TrueView clarification for people that have their own site with MANY TrueViews

barrytrot · July 13, 2012 12:22AM

NOTE: I read every thread in the other 2 posts on this topic and this question wasn't answered.

I am creating a site for all my coins. This includes over 100 coins with a true view.

Question: Is this site legal?

All coins are owned by me.

NOTE: I also messaged Don Willis, but I don't know if he responds to PM's or not.

WingedLiberty1957 · July 13, 2012 12:49AM

Here were the questions that I posed yesterday to PCGS, I am still not 100% sure I know all the correct answers:

1. Are we as collectors allowed to post TrueView photos of coins we own on our personal websites? That is can we as collectors build a personal ("here is my collection" style) website around a myriad (hundreds) of TrueView photos that we had taken of our personal collection? Or is that an illegal use that violates PCGS's copyright of TrueView photos?

2. I know now that I cannot assemble TrueView photos of coins that I don't own on a website (even with the coin owners permission) -- but can I "assemble" (on a personal website) many hundreds of TrueViews of coins that I DO OWN?

3. If the answer to the above questions are yes, are there any restrictions with that? If there are restrictions, what are the specific restrictions? Or do we have unlimited and free use to show/display the images?

4. Some representatives of PCGS have posted that they don't mind customers of TrueView photos turning the backgrounds black, is that allowed?

Thank you PCGS for clarifying any of the points above.

DIMEMAN · July 13, 2012 12:54AM

As far as I'm concerned if you pay 20 bucks to have a pic taken of YOUR coin.......you should be able to do with it as you please..period!!!!!

keyman64 · July 13, 2012 12:58AM

I do not think a CRYSTAL CLEAR policy has been developed from what I can tell. There seem to be a few conflicting statements from PCGS which is unfortunate. I hope these threads will cause them to come up with a CRYSTAL CLEAR policy of things you CAN and CANNOT do.....I hope. Without this, I imagine it will be difficult for them to sell the service moving forward.

RYK · July 13, 2012 12:59AM

<< As far as I'm concerned if you pay 20 bucks to have a pic taken of YOUR coin.......you should be able to do with it as you please..period!!!!! >>

I agree, and I am pretty sure this is the case. If not, they should explicitly say so, not buried in fine print, before they take your money.

PennyCollector · July 13, 2012 1:04AM

Ron Guth, Don Willis and Phil Arnold all seem to have different opinions on the topic. Maybe Don could post one clear answer as all three have contradicted each other at certain points.

WingedLiberty1957 · July 13, 2012 1:10AM

I have to agree with that.

Certainly the restrictions are not advertised very well by PCGS, though there is lots of fine print and legal speak on the back of the Submission form. Then again reading tons of 4 point text in light gray on the back of a submission form is not something I relish. Not that I would necessarily be able to comprehend all the legal speak anyway.

The information posted clearly on the TrueView page seems to be somewhat in conflict with what I have heard directly from the PCGS brass.

In any case, the whole point for me of buying the TrueView photos was so I could show and display them. And in 2012, where everything is web-based, and the whole world is on the internet, it just seems like a no-brainer that customers of PCGS would WANT and EXPECT the right to display any and all TrueViews they buy for coins that they own on their own personal "here is my collection" style websites. The fact that -- that usage appears to be restricted by PCGS is actually somewhat shocking to me!

keyman64 · July 13, 2012 1:11AM

<< As far as I'm concerned if you pay 20 bucks to have a pic taken of YOUR coin.......you should be able to do with it as you please..period!!!!! >>

For the most part...I would think...except for MAKING MONEY off the images or claiming the work as your own since PCGS owns the copyright you can't do that. For instance, producing a book of the 100 most beautifully toned Lincolns....and selling the book for profit using PCGS photos...that would be a no no no no.

WingedLiberty1957 · July 13, 2012 1:13AM

Here is what PCGS posts on their own website about TrueView usage:

"The purpose of the PCGS TrueView photo service is to provide a quality image of a coin at the most opportune moment - before the coin is encapsulated in plastic. This will provide the customer with an unobstructed view of a coin in an image that can be utilized for a number of numismatic and commercial purposes. "

Zoins · July 13, 2012 1:18AM

WingedLiberty1957: In the other thread, you mentioned there seemed to be a desire to have PCGS CoinFacts and the PCGS Registry be the (primary or only?) repositories for TrueViews where more than 1 or 2 TrueViews assembled, regardless of coin ownership. That's also the general feel I've gotten from some of the recent posts though more clarification would help, as is the goal of this thread.

devious · July 13, 2012 1:20AM

HeeHee! And when I requested they take down all of my TrueViews from CoinFacts, they laughed in my face and said sorry sir, we're not willing to comply! I've been hesitant ever since to be a TrueView customer, but have contemplated the service recently again until these matters came to light.

Caleb · July 13, 2012 1:26AM

<< Here is what PCGS posts on their own website about TrueView usage:

"The purpose of the PCGS TrueView photo service is to provide a quality image of a coin at the most opportune moment - before the coin is encapsulated in plastic. This will provide the customer with an unobstructed view of a coin in an image that can be utilized for a number of numismatic and commercial purposes. " >>

I’m not a lawyer but why wouldn’t the above quote be equivalent to an “unconditional license” of the Copyrighted material to utilize a Trueview photo that you paid for anyway you want to?

telephoto1 · July 13, 2012 1:32AM

<< 

<< As far as I'm concerned if you pay 20 bucks to have a pic taken of YOUR coin.......you should be able to do with it as you please..period!!!!! >>

I agree, and I am pretty sure this is the case. If not, they should explicitly say so, not buried in fine print, before they take your money. >>

Virtually every professional photographer would disagree with this "do as you please" assessment...it's called WORK PRODUCT; unless you have a signed contract stating that the photographer relinquishes all rights to said work product (the images); they retain copyright. Period.

How many threads do we need about this?

DIMEMAN · July 13, 2012 1:40AM

WHY does a photographer have ANY rights to a pic that was taken of MY coin and paid for by ME.

He was paid for his service....and when this service is done and paid for.....he is done!!

PennyCollector · July 13, 2012 1:47AM

<< Virtually every professional photographer would disagree with this "do as you please" assessment...it's called WORK PRODUCT; unless you have a signed contract stating that the photographer relinquishes all rights to said work product (the images); they retain copyright. Period. >>

One could argue that Ron Guth gave everyone a free licence to use the photos when he said:

Trueviews: "...can be used by dealers and auctioneers any way they wish, for print or online advertising, marketing and promotion" - Ron Guth

If PCGS wanted us to know what uses are okay and aren't they would have let us know by now. I think Don Willis wants to keep it in the dark so he can change his mind later.

ctf_error_coins · July 13, 2012 1:47AM

<< As far as I'm concerned if you pay 20 bucks to have a pic taken of YOUR coin.......you should be able to do with it as you please..period!!!!! >>

The law is the photographer retains the RIGHT to his work.

Are your for Breaking US LAW ????????????????????????????????????????

Simple Question ........ Please answer it .......

WaterSport · July 13, 2012 1:50AM

And Now you know why I do not pay for the "service" to begin with. Oh, and good luck on getting any answer from them...........

WS

seanq · July 13, 2012 1:56AM

<< WHY does a photographer have ANY rights to a pic that was taken of MY coin and paid for by ME.

He was paid for his service....and when this service is done and paid for.....he is done!! >>

To put this in terms I can understand, are TruViews more like wedding photos (you pay for them to be taken and for a number of prints, but the photographer owns the copyright and you can't go make more copies without his permission), or are they like professional headshots (you pay for them to be taken and you can make as many prints as you want, distribute them as you wish, post them on your website / IMDb page / etc)? The description quoted above makes them sound like headshots, but PCGS is enforcing copyright like they were wedding photos.

Sean Reynolds

ctf_error_coins · July 13, 2012 1:58AM

<< WHY does a photographer have ANY rights to a pic that was taken of MY coin and paid for by ME.
! >>

Because that is the US copyright Law that protects artists ....

.... are you for Breaking U S Law?

telephoto1 · July 13, 2012 2:03AM

<< 

<< Virtually every professional photographer would disagree with this "do as you please" assessment...it's called WORK PRODUCT; unless you have a signed contract stating that the photographer relinquishes all rights to said work product (the images); they retain copyright. Period. >>

One could argue that Ron Guth gave everyone a free licence to use the photos when he said:

Trueviews: "...can be used by dealers and auctioneers any way they wish, for print or online advertising, marketing and promotion" - Ron Guth

If PCGS wanted us to know what uses are okay and aren't they would have let us know by now. I think Don Willis wants to keep it in the dark so he can change his mind later. >>

That quote you seem to like to copy and paste out of context so much is part of a larger statement, as I pointed out in the other thread... the reference to dealers and auctioneers using the images is when they are selling the items in question only. That doesn't infer granting carte' blanche to anyone who wants to use them for any purpose they choose.
PCGS is allowing the limited use of the images of the coins involved to transfer from owner to owner- this means a dealer who owns said coin can put it on his inventory page, or an auctioneer can put it in his catalog... that does NOT mean that any random individual creating a website can use them without permission, no matter how altruistic the purpose of the site.

WingedLiberty1957 · July 13, 2012 2:05AM

This is interesting. (This was PM'd to me by a very bright high school student). Certainly copyright law is a complex topic.

Copyright Fair Use and How it Works

LogPotato · July 13, 2012 2:08AM

<< This is interesting. Certainly copyright law is a complex topic.

Copyright Fair Use and How it Works >>

So is trying to find the Trueview check box on the submission form.

devious · July 13, 2012 2:08AM

The law regarding photographs is this: The photographer or company in which employs said photographer retains all rights to photo work of person, place or thing. If the coins were a people person, PCGS would require them to sign a model release before publishing the photos on CoinFacts. We already kind of do sign away our rights on the submission form. Fact is, they retain the rights to the original work despite whatever they want to say on their website. If you publish your coins on your website with the 100+ TrueViews you have paid for, they can selectively enforce whether or not they want you to have your collection on your website. Or you can ask them to sign over their rights to the TrueView or TrueViews in question and buy out the rights if they are willing to let them go.

PCGS can market and make as much money off of our photos as they wish. However, we as the clientele CANNOT market and profit or even print our coins in any kind of literature (without permission). We are paying PCGS for a COPY of the photo work they do. Maybe PCGS should offer a fee where we can as the client, buy out our images to do with as we wish. Maybe charge $40.00 per instead of $20.00, and this would also revoke PCGS any rights to using the photos for any marketing or profiting purposes once we buy out the rights (I didn't want my coins on Coinfacts, a win-win for both the company and the client). That is the only solution that would make sense to this sloppy mess.

And if you are going to request permission, being that PCGS is a commercial entity, it is best to obtain any sort of permission in writing, signed and dated by those in charge at PCGS. An e-mail seems great, but get an inked contract/permission slip. It'll make things happier!

Overall, I still think PCGS lacks in identifying what our fair use is. Above, someone mentions dealer/auctioneers. In the wording, I am neither a dealer or auctioneer. It excludes me and most other forumites from the wording Ron Guth (allegedly) provided. The PCGS website...obviously needs some work and revamping to clarify things. Things are pretty contradictory around here regarding the use of the TrueView services.

Maybe they should watermark the digital copies and send actual prints of the coins back in the submission form? That would provide for some good regulation.

RYK · July 13, 2012 2:10AM

I think Don Willis wants to keep it in the dark so he can change his mind later.

Well, that's an absurd conclusion! More likely, not all of the PCGS employees are clear on the policy and or the policy is not set in stone.

There's no question that this is a fuzzy area. I doubt that many people would pay to have photos taken if they could not display them anywhere.

JCMhouston · July 13, 2012 2:12AM

So it sounds as if the customer is paying PCGS to photograph their coins. Then PCGS can do whatever they want with those images to make more money, and the customer can gaze at the image longingly on their computer, as long as they don't post it on a web site?

csanotes · July 13, 2012 2:15AM

No matter what the law is in regards to copyright and reproducing of photographs, we all have the right to take our coin encapsulation and grading to another company. In addition, several of the prominent photographers on the forum I'm sure would be happy to have their work displayed on ones website as long as proper credit was cited.

ctf_error_coins · July 13, 2012 2:16AM

<< [
There's no question that this is a fuzzy area. >>

The way I understand PCGS's policy is the person who bought the TrueView can use the photo for personal use.

What happened is a website developer basically stole the copyrighted images from PCGS without paying for the use.

Bochiman · July 13, 2012 2:16AM

<< 

<< WHY does a photographer have ANY rights to a pic that was taken of MY coin and paid for by ME.
! >>

Because that is the US copyright Law that protects artists ....

.... are you for Breaking U S Law? >>

Really? Getting accusatory because you take offense to a question even though there are no direct connections to you? Maybe you could also ask if he, or anyone, has ever jaywalked? That's breaking US laws as well.

Just because something is a law doesn't mean it is the right thing? Sometimes it means that certain lobbyists got it pushed through with the law makers. Sometimes laws get outdated. Sometimes they are just plain bad laws, or laws that should be very specific but are consdered more broadly.

I do wonder if, and if so, how many, folks will be getting banned over these thread variants. It will be a shame too. This is obviously a hot area but some folks are being pretty blunt with their feelings and others are poking at them.

rawmorgan · July 13, 2012 2:16AM

<< WHY does a photographer have ANY rights to a pic that was taken of MY coin and paid for by ME.

He was paid for his service....and when this service is done and paid for.....he is done!! >>

This is a really good explanation of photographer's control over work, and I think will clear up a a lot of confusion.

From

Photo Industry Copyright Law Summary
by Philip M. Moilanen, PMA Legal Counsel

Photos made in 1978 and after. Since January 1, 1978 the photographer is the default owner for the photos he or she takes. If the photographer would be the owner, but he or she is working as an employee, such as being paid wages to take photographs for a studio, then his or her employer is considered the author/owner of the photo if the photo was made in the course of his or her employment.

You may read more from the fourth link on this page; and .pdf file.

PennyCollector · July 13, 2012 2:17AM

<< I think Don Willis wants to keep it in the dark so he can change his mind later.

Well, that's an absurd conclusion! More likely, not all of the PCGS employees are clear on the policy and or the policy is not set in stone.

There's no question that this is a fuzzy area. I doubt that many people would pay to have photos taken if they could not display them anywhere. >>

If Don/PCGS wanted us to not be in the dark, they would have told use what is an allowable use is by now. Not telling us lets them allows them allow certain permission as they please without having to specify what those allowed use are and to change them overtime without any repercussions. Cleaver.

19Lyds · July 13, 2012 2:18AM

<< 

<< 

<< As far as I'm concerned if you pay 20 bucks to have a pic taken of YOUR coin.......you should be able to do with it as you please..period!!!!! >>

I agree, and I am pretty sure this is the case. If not, they should explicitly say so, not buried in fine print, before they take your money. >>

Virtually every professional photographer would disagree with this "do as you please" assessment...it's called WORK PRODUCT; unless you have a signed contract stating that the photographer relinquishes all rights to said work product (the images); they retain copyright. Period.

How many threads do we need about this? >>

Relinquishing Rights is completely different than simply displaying a TrueView Photograph that has PCGS across the entire background along with a "Verify the Authenticity of this Image at PCGS.com" prompt below the certification number.

Certainly, a website devoted to displaying PCGS TrueView Photographs which gives credit for the photography to PCGS is not impinging on the rights of the Photographer whom we all know is Phil Arnold who happens to work for PCGS.

Now, if certain folks were to "black out" the background and then claim, for commercial purposes, that the photograph was their work, it would be a completely different story. For that matter, any TrueView Image that has been modified should probably be taken down since it clearly does not establish PCGS as the originator of the work. This would include images copied from www.PCGSCOINFACTS.com since those images have no clear reference back to PCGS unless stated so by the poster of the image.

Other than that, I really see no reason why TrueView coin images cannot be shared over the internet and find it rather unsettling that PCGS itself has conflicting views/opinions regarding who can show what.

ctf_error_coins · July 13, 2012 2:21AM

<< [Just because something is a law doesn't mean it is the right thing? Sometimes it means that certain lobbyists got it pushed through with the law makers. Sometimes laws get outdated. Sometimes they are just plain bad laws, or laws that should be very specific but are consdered more broadly.
. >>

Amazing, you think US Copyright is Bad Law that protects the rights of Artists, wow just amazing..........

Zoins · July 13, 2012 2:22AM

<< So it sounds as if the customer is paying PCGS to photograph their coins. Then PCGS can do whatever they want with those images to make more money, and the customer can gaze at the image longingly on their computer, as long as they don't post it on a web site? >>

As a paying TrueView customer, it sounds like PCGS is allowing you to post TrueViews to websites as long as you are only posting 1 or 2 at a time. For example, if you have 10 TrueViewed coins, it seems you cannot make a website displaying those TrueViews. If you want to do something like that, you should use the PCGS Registry.

PCGS, as the copyright owner, has unlimited rights to the photos and can do anything they want with them.

robec · July 13, 2012 2:26AM

<< 
What happened is a website developer basically stole the copyrighted images from PCGS without paying for the use. >>

Shame on you WL for stealing those images and promoting the PCGS brand.

mkman123 · July 13, 2012 2:27AM

Lets just get guys like Messydesk, Blue6vette, TomB, and others here do photos vs true viewed as they can do as good of a job or even better and they would allow us to post them.

Zoins · July 13, 2012 2:31AM

<< Lets just get guys like Messydesk, Blue6vette, TomB, and others here do photos vs true viewed as they can do as good of a job or even better and they would allow us to post them. >>

One major difference between TrueViews and other photos is that TrueViews are taken out of the slab. With more recent slabs, the prongs will always show with in-slab photos.

It would be good to know the copyright stance of any photographer you work with in any area, be it coins, cars, weddings, etc. For the most flexibiity for the coin owner, it would be good to see if the photographer is willing to assign / transfer copyright ownership to the client / coin owner. In this situation, if the photographer wishes to use the photos of your coins for other purposes, you can always grant a license to the photographer. You may not always be able to get that, but it's good to ask.

Unknown · July 13, 2012 2:33AM

This content has been removed.

TwoKopeiki · July 13, 2012 2:35AM

<< 

<< 

<< As far as I'm concerned if you pay 20 bucks to have a pic taken of YOUR coin.......you should be able to do with it as you please..period!!!!! >>

I agree, and I am pretty sure this is the case. If not, they should explicitly say so, not buried in fine print, before they take your money. >>

Virtually every professional photographer would disagree with this "do as you please" assessment...it's called WORK PRODUCT; unless you have a signed contract stating that the photographer relinquishes all rights to said work product (the images); they retain copyright. Period.

How many threads do we need about this? >>

There is a written contract that every customer signs when they submit coins. Read the submission form details - you are allowing for PCGS to take images and to own all rights to those images.

Zoins · July 13, 2012 2:38AM

<< There is a written contract that every customer signs when they submit coins. Read the submission form details - you are allowing for PCGS to take images and to own all rights to those images. >>

It seems like the general issue is not necessarily PCGS rights but that some people thought there were more PCGS customer rights than has recently come to light.

robec · July 13, 2012 2:38AM

So it's ok to store Trueviews on Photobucket, enabling you to post them to threads, but NOT be able to store them on your own hosted site.

LindeDad · July 13, 2012 2:40AM

Company policy is not normally made on message boards in response to posts by taunters.

Discussion on this subject should go private for some of the posters if they want to remain posters on this forum.

BTW I own no TV images and an not employed by anyone anymore.

telephoto1 · July 13, 2012 2:53AM

<< So it's ok to store Trueviews on Photobucket, enabling you to post them to threads, but NOT be able to store them on your own hosted site. >>

Posting one or two TrueViews of something you own on a random chat thread here or there is different than doing it en masse on a dedicated website.

So you're saying it's totally OK with you if, say, someone created their own "robec informational site" using all of your pics without asking?

(Side note- you have some very nice coins on your site. Congrats.)

Zoins · July 13, 2012 2:57AM

<< So it's ok to store Trueviews on Photobucket, enabling you to post them to threads, but NOT be able to store them on your own hosted site. >>

It seems like you can post them to threads or websites but not arrange them more than 1 or 2 at a time.

For example, it would be acceptable to post 1 or 2 TrueViews to a thread here but it appears sites like robecsimages.com would not be allowable under recently discussed PCGS policy.

Since websites like yours may be the goal of many TrueView purchases, this thread is important to clarify PCGS policy.

seanq · July 13, 2012 2:59AM

<< So it's ok to store Trueviews on Photobucket, enabling you to post them to threads, but NOT be able to store them on your own hosted site. >>

I think you can post or host them wherever you want if you were the one who submitted the coins and/or you are the one who currently owns the coins. What you cannot do is grant a third party permission to use the images on their site. Copyright for the images stays with PCGS, and they are the sole entity to grant right for use.

Think of it as if you took your kids to JC Penney and had portraits taken of them. You get the images and you can hang them wherever you want, but you can't take photos down to Kinkos and have additional prints made, nor can they be used by a third party for a commercial enterprise. If you want to give a copy to Grandma to hang on her "100 Favorite Grandkids" wall, you have to buy it from the photographer.

Sean Reynolds

robec · July 13, 2012 3:08AM

<< 

<< So it's ok to store Trueviews on Photobucket, enabling you to post them to threads, but NOT be able to store them on your own hosted site. >>

Posting one or two TrueViews of something you own on a random chat thread here or there is different than doing it en masse on a dedicated website.

So you're saying it's totally OK with you if, say, someone created their own "robec informational site" using all of your pics without asking?

(Side note- you have some very nice coins on your site. Congrats.) >>

Not at all. I'm trying to clarify if it is "legal" to store the TrueViews on a site like mine.

The main reason I went to hosting my site was so I could post photos (mine and my TrueViews) to message boards such as this without having the images watered down the way Photobucket does.

These have to be stored someplace right?

Thank you for your side note.

Bochiman · July 13, 2012 3:09AM

<< 

<< So it's ok to store Trueviews on Photobucket, enabling you to post them to threads, but NOT be able to store them on your own hosted site. >>

I think you can post or host them wherever you want if you were the one who submitted the coins and/or you are the one who currently owns the coins. What you cannot do is grant a third party permission to use the images on their site. Copyright for the images stays with PCGS, and they are the sole entity to grant right for use.

Think of it as if you took your kids to JC Penney and had portraits taken of them. You get the images and you can hang them wherever you want, but you can't take photos down to Kinkos and have additional prints made, nor can they be used by a third party for a commercial enterprise. If you want to give a copy to Grandma to hang on her "100 Favorite Grandkids" wall, you have to buy it from the photographer.

Sean Reynolds >>

Yeah.....better go buy some extras for the grandparents. Not like the prices aren't out of line, and not like folks don't have scanners and digitally share the pictures with those in their family circle that way.

Sean - not getting on you at all by quoting you.....I have no disagreement with what you said, just adding on that, given modern technology, prices, people's ways doing things, etc, that anyone going 100% "by the rules" is likely "lying, stupid, absurdly rich, naive, etc etc etc". Note, I said 100% of the time. That means, I do believe, that you can't get said picture from a professional, and then scan/digitize it to share, ask opinions, and go back and purchase to send to the person(s) you shared with....if going by the letter of the law....unless you have express permission to do so.

This whole thing has gotten, imho, out of hand, and too many people are being polarized by it by a few folks. To me, I could honestly not care less than I already do.
I have some trueviews, that I paid for, but I don't create websites....so it doesn't impact me. I do think the law around this, and I know it will upset a vocal few, is not a good law, however, in the way it is written and how some wish to enforce it.

Zoins · July 13, 2012 3:15AM

<< 

<< 

<< So it's ok to store Trueviews on Photobucket, enabling you to post them to threads, but NOT be able to store them on your own hosted site. >>

Posting one or two TrueViews of something you own on a random chat thread here or there is different than doing it en masse on a dedicated website.

So you're saying it's totally OK with you if, say, someone created their own "robec informational site" using all of your pics without asking?

(Side note- you have some very nice coins on your site. Congrats.) >>

Not at all. I'm trying to clarify if it is "legal" to store the TrueViews on a site like mine.

The main reason I went to hosting my site was so I could post photos (mine and my TrueViews) to message boards such as this without having the images watered down the way Photobucket does.

These have to be stored someplace right?

Thank you for your side note. >>

PCGS makes TrueViews available online via the http://images.pcgs.com server so, theoretically, you shouldn't need separate storage for TrueViews.

keyman64 · July 13, 2012 3:17AM

<< 

<< [
There's no question that this is a fuzzy area. >>

The way I understand PCGS's policy is the person who bought the TrueView can use the photo for personal use.

What happened is a website developer basically stole the copyrighted images from PCGS without paying for the use. >>

The website that was created was PERSONAL use. No commercial use was there! Actually, the creation of the site was at his expense(time hosting etc) and promoting PCGS. Commercial use comes into play when there has been some COMMERCE...some money. As I understand it, he was not making any money off of the photos...in fact because of the personal expenses coming out of his pocket and no money going back in...I think this is the epitome of personal use. There was no commercial use of the images from what I could tell.

telephoto1 · July 13, 2012 3:19AM

<< 

<< 

<< So it's ok to store Trueviews on Photobucket, enabling you to post them to threads, but NOT be able to store them on your own hosted site. >>

Posting one or two TrueViews of something you own on a random chat thread here or there is different than doing it en masse on a dedicated website.

So you're saying it's totally OK with you if, say, someone created their own "robec informational site" using all of your pics without asking?

(Side note- you have some very nice coins on your site. Congrats.) >>

Not at all. I'm trying to clarify if it is "legal" to store the TrueViews on a site like mine.

The main reason I went to hosting my site was so I could post photos (mine and my TrueViews) to message boards such as this without having the images watered down the way Photobucket does.

These have to be stored someplace right?

Thank you for your side note. >>

Based on my understanding of what PCGS has stated and my basic knowledge of copyright law as it pertains to photography (though I am certainly not a lawyer), since you own the items imaged via TrueView you are granted limited use of them, and that would include reasonable use on a thread or storage on your site-but since PCGS owns the copyrights and already stores them on their site, perhaps you should seek clarity as to whether it must be a link to their image rather than something copied and stored on your server. At least you own the coins involved... It's not like the "100 greatest" sites, where the site owner mass uploaded PCGS pics of coins he did not own and had not acquired permission from PCGS to use.

Edited for clarity.

robec · July 13, 2012 3:21AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< So it's ok to store Trueviews on Photobucket, enabling you to post them to threads, but NOT be able to store them on your own hosted site. >>

Posting one or two TrueViews of something you own on a random chat thread here or there is different than doing it en masse on a dedicated website.

So you're saying it's totally OK with you if, say, someone created their own "robec informational site" using all of your pics without asking?

(Side note- you have some very nice coins on your site. Congrats.) >>

Not at all. I'm trying to clarify if it is "legal" to store the TrueViews on a site like mine.

The main reason I went to hosting my site was so I could post photos (mine and my TrueViews) to message boards such as this without having the images watered down the way Photobucket does.

These have to be stored someplace right?

Thank you for your side note. >>

PCGS makes TrueViews available online via the http://images.pcgs.com server so, theoretically, you shouldn't need separate storage for TrueViews. >>

Do you honestly think everyone that posts a TrueView goes to the pcgs server rather than upload to an image hosting site? Maybe I am the only one that uploaded TV's to a site like Photobucket, I don't know.

Zoins · July 13, 2012 3:22AM

<< Based on my understanding of what PCGS has stated and my basic knowledge of copyright law as it pertains to photography (though I am certainly not a lawyer), since you own the items imaged via TrueView you are granted limited use of them, and that would include reasonable use on your site. It's not like the "100 greatest" sites, where the site owner mass uploaded PCGS pics of coins he did not own and had not acquired permission from PCGS to use. >>

Based on a post from Don, it appears you may not be able to arrange more than 1-2 TrueViews on your website, even if you own all the coins and paid for all the TrueViews. The PCGS Registry can be used for that purpose.

I believe this post may be the reason for this thread and the clarification the OP seeks.

TrueView clarification for people that have their own site with MANY TrueViews

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