Sealed boxed Proof Sets. Would you open them?
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UtahCoin
Posts: 5,350 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have a weakness/fondness for 1950-1964 proof sets and PCGS graded proof coins (same date range). Combine this with my OCD, and my inventory quickly becomes bloated. This past week I bought 320+ 1942-1964 proof sets, including the three pictured. What would you do? Option 1, rip them open to see what's inside. Option 2, sell them on eBay for some ridiculous price. Option 3, hide them in the back of the safe and try to complete a run of 1950-1955 unopened boxed proof sets.
I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
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Comments
Temptation, temptation...Open a few and see.
I have seen (in a dealers hands) fresh new looking proof set envelopes that they were using to repackage pliofilm sets because they sell better in new envelopes. To me those boxes look to good to be unopened sets. Buyer beware of 'unopened' proof sets.
Option 3 by all means!
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
Open only in the case of grading
You have touched on one of the many scams on eBay. Aftermarket Mint "Look alike" envelopes are available from many eBay sellers. Hence, many sleazy eBay sellers offer "Sealed" proof sets (in aftermarket envelopes) at inflated prices. Boxes are a different story entirely. I buy hundreds of proof sets and have done so for years. I have a pretty good idea what is original and what is not. The three boxes shown, and the dozen or so others that I just purchased are unquestionably original and unopened boxed sets.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Oh my!
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
Sorry to have to agree with this about the mentioned subject, these so-called "unopened" proof sets, but in my opinion based on a fair amount of reading on the subject, I believe that virtually all of them, if not all of them offered out there are repackaged.
Frankly, it's just too easy in this day and age to produce the original looking little box, paper, and plastic that they came in. I'm not saying the coins inside them may not be genuine, they likely are genuine, but the chances of getting a cameo, in my opinion are zero.
My viewpoint on purchasing these proof sets at this point in time, is to just buy the individual coins already PCGS graded in the grade you can afford, or buy a raw set say in a capital holder that looks good, perhaps never been dipped with exemplary toning.
That being said, if there can be incontrovertible provenance shown when looking to buy unopened proof sets, then that would change the equation.
Of course an Ebay seller claiming they were bought at an estate sale or found in grandma's closet, that would not be an example of incontrovertible provenance. LOL
After being unimpressed with what I saw in opened original boxed sets I'm sure they are worth more unopened. Remember probably not much more than 5 percent of those coins would get cameo designation and the cents don't get cameo from PCGS unless they are full red. These boxed sets represent only a small number of surviving coins produced as most if not nearly all have been opened by now. No don't open them if they appear to be 'for real' unopened sets.
The 1950 and 1953 sets have a good chance of yielding nice coins. The 1955 box set presents some problems. That year the sleeves the mint used to house them usually imparted dark and unattractive toning on the silver coins. I think that is one of the main reasons why flat pack 1955 sets sell for more than box sets. You might not be pleased if you were to see that set.
Stupid money is right - I bid on a 52 & 53 unopened sets last month at $600 and the two sold for $650 out of a legit private collection. eBay trends for unopened ones are multiples of greysheet.
Personally, if you open them with the intention of either finding varieties, toners, cameo's or other nice ones for grading - I'd do it.
If you bought them decent, and only want to flip them - "stupid eBay money is there" now, or back of the safe until you complete the run then the run would likely sell nicely too.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
Sell them now in whatever manner brings the highest return. The demand for those sets as birth year sets is going to decline as the population ages. Demand for the sets from collectors who want complete date runs will decline as the collector population slowly shrinks. If people are willing to pay stupid money for sealed sets take the money and run!
I am always interested in buying these sets.
I open them.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
I bought a lot of 10- 1961 silver proof sets still sealed in the original box from the mint, postmarked 1961. I opened it to make sure they were all in there.
They're yours..it's entirely up to you. If they were mine I'd open them... I would be interested in the coin / coins not the sealed box.
Yes, that was a good strategy. Sometimes the coins were removed from the envelopes and the sheets of zinc were stuck in to replece them. You also could get lucky and find a two sided cameo coin that would greatly increase the value, although that's not something you should expect.
I would just put them in the safe the way they are and forget about them for a while if you think they are truly unopened. More and more will get opened every day so what do you have to lose
HAPPY COLLECTING
Phooy on boxes - its the coins inside that really matters - Give them to me and I will open them if you lack the will power!
WS
Please stop teasing us. You know you want to open them! We are coin and not cardboard collectors! Do you really want to wait a few decades to find out what is inside of cracker jack?
Look @Outhaul and his mystery box. https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987212
Prize revealed
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/988081/
If I did not want to go through the time and expense of getting the coins graded I would not open them. Either sell or stash but don't open if you don't play the grading game.
bob
Sell as is, take the money you will get, and don't look back.
Do you want to sell or grade? Sell don't open - grade open, let us see the nice coins inside when you open them.
Hoard the keys.
OR you could find one of these! I did - multiple times!
I have a question - were the individual envelopes sealed inside the original box?
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
I have a 1955 sealed box looking similar like yours and an opened 1953 box with dark red color 1c which is lovely. One day I will cut the tape of my 1955 set with a razor blade to open it. Thanks for showing your beautiful sets.
Here is a suggestion.
Sell the unopened sets to a buyer pursuant to a purchase and sale agreement (yes put it in writing and have both the buyer and seller sign it) that provides:
the purchase/sale price agreed upon by the buyer and seller;
the buyer opens the boxes in your presence after the purchase/sale price is paid to you;
you have the right to require to require that the buyer submit coins chosen by you for grading by PCGS (with you paying the costs of grading and shipping);
upon completion of grading and return of the coins from PCGS the buyer will pay to you an extra 10% of the market value of each graded coin (i.e. market value being determined by looking at auction results for sales of graded examples of each coin within the past 6 months); and
if you decide that none of the coins are to be sent in for grading (because they are all average run of mill coins) you will refund to the buyer 10% of the purchase/sale price.
The percentages set forth above of course can be changed to meet the needs and wants of the buyer and seller.
An agreement such as the above will give both the buyer and the seller a continued interest in the coins in the sealed sets after the sets are opened, as the seller can obtain additional money if one or more coins are homeruns and the buyer can obtain a refund of a part of his/her purchase price if the coins are run of the mill.
A little kicker for both sides, with each side having some skin in the game after the purchase price is paid for the sets and ownership is transferred to the buyer.
If these sets were offered to me as a buyer, I would be willing to consider deal terms such as those set forth above. I suspect other interested buyers would do the same.
the envelopes were all in perfect shape, the tan color of the envelopes wasn't faded a bit and still sealed, when I opened the shipping box I got a big whiff of a old musty odor, the same smell is in my safe, I never opened any of the envelopes, figured they were worth more sealed, all 10 sets were there and the weight was perfect, so put all 10 sets back in the box unopened and put them away
Thanks - there has been an ongoing debate as to whether those envelopes were sealed at the mint or not. So far it appears that there is some variation - or that they self-seal over time with humidity. This might have been the case if the box was musty.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
thanks for telling me about the double die reverse, now that I know there was a variety for that year, I will open a few. if one has it, they probably all do as they are in the same run. I love error coins. I bought the unopen box about 10 years ago by the way and I got a great price on the sealed box lot
I would be curious. I think it would get the best of me. Do you have a shop here in utah? @utahcoin
From what I've read, the mint did not seal those envelopes.
There is actually 4 DDRs for the '61 proof Franklin, but only the 'big one' carries a premium.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
That's why I asked.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Sorry to have to agree with this about the mentioned subject, these so-called "unopened" proof sets, but in my opinion based on a fair amount of reading on the subject, I believe that virtually all of them, if not all of them offered out there are repackaged
while it is reasonable to assume the 1956-1964 Proof Sets in the Manila envelopes may be repackaged after-market envelopes that are resealed, I would challenge those saying these boxes are probably the same. just because they look nice and fresh there is nothing I have ever seen or been told to indicate these boxes have been opened and re-taped. past that, I would expect the coins to most likely be nothing special but they'll probably be in pretty good shape because they haven't been looked at many, many times.
it is the repeated flipping of the envelopes, the dry cracking plastic flakes and the rusted metal dust from the staple that causes all the hairlining on these. also, since the 1955 and maybe the 1954 will be in the polybags there is a chance they have started to turn black or hazy.
I've never understood the sealed box or envelope proof set fascination. When I was a kid there was the "Grab Bag" in every store in town. It was a bin of paper bags with a mystery item in them. We paid our dime and then OPENED the bag to see what we bought. Usually it was something like out of a Cracker Jack box. But it was fun because we SAW what we got ripped off for. I know......It's just me. Carry on!
SELL on Ebay. Put $500 starting bid or $620 BIN. No returns. Wish I had your dilemma.
Insider2 offers good advise. Still...just not for me.
they will be opened eventually, might as well be you...
Possibly a naive question, as this is not my arena, but how might one actually know what year proofs are within a box, if the box has only a hand-written note on the tape?
I would have to open them.
Collector, occasional seller
I had 1950s proof and mint sets.....put them all in dansco albums.....crazy to do moneywize but I have been enjoying both sides of those sets for decades now
Option 4: Sell the lesser desired dates on ebay to pay for the ones you get to open.
Bet there's some monster toning in those boxes.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Option 5: Send me a couple and I'll let you know what I find.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
I would have a difficult time selling an 'un-opened' box. What if inside is not what you think?
The very first coins I ordered from the Mint was the 1963 Uncirculated Set. The following year I ordered both the Proof Set and the Uncirculated Set. In each case I recall that the envelopes were not sealed.
I knew it would happen.
Good luck with your "No return scenario." Maybe on the BST, but not gonna fly on eBay, unless it's listed in the bullion category.
You bought 320+ proof sets? Holy cow! There had to be some DCAM's in that batch.
I can't imagine anyone being interested in such an offer. It's akin to selling a coin to a buyer and making them promise to split any profits if the coin upgrades at a TPGS. Why would a buyer want to do that? The only way I would do that, as a buyer, is if I also had the right to pay LESS if the coins end up being ugly (your 10% refund). But why would I do that as a SELLER? Now I'm selling it for less than I could get and undermining the whole value of being "unopened".
What you are really doing is acting like an amateur and trying to hedge your sale just in case you accidentally sell something valuable. But the whole point of buying unopened sets for a premium is the possibility of getting something valuable.
My thinking has not progressed beyond this point.
Smitten with DBLCs.
Excellent point!
And who knows? Maybe they're not proofs.
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
Ever hear of "Shrodinger's Cat"?
In unopened boxes, all the coins exist as winners AND as losers.
Confused? Maybe this will help:
My point is, I'd definitely open the boxes I planned to sell. Profits might suffer, but I'd sleep better knowing I'd verified the contents of each box.
And I'd keep some unopened "mystery boxes" for future enjoyment.
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
The only 'unopened' coins I have purchased were GSA CC Morgans... from a very reliable forum member.... Of course, I opened them. For me, it is imperative to view what I purchase.... So, I recommend opening them. However, if sales are important, then you will likely profit more by flipping them unopened. And - here's the catch - You will NEVER know if there was a major treasure in the unopened box.
Cheers, RickO