TrueView: 1789 Token 1/2D DH-8 Devonshire Plymouth in MS-63BN. The single finest known.

Senator32

I have looked this up in the DH book but am not exactly sure of its rarity level - if any of you token collectors know how rare it is let me know. This is the only example I can find graded at either service...and survived in the insane grade of MS-63.

Insider2

Nice Token. I've been partial to anything dated 1789 due to my school. Anyway, I guess no one can argue that it is THE SINGLE FINEST KNOWN in the world.

Senator32

Yeah - it is very cool. I thought it may be PR or SP due to the strike strength and raised edges, but I guess not. Found it as DH-8 in the token book ( https://www.dropbox.com/s/0qnancwzpghipt9/Coinage of the 18th Century.pdf ) but have yet to see another one around or seen a sale for one. I plan on keeping this one since it is so cool, but was just curious as to market value...but my guess is this would have to go to auction to find out.

Timbuk3

OMG, that is so nice !!!

harasha

@Insider2 . Georgetown?

Insider2

Close, Georgetown Prep.

Rexford

Nice piece. Halfpenny tokens are generally common in mint state though.

brg5658

@Rexford said:
Nice piece. Halfpenny tokens are generally common in mint state though.

Some are common; others (the ones that were actually used in commerce) can be pretty scarce in mint state.

I would actually classify the "token" posted in the OP as a commemorative "medalet" - it is halfpenny-size, but it was not intended for commerce. Conder also classified it that way in his 1798 treatise (on page 312).

brg5658

For the record, another example of this token sold in Baldwin auction 102 (lot 1963) in Oct 2016 that is just as nice if not slightly nicer than the one posted here. The pre-auction estimate was 80-100 GBP. I couldn't find the actual hammer.

I always find these "nicest one in the world" claims to be pretty humorous on coin forums.

Stork

Perhaps 'single finest graded' would be more accurate And even then you really have to LOOK at them all to decide which one really is 'better'. Is a technical grade more important than an eye appeal bump????

brg5658

@Stork said:
Perhaps 'single finest graded' would be more accurate And even then you really have to LOOK at them all to decide which one really is 'better'. Is a technical grade more important than an eye appeal bump????

Even if it were graded P01, it would still be the "single finest graded". The TPGs seem to encourage people to frame everything as a plastic-entombed pissing match. Just a humorous observation (to me anyway).

Senator32

Meh, the one you posted from Baldwins would grade AU. Wear on the portrait and not nearly as well struck (look how much deeper mine is). I will maintain that this is the finest known until I can find one better

You

https://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail/great-britain-temp/1285/4610 There are hundreds and hundreds of different varieties of Condor tokens graded by PCGS. Most have a population of one, like your example, and most have an uncirculated grade. The average grade is probably MS63 or higher, in fact. Having the single condor token of the type at a certain grade doesn't mean much unless the variety is rare or the grade is 66 or so. It certainly isn't "insane". People simply don't submit Condor tokens or foreign non-bullion coins in general to grading services the same way people submit US coins, so having a top pop of a foreign coin at a grading service doesn't mean much overall.

For the record, the example posted above does look better than yours - it looks lustrous and slightly prooflike. There also isn't any wear on it - it's just a bad image. Your example actually does have some wear on the high points - look at the hair curls, the cheek, and the eyebrows, as well as the high points of the drapes on the reverse.

Boosibri

Most of these have not been graded. It’s pretty ridiculous to assert that this is the single finest known.

brg5658

@Senator32 said:
Meh, the one you posted from Baldwins would grade AU. Wear on the portrait and not nearly as well struck (look how much deeper mine is). I will maintain that this is the finest known until I can find one better

The only thing better about your example is the PCGS glamour picture. I'd take the Baldwins example any day of the week and can tell as much from even the shoddy Baldwin catalog pictures.

I'm not sure what you're seeing as wear, but OK...

Regardless, it's not a particularly compelling design. That combined with the fact that it is effectively a commemorative medal ("token") means that it is not going to turn many heads.

Don't get me wrong. It is a very nice example of an old piece of copper. This kind of material is right in my wheelhouse. But, its value is probably about $150 if fairly priced and minus the "best in the world" plastic hype.

farthing

The token is listed as Scarce by Dalton & Hamer, which seems about right. I have 17 sales listed in my records, Dr. Sriro has 26 sales in his database. The Baldwins example sold for 110GBP. I own an example myself from Bill McKivor.

There have been 2 auction sales since the Baldwins sale, both by Dix Noonan Web. A Silver plated example in their Dec. 2016 auction and a Copper example as part of lot 666 in their Nov. 2017 sale. The token does get auctioned off as part of a lot with some frequency, for what it is worth.