Home U.S. Coin Forum

Additional coin attribution hint = "naked eye" anomaly .

Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited June 1, 2018 1:22PM in U.S. Coin Forum

There was a recent discussion about attributing a large cent. I'm working on some now. Let me take any new collectors along while I do the next coin. Before I begin some suggestions:

  1. Generally, The higher the grade and the more original a coin is the easier the attribution.
  2. Attributions are easier and faster if you have the "right" book to use as a reference.
  3. The method I use is universal. Obviously, the specific details to use are different for each type of coin.
  4. You will need magnification. Unfortunately, the stereo microscope and florescent light I use to speed up the process may not be practical for most.
  5. A plus for all of us is to be able to pull up an image of the coin on the internet to double check our results.

I've got an 1831 Large cent in XF. The Large cent guys would probably "net" the grade down to VF for the shiny-brown, buffed surface from an old cleaning and a small gouge on the reverse into the ribbon tip. Let's start:

I'll open my favorite reference for these coins, United States Large Cents 1816-1839 by William Noyes. Starting with the first coin N-1 I look at the relationship between star #6 and the point of the coronet. No match.

N-2 Ditto, No match.

N-3 Ditto.

N-4 Ditto.

N-5 Ditto.

N-6 Close enough. Now I'll flip the coin over and look at the relationship of the last "S" in "States" and the leaf point. Close enough. Since I don't see any major differences, I'll note #6 as a possibility and move on.

N-7 Same result, close enough BUT this time the book notes that: "L below I; R tail above T" This matches my coin. Looking at the description in the book, Noyes indicates a defect on the base of the "T" in "Cent." That is present. As a private collector, I should be done but I'll check the rest of the options anyway as it puts information into my passive memory that I may just recall another time. Moving along, I see the same reverse on my coin (Reverse G) with the tiny defect on the "T" was used to strike N-10!
besides the Leaf and the "S" on the reverse, I can often eliminate options quickly by using the position of the berry under the "AM."

Comments

  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 you are a flash-speedy typist able to sum it up between coins :) Let me read it now....slowly

  • gtstanggtstang Posts: 1,692 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have had some tough decisions to attribute from pics on ebay because of "moved metal". Some coins are worth taking the chance on to verify in hand.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    LOL. I'm letting my lunch settle and going by notes I made at my desk in the grading room. It takes lots more time to do an attribution than to grade a coin. The thought came to me to write my process down so I can use it in a column later.

    IMO, most folks I've worked with take too much time doing an attribution because they use too high a power magnifier. On a high grade coin the first steps above can be done with your eyes alone.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, the pick-up-points are what I zero in as well, and I have "specialized" into a few type date denominations. Cherry-Picking has reaped some benefits for me and upgrading my existing Type Set collection. I use the Cherry Pickers Guides, PCGS CoinFacts, NGC Varieties, and a few others for reference points on varieties.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yup, buy the book is always great advice.

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The limits of my attribution "experience" is pretty much limited to Morgans and Bust Halves. But your step-by-step "check and eliminate" process sounds mighty familiar.

    But the one thing I like to do BEFORE I crack the book is scan the 2, or 3, or 4 areas that experience tells me are most useful for attribution, as well as the entire coin. If I can identify an attribute or anomaly BEFORE I start running down the list, I find I can much more quickly eliminate some, or an entire series, of possible attributions.

    Of course, I do it for FUN. With the right state-of-mind, you can convince yourself that YOU are the first one to notice that doubling, or broken letter, or date position. ;) So the extra time spent scanning the entire coin adds to the enjoyment, and I don't have to rush myself with a stack of them, (more WORK), waiting for me. ;)

    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TommyType said: "...BEFORE I crack the book is scan the...entire coin. If I can identify an attribute or anomaly BEFORE I start running down the list, I find I can much more quickly eliminate some..."

    AMEN! This is ALWAYS the first step, even more important than my post. Shame on me for not starting with this step. Sometimes a die break, RPD, etc. will eliminate most/all possibilities. Reference books with actual images are the best. I add notes or "draw in" anomalies or key identifiers found on one specific variety.

  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice thread. When I talk Capped Bust halves with my local club, I follow the same basic process as outlined in the OP (plus the 'look at the entire coin first' approach). Fortunately there are some really good online sites that provide additional images that supplement the Overton and Peterson books.

    Attribution is not that difficult once you have little experience and a lot of patience.

    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I started to check attributes on my Morgan dollars. I have many and you can find many resources online. What I do find is that in an never ending effort to discover a "new attribute", at times it, makes finding them more difficult. many times its a toss up between 2 or more. At that point, I guess using a scope will make the call. Some of the MSD have 8,9 or more VAM's.

    we appreciate your online teaching. Helpful to many

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 31, 2018 2:21PM

    **"...BEFORE I crack the book is scan the...entire coin. If I can identify an attribute or anomaly BEFORE I start running down the list, I find I can much more quickly eliminate some..."

    AMEN! This is ALWAYS the first step, even more important than my post. Shame on me for not starting with this step. Sometimes a die break, RPD, etc. will eliminate most/all possibilities. Reference books with actual images are the best.
    **
    This - after reading the first thorough post, that was what I was going to add - but you guys already did. Edited to add - you can usually use these in conjunction with 'quick finder' guides provided in most of the popular reference books.

    I will mention though that sometimes late die states can have attributes like this that are significantly different from early die states....and they don't always have photos of these, so check the footnotes, etc too.

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great information in this thread... a truly valuable feature of our forum... Thanks @Insider2 ... Cheers, RickO

  • EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,676 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When I get sent a possible new Indian cent variety, I find it helpful to use my electronic version (PDF) and blow up the images on my computer screen. I find date position to be a great tool in confirming a match.

    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One member (Walker Guy) reminded me that the first thing to do when attributing a coin is to look at the entire coin for something that looks unusual. That includes die breaks, repunched letters or numerals, etc. Usually that eliminates most choices.

    Here is a micrograph of a "naked eye" anomaly on a 1798 Large cent. There are almost four dozen varieties of this date. Once you see this "defect" (dash like raised mark from the "A" to the ribbon) the choice is narrowed down to only three possibilities! :)

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file