HUGE die chip. 1987 D (ERROR)
CRH4LIFE
Posts: 849 ✭✭✭✭
Is there a exact sixe after a die chip could considerably be called a die break? Thank you for looking. Hispefully this is not a dumb question!
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CRH4LIFE
Posts: 849 ✭✭✭✭
CRH4LIFE
Posts: 849 ✭✭✭✭
Comments
Nice one and very dramatic, but always best to post both sides to be sure that nothing else caused it.
Thx. Nothing suspicious on the reverse that I can see.
Chips are just that a chip out of the die. Yours is just that.
A break is when a die fails or starts to fail and the die starts to break. Usually breaks involve the rim.
A cud is when the "chip" and "break" merge at the rim into a blob.
Nice find for sure.
bob
PS: I'm sure my simple explanation will become more complex and detailed as others chime in. Perhaps I'll be corrected multiple times as I do not have my "coin dictionary" in front of me!
Lincoln to Douglas, "I dare you to knock this chip off my shoulder."
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
You did make one big mistake - you should include "error" in the thread title and/or mention some of the experts so they will see it. Such as @FredWeinberg or @ErrorsOnCoins .
A die chip is not necessarily a big deal, but I am just amazed at how big and deep this one is.
Nice close ups - I've never seen that
particular 'chip' before, and although
I can't see anything that says damage,
it's peculiar, to say the least.
Looking at both sides of the coin, it's pretty
dinged up; I'm not certain it is what we think
it is. Because of the overall 'look' of the coin
itself, there is a chance it's not a die chip.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Agreed. The reverse does have a lot of Zinc rot Wich I beleive adds to the suspicious look. But over all agreed. There is not a match on cuds on coins and ken potter said it looked off as he has not seen this particular chip as well. I do not know who to tag. Should I fix the head line of the post and put error?
If you found this would you just throw it to the side? As a chip or if you like I could always send it in hand or to someone to further examine it?
If I found it I'd keep it for sure. I agree that it looks a bit out of the ordinary, but unless it is a gas bubble (and it does not appear to me to be one, but I am not an expert), I am not sure what else it could be if not a major chunk out of the die.
Worth keeping as a ??? to be figured out later,
Noted and agreed on the gas buble. It does not appear to be that. Thanks JBK!
It's not a Gas Bubble, I agree, but I'm
not certain at all that it's a large solid
raised die chip.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
It's certainly worth getting examined.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Something about it just doen't seem right to me. Certainly should be kept to have someone look more closely at it. Several things that stand out to me: Well defined 'sharp' interface between the blob and field as shown on bottom photo. Jagged edge on the right upper side of the blob ? Very pronounce perpendicular sides on the sides of the blob shown? No weakness anywhere else on the coin... including reverse? I'm thinking a good possibility that something was 'added' to the coin... as mentioned, needs a better look at it. If real... would be very nice find.
If real... that would be one deep hole in the die.
All (or most) good points.
Weakness on the reverse (or lack thereof) - maybe a concern, but if this defect is so limited in size maybe the reverse die was still supported enough by the planchet itself to strike up.
I am not bothered by the sharpness of the edges - if there were a hole/chip in the die then then I would expect the edge where the bulge starts to be sharp. BUT...as I think more about it, wouldn't all of that extra stretching on the sides of Mt Everest there cause the copper plating to break? I have seen lots of exposed zinc in cases where the surface was stretched to a degree not intended (various errors, elongated coins, etc.).
I'm going to be odd man out. I will not join the die chip crowd until the OP takes a plastic straight edge an pushes it hard into the lump. If it is a die chip, no harm done. If it is not, the lump will have a dent in it.
In my opinion it is a corrosion "growth" that has not broken the surface or gas. Please accept the challenge and prove I'm nuts.
Might be worth trying. Just use something that would not damage a die chip but will damage or dislodge an air or corrosion "growth" or foreign matter.
I like the look of it in general (except for the lack of exposed zinc on the sides) but it is such a weird spot to have a deep die break it makes it a real mystery.
As long as you consider the responses...there are no dumb questions in my humble opinion.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
The coin has so much circulation wear I would think it would've "popped" already, no?
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
All comments are appreciated and well noted! I went ahead and used a metal pin with a napkin underneath and gave it a few good shoves and the said break did not get affected. Also after reading the comments grabbed my card and repeated the ordeal. Same out come. So am going to send it off to ken potter for further examination/pictures. If proved to be what originally said he will have it featured in the 5'th edition of strike it rich with pocket change. This is a picture dead on straight above. After the test. The pictures before hand were shot at a bit of a angle to show the area described above. Either way a very Intersting and fun find
Here is the pic after the test.
From what I'm seeing.. it does not look like a gas bubble. Nice find!
nice find, did that dent to indicate a bubble or is it still hard.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
I know this is overly simplistic....but I wonder if it's just something stuck to the coin. Maybe copper, maybe just matching the coin surface. Maybe an enterprising metal shop craftsman dripping some melted copper wire onto the coin?
Guess I'm just not buying the shape, location, and depth being a die chip. (Then again, I don't qualify as an expert in most areas of study.
)
Pic finally loaded - so it dented on top? Assume it is not a die break then, unless you whacked it pretty hard.
@CRH4LIFE said: "All comments are appreciated and well noted! I went ahead and used a METAL PIN with a napkin underneath and gave it a few good shoves and the said break did not get affected. Also after reading the comments grabbed my card and repeated the ordeal. Same out come. So am going to send it off to ken potter for further examination/pictures."
AHHhhhhhh!
Guys,never, never poke around with a METAL anything. Now there is a hole in your coin that I'll easily see. Push down or push sideways with your fingernail.
Not a die break. Sorry, it was neat looking.
It might be simplistic but I happen to agree with you.
I think it is PMD of some kind.
I don't know, in tis image, the blob appears to be rounded going into the base of the coin...how is that possible?
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
A cud (at the edge), die break, huge die chip, etc. unless shallow, will result in a bulge of metal that expands upward during striking as there is nothing to contain it. Unless the damage to the die is shallow, the raised area on the coin never touches anything as it rises. Large cuds illustrate this best, but the metal that is raised up usually is rounded where it has been allowed to expand unconstrained.
Exceptions would include, among others, most all die chips (small, defined), retained cuds (where the die has broken but the broken piece has not yet fallen away), and shallow die cracks. In those cases, the raised area on the coin is contained to some degree (or entirely) in the void, meaning it pressed up against the inner broken areas of the die.
The dent that is there is the same dent from previous photos. It did not move the obstruction around. All of the previous pics were taken at a anglr as this one was not. Not saying I disagree with anyone. Just that the instruction still looks the same. Yes I shoukd not have used metal though. I will get another pic with the same angles as before once I get home for a better view. If it indeed is pmd worth the investigation!
That is certainly a strange anomaly.... such a large 'piece'....and to be circulating for over 30 years...Please be sure to come back and let us know what Ken Potter decides....Cheers, RickO
Of course! He will have it by Monday. Will let you all know the results! Agreed
its kinda scary
.
there is something at the base north/northwest.
well like they says why you have a chip on your shoulder
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
For whomever is interested in a update ken received the coin sometime ago. Recently grabbed some high res shots of the said die break and surrounding area. Waiting for the stacked images to come in to see what else there is to see. But I will post a link to the forum on fb Wich he posted the images and some other ideas that are being thrown in are. He did not give me permission to use his photos so this is why I. Dropping the link. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1404131066535437/permalink/2153223878292815/
Well he gave me permission so images are courtesy of Ken Potter
There must be more out there.
Collector, occasional seller
Pls keep us posted.
Great pictures, but still no conclusions.... Cheers, RickO
None still. I gave him permission to prod and poke it a bit and did nothing to the raised area. I took a screenshot of the updated conclusions. Also He said the stacked images did not provide any more of a answer then his pics showed either.