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1863 IHC possible new variety?
Omegaraptor
Posts: 528 ✭✭✭✭✭
I purchased this 1863 IHC at the PNNA Seattle show for $6, noting the reverse retained cud that the dealer didn’t notice.
A retained cud can be seen between 1:15 and 2:30 on the reverse. Although it is hard to see in the pics, the two cracks are connected, meeting the definition of a retained cud. I checked both indianvarieties.com and David Poliquin’s webbook and could not find anything resembling this coin.
I have emailed one of the IHC variety guys with pics of the coin suggesting that it could be a new discovery. Thoughts?
"You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."
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I've seen this one. I do not know if it is listed.
Ive seen this also
Neat coin.
Nice pick up
Congratulations !!!
Snow lists a retained cud as S10, which is also a doubled die reverse. Not sure the grade is high enough to see the doubling, which shows best on the leaves on the right side of the coin.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
As much as I wish it was, the cud is in a different position than on my coin.
"You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."
The S10 refers to the Snow variety in his book, the position of the cud is the same as on your coin.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
It seems to be close to matching to "Variety 46" on indiancentvarieties.com:
http://www.indiancentvarieties.com/1863_variety046.html
Seems slightly different, though.
What do you think?
I wouldn't say you have a CUD until you get more than just two cracks. There are many Indians out there with cracks in one or both of those places.
It doesn't seem to match up with Var 46. The 1:15 and 2:30 cracks are in slightly different positions, there is no 3:15 crack, the obverse cracks are nonexistent, and the other reverse cracks do not exist.
"You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."
It's the position that's most important.
The nonexistent cracks could be from later die states.
For a cud you need a raised field along the entire crack.
Still, the complete crack is pretty cool by itself.
Nice find, I would call that coin's issue 'die crack' and not yet a retained cud...Cheers, RickO
I'd have to agree with the above two posts. To me a cud is a die break resulting in a missing piece of the die, or a piece that is breaking away (retained). Yours seems to be a die crack, which of course could have led to a cud in a later state.
I agree with the above posts. “Retained cud” is kind of an oxymoron.