@BloodMan said:
Stack’s-Bowers will be offering the Fairmont Collection of Liberty Head Double Eagles on June 21st as part of the 2018 Baltimore auction. In the auction catalog it was described as one of the finest collections ever formed. The Fairmont Collection was recently entered into the PCGS Registry and is currently the second finest in the category “Liberty Head $20 Gold with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes (1850-1907)”, second to the DL Hansen set, formerly AWA collection.
In the catalog there is little information on the background of the collection. Typically, big name sets have a significant amount of information on the consigner, when the set was assembled, who helped assemble the collection and what the goals were when assembling the collection. This type of information was provided in great detail for the Gilded Age collection of mint state double eagles sold by Stack’s-Bowers several years ago.
Does anyone have any information on the Fairmont Collection that can be shared?
Overall, the set looks fresh. There are very few coins that I have seen previously offered. Could this be an old-time raw set that was recently slabbed? Overall, the coins in the set look original, with a few exceptions.
There are 148 coins offered in the Fairmont Collection. Looking at the Type 1 Double Eagles, the CAC approval rate is almost 50%, which is pretty high for a set assembled in the years prior to CAC.
By my count there are only ten coins missing, all of which are rarities or ultra-rarities (1854-O, 1855-O, 1856-O, 1860-O, 1861-O, 1870-CC, 1881, 1882, 1885, 1891). The 1868 $20 PCGS MS61 is listed in the catalog but not available online.
By my estimation, the top coins in the Fairmont Collection are:
1854 $20 Large Date PCGS MS61 CAC
1857-O $20 PCGS MS60
1858-O $20 PCGS AU55
1859-O $20 PCGS AU53
1861-S $20 Paquet PCGS AU53 CAC (Highlight on the collection)
1862 $20 PCGS AU50 CAC
1863 $20 PCGS MS60
1866-S $20 No Motto. PCGS XF45 CAC
1866-S $20. Motto. PCGS MS61
1868-S $20 PCGS MS62
1871-CC $20 PCGS XF45
1872-CC $20 PCGS AU55 CAC
1873-CC $20 PCGS AU58 CAC
1879-O $20 PCGS XF45
1885-CC $20 PCGS AU58 CAC
1891-CC $20 PCGS AU55
1892 $20 PCGS MS60
Does anyone have any information on the Fairmont Collection that can be shared? I realize that some consigners like to remain anonymous, and this might be the case. Just curious about this interesting collection.
Any comments on the collection in general are welcome.
The Fairmont Collection is definitely impressive! The coins look fresh, and the high CAC approval rate shows how carefully the set was built. It seems like it could have been a long-time private collection that was recently graded. The lack of background info does make it more mysterious, but maybe the owner wanted to stay private. Either way, it’s exciting to see these coins come to market. Would love to hear if anyone knows more about its history!
@BloodMan said:
Stack’s-Bowers will be offering the Fairmont Collection of Liberty Head Double Eagles on June 21st as part of the 2018 Baltimore auction. In the auction catalog it was described as one of the finest collections ever formed. The Fairmont Collection was recently entered into the PCGS Registry and is currently the second finest in the category “Liberty Head $20 Gold with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes (1850-1907)”, second to the DL Hansen set, formerly AWA collection.
In the catalog there is little information on the background of the collection. Typically, big name sets have a significant amount of information on the consigner, when the set was assembled, who helped assemble the collection and what the goals were when assembling the collection. This type of information was provided in great detail for the Gilded Age collection of mint state double eagles sold by Stack’s-Bowers several years ago.
Does anyone have any information on the Fairmont Collection that can be shared?
Overall, the set looks fresh. There are very few coins that I have seen previously offered. Could this be an old-time raw set that was recently slabbed? Overall, the coins in the set look original, with a few exceptions.
There are 148 coins offered in the Fairmont Collection. Looking at the Type 1 Double Eagles, the CAC approval rate is almost 50%, which is pretty high for a set assembled in the years prior to CAC.
By my count there are only ten coins missing, all of which are rarities or ultra-rarities (1854-O, 1855-O, 1856-O, 1860-O, 1861-O, 1870-CC, 1881, 1882, 1885, 1891). The 1868 $20 PCGS MS61 is listed in the catalog but not available online.
By my estimation, the top coins in the Fairmont Collection are:
1854 $20 Large Date PCGS MS61 CAC
1857-O $20 PCGS MS60
1858-O $20 PCGS AU55
1859-O $20 PCGS AU53
1861-S $20 Paquet PCGS AU53 CAC (Highlight on the collection)
1862 $20 PCGS AU50 CAC
1863 $20 PCGS MS60
1866-S $20 No Motto. PCGS XF45 CAC
1866-S $20. Motto. PCGS MS61
1868-S $20 PCGS MS62
1871-CC $20 PCGS XF45
1872-CC $20 PCGS AU55 CAC
1873-CC $20 PCGS AU58 CAC
1879-O $20 PCGS XF45
1885-CC $20 PCGS AU58 CAC
1891-CC $20 PCGS AU55
1892 $20 PCGS MS60
Does anyone have any information on the Fairmont Collection that can be shared? I realize that some consigners like to remain anonymous, and this might be the case. Just curious about this interesting collection.
Any comments on the collection in general are welcome.
The Fairmont Collection is definitely impressive! The coins look fresh, and the high CAC approval rate shows how carefully the set was built. It seems like it could have been a long-time private collection that was recently graded. The lack of background info does make it more mysterious, but maybe the owner wanted to stay private. Either way, it’s exciting to see these coins come to market. Would love to hear if anyone knows more about its history!
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You are right, there’s been some impressive coins that have sold under the Fairmont banner. Fairmont is really a hoard rather than an actual collection.
No one really knows the source, which leads to rampant speculation.
Go to raregoldcoins.com ( Doug Winters) site and under the Articles tab, you can learn a much more detailed analysis of Fairmont.
@Clackamas1 said:
The 1868-S went from a POP 44 in MS to a POP 87 in MS which it has essentially doubled. The 68-P went from 14 to >22 MS coins a 33% increase
I am having trouble understanding how that Wayback thing works, but I'll take your word for it.
It is an internet archive. You can see what a web page was like years in the past. With the PCGS pops it is a record of what the POPs were and compare to now. It makes it easy to see the POP growth without having to have tracked and kept the records.
@Clackamas1 said:
The 1868-S went from a POP 44 in MS to a POP 87 in MS which it has essentially doubled. The 68-P went from 14 to >22 MS coins a 33% increase
I am having trouble understanding how that Wayback thing works, but I'll take your word for it.
A doubling of the entire MS population census would seem pretty big to me. How did pricing hold up for the 1868-S in your study ?
That Wayback screen is excellent! You can split your screen, with the current PCGS Pop screen and compare DEs by each year and grade and see the increase in population. Nice!
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The way I have tried to approach potential Fairmont purchases were to concentrate on initially low mintages. I reasoned that if the initial mintage was relatively high, there would be a much better chance these issues could very well ‘show up’ in the future, which has been the case!
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Lot less risk buying an 1860-O DE with a mintage of 6,600 compared with a 1868-S DE, mintage 837,000!
Oh well, just my .02 c.
Selling yourself short. That approach is worth more than .02 cents
@GoldFinger1969 said: Does anybody have a TOTAL population census for surviving Liberty Head Double Eagles ?
I know the figure is just under 4 MM for Saints but have never seen a total population estimate for Liberty Head DEs.
PCGS Coin Facts gives the estimated survival number for each coin. It will take some time, but you could just add the number for each Liberty G$20 date and mintmark to get an estimated total for the series. I doubt these numbers have been revised since the Fairmount hoard came on the market so they will be on the low side. Also, if you do the same for the Saints, you'll find that 4 million coins is too low. PCGS Coin Facts estimates a survival of 3 million for just the 1908NM and 1924 alone.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@Clackamas1 said:
I would pay a premium to cherry pick for a specific date. I know that the 1868-S sold in 3/18 for $43K in 62 upgraded to 62+ and sold for $120K. It is clearly the nicest $20 for the date/mm at PCGS and the other 62+s have not garnered $25K recently and I understand why, there could crash the MS POP's The NGC 63's that sold are better and sold for $40K. That quashed the PCGS 62+ coin in both auctions since they were nicer coins. So someone paid $120K for a 62+ and better coins came around and sold for $40K. I think the NGC coins are Fairmont coins because the strike is weak on all of these including the one known Fairmont (PCGS 62+) and the reverse is crisp on others. The two NGC 63's have the same reverse die crack and the 62+ appears like it is struck through but a different die pair.
It is going to suck owning one of these when dozens, if not hundreds of other MS coins hit the market some probably in GEM.
The 1868-S that sold for $120k was a mint error IMHO...
@pcgscacgold said:
Selling yourself short. That approach is worth more than .02 cents
Never sell yourself short, as Judge Smails once said. You could be a tremendous slouch.
He also said you'll get nothing and like it, which of course refers to the common date value appreciation of Fairmont DEs long term not linked to metal prices.
@PerryHall said:
PCGS Coin Facts gives the estimated survival number for each coin. It will take some time, but you could just add >the number for each Liberty G$20 date and mintmark to get an estimated total for the series. I doubt these >numbers have been revised since the Fairmount hoard came on the market so they will be on the low side. Also, if >you do the same for the Saints, you'll find that 4 million coins is too low. PCGS Coin Facts estimates a survival of 3 >million for just the 1908NM and 1924 alone.
Thanks Perry....I didn't see that option at Coin Facts before you mentioned it. It's better than nothing.
FWIW, I went back to The Whitman Red Book on DEs (Bowers, 2004) and just took his Field Population Survivor numbers at the high end and added them up for all 3 types of Liberty Head DEs....comes to just over 6.4 MM.
Now...if he re-did those numbers today, esp. after Fairmont, my guess is they'd probably jump closer to 7 MM if not more. JMHO.
The 1868-S that sold for $120k was a mint error IMHO...
What do you mean? I ended up buying the 62+ that was in this last auction. I got tired of holding out and just decided to get one. If a nicer one comes up I will replace it.
The 1868-S that sold for $120k was a mint error IMHO...
What do you mean? I ended up buying the 62+ that was in this last auction. I got tired of holding out and just decided to get one. If a nicer one comes up I will replace it.
You wrote, "I know that the 1868-S sold in 3/18 for $43K in 62 upgraded to 62+ and sold for $120K."
My opinion is the only reason it sold for so much was because it's a mint error (even though that isn't noted on the slab). I think the HA listing described the problem IIRC.
From what you wrote, someone might mistakenly assume the coin increased in value because of the upgrade you mentioned. I'm pretty sure that's not the case here.
I own one of the 62s with a sticker (PCGS slab), so I've seen that $120k coin before. Just adding some clarification in case anyone might benefit from it.
Wow...you mean it literally photocopies every freaking web page out there ? How the heck can it do that ?
It's uses bots called "web crawlers". These are programs that suck up and store as many internet pages as possible. The Wayback machine is the largest and most comprehensive at archive.org
Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
More comments on Fairmont Coins on $5 Half-Eagles from Doug Winter:
"...Unlike series such as Dahlonega half eagles, there is not enough collecting depth in a series such as Indian Head half eagles to survive a Fairmont Onslaught.
Dates such as 1909-O, 1911-D, and 1912-S through 1914-S have lost around 10-20% of their value in grades MS61 through MS63 from 2021 to 2024—and this is in a market in which gold has risen over $1,000 since it skidded down to the $1610-1620 range in October/November 2022.
In PCGS MS61, populations for the 1909-O have gone from 29 with 50 finer in 2021, to 38 with 61 finer in 2024. That’s 20 new coins and even if we weed out a few due to resubmissions, that’s still around 15 coins. There are not 15 collectors who care about this date in any grade, let alone in MS61 where a nice quality PCGS/CAC coin will set you back $30k+.
Fairmont has not had as significant an impact on better date Indian Head eagles in MS62 through MS64, as these appear not to be as plentiful."
And on Double Eagles from Fairmont:
"The sad reality is that there are just too many common date and slightly better dates from Fairmont.
The more common New Orleans issues (1850-O through 1853-O) have actually held their values reasonably well. As an example, there were four PCGS AU55 1851-O double eagles sold at auction in the second half of 2024, with prices realized between $7,200 and $7,800. Pre-Fairmont, these were worth around $9k, and the quality of the typical coin was way below that seen on the coins from the hoard.
Two Philadelphia issues were totally slammed this year: the 1853/’2’, and the 1854 Large Date. The former is a “fauxverdate” which was a bad deal when AU55s were worth $10,000. Today, this variety is a hard sale at $5,000 in this grade but for a good reason; it’s not a damn overdate!!! The 1854 Large Date is a legitimate variety but it appears that most collectors are content to fill the 1854-P hole in their set with a cheaper 1854 Small Date. Pre-Fairmont, this was an $11,000-13,000 coin in AU55. Today, you’ll be able to buy a nice non-CAC crusty example from the hoard for less than $7,000.
The key date 1862 has retained much of its pre-Fairmont value but for an obvious reason: it’s a Civil War issue and this gives it a substantially larger pool of buyers."
Comments
The Fairmont Collection is definitely impressive! The coins look fresh, and the high CAC approval rate shows how carefully the set was built. It seems like it could have been a long-time private collection that was recently graded. The lack of background info does make it more mysterious, but maybe the owner wanted to stay private. Either way, it’s exciting to see these coins come to market. Would love to hear if anyone knows more about its history!
>
>
You are right, there’s been some impressive coins that have sold under the Fairmont banner. Fairmont is really a hoard rather than an actual collection.
No one really knows the source, which leads to rampant speculation.
Go to raregoldcoins.com ( Doug Winters) site and under the Articles tab, you can learn a much more detailed analysis of Fairmont.
It is an internet archive. You can see what a web page was like years in the past. With the PCGS pops it is a record of what the POPs were and compare to now. It makes it easy to see the POP growth without having to have tracked and kept the records.
Wow...you mean it literally photocopies every freaking web page out there ? How the heck can it do that ?
I don't know how it does it but it has a record of a website I wrote that was operational from 2001-2002 that had (maybe) 75 unique visitors all time.
It can drag you into a rabbit hole. It is comprehensive.
Selling yourself short. That approach is worth more than .02 cents
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Never sell yourself short, as Judge Smails once said. You could be a tremendous slouch.
Does anybody have a TOTAL population census for surviving Liberty Head Double Eagles ?
I know the figure is just under 4 MM for Saints but have never seen a total population estimate for Liberty Head DEs.
PCGS Coin Facts gives the estimated survival number for each coin. It will take some time, but you could just add the number for each Liberty G$20 date and mintmark to get an estimated total for the series. I doubt these numbers have been revised since the Fairmount hoard came on the market so they will be on the low side. Also, if you do the same for the Saints, you'll find that 4 million coins is too low. PCGS Coin Facts estimates a survival of 3 million for just the 1908NM and 1924 alone.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The 1868-S that sold for $120k was a mint error IMHO...
He also said you'll get nothing and like it, which of course refers to the common date value appreciation of Fairmont DEs long term not linked to metal prices.
Thanks Perry....I didn't see that option at Coin Facts before you mentioned it. It's better than nothing.
FWIW, I went back to The Whitman Red Book on DEs (Bowers, 2004) and just took his Field Population Survivor numbers at the high end and added them up for all 3 types of Liberty Head DEs....comes to just over 6.4 MM.
Now...if he re-did those numbers today, esp. after Fairmont, my guess is they'd probably jump closer to 7 MM if not more. JMHO.
What do you mean? I ended up buying the 62+ that was in this last auction. I got tired of holding out and just decided to get one. If a nicer one comes up I will replace it.
You wrote, "I know that the 1868-S sold in 3/18 for $43K in 62 upgraded to 62+ and sold for $120K."
My opinion is the only reason it sold for so much was because it's a mint error (even though that isn't noted on the slab). I think the HA listing described the problem IIRC.
From what you wrote, someone might mistakenly assume the coin increased in value because of the upgrade you mentioned. I'm pretty sure that's not the case here.
I own one of the 62s with a sticker (PCGS slab), so I've seen that $120k coin before. Just adding some clarification in case anyone might benefit from it.
It's uses bots called "web crawlers". These are programs that suck up and store as many internet pages as possible. The Wayback machine is the largest and most comprehensive at archive.org
More comments on Fairmont Coins on $5 Half-Eagles from Doug Winter:
"...Unlike series such as Dahlonega half eagles, there is not enough collecting depth in a series such as Indian Head half eagles to survive a Fairmont Onslaught.
Dates such as 1909-O, 1911-D, and 1912-S through 1914-S have lost around 10-20% of their value in grades MS61 through MS63 from 2021 to 2024—and this is in a market in which gold has risen over $1,000 since it skidded down to the $1610-1620 range in October/November 2022.
In PCGS MS61, populations for the 1909-O have gone from 29 with 50 finer in 2021, to 38 with 61 finer in 2024. That’s 20 new coins and even if we weed out a few due to resubmissions, that’s still around 15 coins. There are not 15 collectors who care about this date in any grade, let alone in MS61 where a nice quality PCGS/CAC coin will set you back $30k+.
Fairmont has not had as significant an impact on better date Indian Head eagles in MS62 through MS64, as these appear not to be as plentiful."
And on Double Eagles from Fairmont:
"The sad reality is that there are just too many common date and slightly better dates from Fairmont.
The more common New Orleans issues (1850-O through 1853-O) have actually held their values reasonably well. As an example, there were four PCGS AU55 1851-O double eagles sold at auction in the second half of 2024, with prices realized between $7,200 and $7,800. Pre-Fairmont, these were worth around $9k, and the quality of the typical coin was way below that seen on the coins from the hoard.
Two Philadelphia issues were totally slammed this year: the 1853/’2’, and the 1854 Large Date. The former is a “fauxverdate” which was a bad deal when AU55s were worth $10,000. Today, this variety is a hard sale at $5,000 in this grade but for a good reason; it’s not a damn overdate!!! The 1854 Large Date is a legitimate variety but it appears that most collectors are content to fill the 1854-P hole in their set with a cheaper 1854 Small Date. Pre-Fairmont, this was an $11,000-13,000 coin in AU55. Today, you’ll be able to buy a nice non-CAC crusty example from the hoard for less than $7,000.
The key date 1862 has retained much of its pre-Fairmont value but for an obvious reason: it’s a Civil War issue and this gives it a substantially larger pool of buyers."
https://raregoldcoins.com/blog/annual-hot-or-not-2024