Options
Eric P. Newman's 1792 Washington President Gold piece to be sold
Coinosaurus
Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
Heritage Auctions will do the honors on Thursday, August 16 at the Philadelphia ANA (ha.com/1792gold).
7
Coinosaurus
Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Looks awesome, can't wait to read the lot description and see the coin.
Andrew Blinkiewicz-Heritage
....And a 22 page booklet on just this one auction lot item!
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
amazing! what a cool piece of history. imagine the people president washington must have shown it to or who were in his presence while the coin was in his pocket. fascinating.
Amazing
It's a really cool and valuable object, but it's totally inconsistent with everything we know about George Washington to think that he'd carry around a gold medal with his portrait on it. It's much more likely that someone else - maybe someone historically interesting - carried it as a memento because Washington was so admired, and that the story of being his pocket piece is old as the hills because it added value 150 years ago just as it does today.
neat, i like
I'm the last person you want to like it-and I think I do......just need to verify the facts. still, the coin it self is pretty cool and I LOVE patterns-assuming it is
List it on the BST and save the auction house fees
Interesting piece, what do you all think it will realize? 1M? More? Less?
Great pic of Mr. Newman with his treasure
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Amazing piece of history, and graded NGC45. Look forward to watching the auction online at least. I have to be in Beantown that week and cannot go to Summer ANA for the first time in years......... Will the specialist get it crossed when she wins?
Best, SH
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
I can't see this selling less than a million.
Even thought GW's pants didn't have pockets, it's still a cute story.
The Victoria and Albert museum has an interesting write-up on pockets -- vam.ac.uk/content/articles/a/history-of-pockets. The short version is that, yes, there were pockets in the 18th century, and there were coins in them.
I think the more salient point is the pedigree, and any known connections between Myers (where it shows up in the 1850s) and GW.
In Eric's own words:
"To prove its ownership by George Washington requires a review of circumstantial evidence, and it is up to the reader to evaluate how convincing that proof may be."
Setting aside the Washington provenance for a moment, it's still a unique pattern, an important piece of history, and one very valuable coin...whose proceeds will go to a good cause!
For those interested, here's the auction catalog on the piece: https://heritagestatic.com/c/d/cms/916/555/uscoins-newman-presidential-coin.91655563.pdf
Wow, "amazing" !!!
The linked booklet is a great read in itself.
Interesting history - even if not totally verifiable....Unique piece and it is gold.... This should certainly fetch in excess of seven figures....Cheers, RickO
RE: Pockets. Ah, thanks for the added information. I was going by the displays and staff at Mt. Vernon.
Who wins this coin will have to buy the story as I imagine it won’t go cheap
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Given Washington's opposition to his own image on coins (as well as the fact that this item was not included in the exhaustive list of Washington's gold and silver holdings when he died), I think it's reasonable to say that the "Washington's pocket piece" thing is a bit of fanciful commercial puffery. It's a cute coin.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
The "fact" that GW opposed having his image on coins is actually only oral history. There is nothing in the contemporary documents demonstrating this. The best source is a few pages summarizing the Congressional debate (March 1792) on whether to put GW on the first U.S. Mint coins, and there is nothing in there stating GW has an opinion one way or the other. (The congressional debate was more driven by Federalist v. Republican politics than anything else - some things never change.)
The absence of the piece in the Mount Vernon inventory is more significant.
Was the coin struck for Washington, or no?
Eric's research suggests that this coin was struck expressly for, given to, and carried by President George Washington.
So, you can believe the nation's pre-eminent numismatic researcher, or not.
I knew it would happen.
$1M? Pfffft. Try $4-5M on for size...
Is there any evidence this was even connected to the Gov?
This is why I hate stuff that looks legit when it isn’t. The truth almost always loses to the fun story once washed through the fog of time. The BS confederate cents are one example.
D Carr’s over stikes will be exploited at some point somehow as well I fear.
Like the engine noise they pumped into my buddies BMW i8 speakers to cover the real engine note, it sounds bad ass but it isn’t real.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
From the Heritage description...
"This gold coin was first publicized in 1855 and has never been challenged with respect to being 'one of a kind' or being the first gold pattern for a proposed U.S. coin ... To prove its ownership by George Washington requires a review of circumstantial evidence, and it is up to the reader to evaluate how convincing that proof may be." To comprehend why Washington would have received this gold piece, an understanding of contemporary coinage proposal presentation practices is necessary, and after his explanation of these customs, Eric writes:
"It would be logical to conclude that if Washington was to receive the customary specimen of a proposed coinage, he would have been given the gold one rather than one of a less important metal."
Other than it not being challenged as the first gold pattern for a proposed U.S coin of a review of circumstantial evidence to prove its ownership -- is there any other evidence of either?
I don't think anyone can be sure when, where or why this was made, except that it was prized by collectors in the USA by 1855. There was a great demand for souvenirs with Washington's likeness after he died. Lots of fancy Washington mementos were made in England the early to mid 1800s. In my opinion, you have to make several unlikely assumptions to reach the conclusions that this is a pattern coin, made in the 1700s, in the USA.
It was 1st "publicized" in 1855, but what's the earliest credible record or documentation of it, does the thick booklet say whether there are contemporaneous sources stating a single gold example was struck with the others? Do the dues match? I'm familiar with the copper ones, how many silver planchet examples wete made, and how many remain known? Thanks,
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
it will sell for 1.25 Mio USD.
Its not a real coin.
Thomas Jefferson wrote about GW's opposition to his image on coins - I'm traveling now and will need to spend some time looking for the letter, but it exists.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
Regulated is perhaps thinking of the letters exchanged between Mint Director
Samuel Moore and Thomas Jefferson in February/March 1825. At that time the
former president noted that he did not remember any details of the early coin
designs. Jefferson did mention the proposal about the president appearing on
the coinage but merely noted that it had been rejected.
So what was hammer price?
Does not sell until the ANA in August