very desirable. the catch: opening the set was the quickest way to lose $200 that was going around eBay at the time, so a buyer almost had to leave the box sealed.
collectors in this Hobby often have more Dollars than sense.
Good info keets.
Here is more information I found concerning early proof box sets. The two links are an E-Sylum article, and a post from coin talk. Both good, and informative. However the E-Sylum info on box sets should reflect through 1955, error on that I believe?
http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v19n19a19.html
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/1950-1955-proof-sets.127635/
Could be some monster DCAMs that are toned, I would have to open them. Best of luck with your decision.
From my experience, I can state that these Proof sets shown at the beginning of this thread are not original, unopened boxes. I might have to look harder if I knew they were bought from a reputable dealer that knew the background of the sets. However, if these were purchased from one of Auction firms that sale on ProxiBid, HiBid, etc. I would say with 98% certainty they are not unopened original sets. If they were mine I would open them with the hopes that they at least held decent coins. I could not sell them to customer without knowing what they were. The boxed proof sets from the mint didn't come with any markings noting the year so the only person that knows for sure what date the coins are, beside the original buyer, is the person that has repackaged them! I haven't read all of this post so if you do open them post some photos of watch you find. I hope there will be a 1950 67 DCAM in the box.
I speak with a little experience because I have been taken before with unopened boxed sets, so don't fill bad, everyone pays for an education!!
Good Luck!
CDC
Knowing my nature, I think it would be impossible not to open at least some of them. And after opening some of them, the others would be in hazard of the same fate.
I would open every single box but that's just me.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I realize this is an old thread but since someone else resurrected it I took another look.
Not saying it proves anything, but the pen used to write the year on the boxes looks like modern ball point pen. They may have existed in 1950 but might not have that look and in any case fountain pens were still widely used. So, is want to know when those notations were supposedly written.
I wouldn't agree to or sign squat, if I paid my money to buy an unopened box of anything. I'm sure you paid considerable money for 320 boxes of coins. You don't know what is inside those boxes. Since they're all dated and you have 320+ of them, consider opening 6 various date boxes and see if any contain actual proof coins. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
About two years ago, I was given my "birth year" proof set for my birthday. They were in an original paper box and wrappers but the seal was broken so it's kinda like when someone tells you the coins are unsearched. Sure!
Anyway, I would have opened it anyway and sent them in for grading, as I did.
open or sell as is
I have seen the staples rust and cause problems to coins in pouches of the boxed sets.
How do you know it is original tape, and that the contents have not be changed out, or taken out?
FWIWThe Numismatic Bibliomania Society
PREV ARTICLE NEXT ARTICLE FULL ISSUE PREV FULL ISSUE
V19 2016 INDEX E-SYLUM ARCHIVE
The E-Sylum: Volume 19, Number 19, May 8, 2016, Article 19
MORE ON PRE-1955 U.S. PROOF SET SHIPPING BOXES
Harvey Stack submitted this interesting (and funny!) response to Bob Rightmire's question about U.S. proof set shipping boxes. Thanks! -Editor
Pre-1955 U.S. Proof Set Box 1 It was interesting to see the inquiry for information about pre-1955 Proof sets.
I remember the period 1950 to 1952 quite clearly as it was in my early days at Stack's and issue of Proof Sets once again.
As you know Proof sets were officially made and sold by the U.S. Mint starting in 1858, though there were also earlier strikings of Proof coins (called Specimen Strikings in the earlier days). Proofs were made every year from 1858 to 1915, and also 1916 Cent and Five Cents. (The two most popular series in the earlier 20th Century.
It was not until 1936 that they continued the series, when they issued 3837 sets and by 1942 they upped the number 21,120 sets, continued the series to 1950 when they struck 51,386 and slowly advanced to millions of sets today.
The bulk of the 1936-1942 sets were sent in cellophane envelopes, with a woven paper outer mailer. In 1950 the Mint introduced boxes and used them until early in 1952, when they started "flat packing the sets" in cellophane sheets and had an number of different containers for distribution for more current years.(from 1936 to 1942 the Mint also made and sold individual Cents and Five Cents in Proof (to satisfy the collectors of those series, but only a few thousand extra of each year were issued)
The introduction of boxing in 1950 caused some buyers to reject sets that came directly from the boxes of issue, if they were opened. As each box was about 3 x 3 inches in size, the Mint used packing tape to seal each set. The coins were packed in cellophane envelopes, wrapped in tissue to further protect them in shipment, were sent out in the boxes, and were kept by receivers usually in the sealed box.
1950 and 1951 Proof sets had NO MARKINGS ON THE BOX so one could not be sure what was in the box if still sealed. The BOXED sets of 1952 where STAMPED with the date. and later that year where shipped in manila envelopes, marked with the date, and coins were Flat Packed in celophane within.
So the 1950 and 1951 sets, especially to a neophyte were hard to tell WHAT WAS IN THE BOX ? Professional dealers like STACK'S quickly learned that the 1950 sets had a single packing taping around the box. and the 1951 sets had a 2 row crossed taping about the box. So when presented with fresh unopened boxes we knew what we could find inside.
However promoters and the advisers who knew less about the coin than containers they came in said, "THE VALUE WAS IN THE SEALED BOX SO DON'T OPEN IT AFTER WE SELL IT TO YOU OR THEY WILL LOSE THEIR VALUE AND ORIGINALITY." SOME ENTERPRISING SELLERS REMOVED THE PROOF SETS FROM THE BOXES, REPLACED THEM WITH MINT STATE COINS, OR SUBSTITUTED "WASHERS", RESEALED THE BOXES, AND WITH THE INSTRUCTIONS "don't open these as the will lose their originality and value", so the buyer bought real proofs or a 'pig in a poke".
Well these noted "instructions" caused problems in retail shop as Stack's had.
A client would come in and ask for a 1950 or 1951 Proof set and since we had bought a quantity direct from the Mint, we took a box out of a drawer, and proceeded to slice it open so the buyer could see just what he was buying . " don't want one from an open box," he would say, " if you have one sealed I will take it, if not, forget the sale ! "
Hearing this I or any of our other salesman would reply, "how do you know what is in the box ? how can you be sure what you are getting ? Maybe there is nothing in the box, or it is filled with sink washers, or just dirty old coins?"
The client would shout back, " I read and heard the value was in the sealed box, and if you cannot get one like I asked for, I will leave the store !" So to please the client, who was so uninformed that we took another SEALED BOX out of the draw and gently handed it to so it would not "drop on the counter" and again lose its value because the box could have been dented(?) and made the sale.
It proves that a "little knowledge is dangerous" and that you cannot get information solely from what you are told; learn about coins and how they were issued before you make the errors of your way and lose interest in collecting.
The story about "DON'T OPEN THE BOX OR IT WILL LOSE ITS VALUE" can probably be repeated today, for some old time collection can still have sealed boxes as a "store of value".
Bob is still looking for images of these pre-1955 U.S. Proof Set shipping boxes. Can anyone help? Thanks. -Editor
To read the earlier E-Sylum article, see:
QUERY: PRE-1955 U.S. PROOF SET BOXES SOUGHT (www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v19n18a10.html)
@PocketArt Had posted the link prior to my previous comment.
Most concerning info to me is that according to this article the 50's were boxed with one tape strip.
P
I had a two unopened mint boxes. PCGS recently opened them for grading. The only reason they were still sealed was for the “First Strike”. I would open them or sell them.
You still sitting on those ?
Here is the flash of brilliance for today, and pay me royalties, plus in the spirit of reconciliation after the election, here it is:
Schrodinger’s Cat: They could range from PR60 to PR69 DCAM
PCGS is under new leadership
GSA proof coins "slabbed" in the original holder
Very few unopened boxes left
Rampant fraud in "repackaging" as unopened proof sets
Mix all together and:
DING DING DING
PCGS slab for unopened sets, CAC available, with a grade of PR60/70/CAM/DCAM
I would have to open them
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
Absolutely. I want c what I have.
I c no reason not open them. How u know u did not get ripped?
The mint sealed the proof set envelopes they did not seal the white mint set envelopes unless they were mailed as individual sets with address and postage on the white envelope
Martin
You have 320+sets. The 60's series are less collectable than the 50's. If you are going to flip them, you will have to know these aren't from a scammer. You have multiples. Randomly select a couple and open them. That way your own liability will be limited and you can verify that the sets are there and blemish free
Bob Sr CEO Fieldtechs
Ffþť66c Tttt
Do a mitzvah and ship them to me for disposition.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1