What's coming from PCGS and why we charge for some of it
homerunhall
Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭
There are about to be a lot of new things coming out of PCGS...in my opinion, monumental things. Some of it we'll charge for, some of it will be free.
First, on the grading side...2010 will be a year we make some blow your doors off announcements and launch some grading related innovations that will be as important as anything we've done in the past 20 years. We'll be making some truly revolutionary announcements concerning grading in the next 30 to 60 days (and I'm not talking about the grading guarantee announcement we're making tomorrow). The things we'll be doing in 2010 have me as excited as I've been since we first launched PCGS in 1986. I can't say more at the moment...but we have been working on a few big things for the past two years and we'll be ready to share in the next few months.
I'd like to spend a little time talking about things we're doing at PCGS Coinfacts and with the PCGS Price Guide and why we charge for some of it. And the things coming from PCGS CoinFacts and the PCGS Price Guide are mind boggling. (Not to make light of the grading innovations I refered to above...which will be even more mind boggling...I just can't talk about them now...but I can talk about CoinFacts and the Price Guide.)
It is my personal goal to get all of the coin information in my brain onto PCGS CoinFacts before I die...I'm 62 years old and hope to be here another 20 years, but you never know. I've been there and done that. I was at the 1982 Eliasberg sale, I was one of the underbidders (at $7.5 million) on the LaVere Redfield silver dollar hoard in 1976. I've seen so many coins and so many transactions...and I want to share all of my information with you. Go to PCGS CoinFacts and check out my stories about the following coins...PCGS coin# 7157, 7244, 8401,9048, and 9156, and 9170. I have a 1000 stories and I want to share them with you. And experts David Akers, Doug Winter, Ron Guth, Gordon Wrubel, Denis Loring and many, many others also have thousands of stories they want to share with you. And we are doing it on PCGS CoinFacts, adding expert narratives every day.
Also on PCGS CoinFacts...some of it complete, some a work in progress...
Survival rates for every U.S. coin. Expert consensus opinions on how many coins survive total (ALL), in MS/PR60 or better (60OB), and MS/PR65 or better (65OB). How many coins exist? On every U.S. coin. Survival estimates also include sorts to compare coins within a series and/or type for relative rarity.
Images for every U.S. coin...including variety attribution guides. Not complete yet, but Ron Guth adds images and variety descriptions every day.
A condition Census for every U.S. coin. A list of the top ten known specimens (eventually along with photos) of every U.S. coin, along with pedigrees and auction info.
And the expanded price guide and PCGS Population Report are also on PCGS CoinFacts.
All of the above comprises a monumental task. How can we possibly do all of this??? Well, first of all, we have a lot of experts in our company and a lot of outside experts doing the work...but how we will do all of this is answered by what I say when our team meets and asks this same question. The answer: one coin at a time!
And as for the price guide. Here's what's coming.
1. We now have lists of gainers and losers for the day, week, last three months, last 12 months, and last 24 months. Starting this January, we'll also have gainers and losers lists for last 3 years and last 5 years as we've now completed an entire 5 year price history by the month for all the coins (virtually all) in the PCGS Price Guide.
2. The PCGS Time Machine....coming very soon. You have a coin...want to see the price history. Type in the PCGS coin number and grade and see the price from anytime in past five years...and for many coins, last ten years...and eventually all coins month to month since January, 1970. I'm actually personally working on the January, 1970 price guide (as a base) right now. And we'll have charts and graphing available, including comparison capabilities.
3. Price Guides for Colonials, BG gold, VAMs, and varieties. We just put up Territorial Gold...I think it's the only Territorial Gold Price guide on the web...and these others areas are coming soon.
I am totally addicted to working on PCGS CoinFacts and the PCGS Price Guide. I think it's that important...and it's also a lot of fun for me. Here's an example of my typical week and how I spend about 40% of my time on PCGS CoinFacts and the PCGS Price Guide.
Weekdays..up early in the morning...spend about one to two hours on historical price data base, check daily gainers and losers lists to make sure nothing is weird, etc.
Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays...go to PCGS and work on issues of running PCGS and Collecors Universe, spend a little time helping out in the grading room, etc.
Tuesdays and Thursdays...stay home and work on PCGS CoinFacts narratives, condition census, the Million Dollar Coin Club (Wait until you see how cool that info will be!), survival rates, etc.
Weeknights...spend an hour or two on PCGS Price Guide current prices. Though sometimes late at night I get the urge to pound out condition census work. Just log on to PCGS CoinFacts and look at "Recent Condition Census Changes" and if you see coins added every few minutes (I'm really quick, not a quick as Dave Bowers, but quick nonetheless...and our tech for CoinFacts admin is fantastic) you know I'm at my desk doing the work.
Weekends...spend 4 to 12 hours on PCGS CoinFacts and/or the Price Guide.
That's how much work I spend on the Price Guide and CoinFacts each week. And Ron Guth has an equally intense schedule except he spends almost all of his time on it.
Hope you find all of this interesting. Point is, we're pouring a lot of energy and time into providing you with some pretty important coin info.
OK, so some of you are pissed that we charge for PCGS CoinFacts and have moved the expanded part of the PCGS Price Guide behind the pay wall. Here's the deal...
Not counting my time and John Dannreuther's time, we have spent about $2 million developing PCGS Coinfacts. The annual maintenance cost is roughly $500,000 to $600,000, not including my time. Bottom line is we can subsidize some of this cost, but we can't bend over for the whole deal. So if we have a subscription fee, some banner ads, and some Google ads we can bring in $200,000 to $300,000 or so to help pay for all the PCGS CoinFacts and Price Guide maintenance. That's the deal...we need a little dough to keep it going. Seems to me like all the stuff we do should be worth ten bucks a month to anyone serious about coins.
Here's my offer to you. Subscribe to PCGS Coinfacts for a month. If you don't think it's fantastic, cancel your subscription and send me an email. I'll send you my personal check for $10 as a refund.
But even more important...we are really serious about that PCGS CoinFacts mission..."All the Information about Every Coin." And it's your CoinFacts as much as it is ours. This is a coin community thing. PCGS just happens to have the experts, access to information, tech talent, and and money to pull it off...so we're the ones doing it. But it belongs to all of us. So help us. If you see a mistake, email me or Ron Guth. If you have some info on a particular coin you want to share with the coin community, send us the info. If you have any suggestions...please send them along.
We love coins and we're on a mission. Help us if you can...and we hope you enjoy our work.
HRH
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Comments
Wondercoin
<< <i>100 point grading system??? >>
Oh please I hope not.
Otherwise great job PCGS!!
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Woo Hoo!
Some of us appreciate your time. Good luck with all the changes.
Thanks for the post DH and as a fellow coin guy...in a different league, but a REAL coin guy none the less...
I look forward to hearing about the next leg.
For waht it's worth, though, I appreciate your efforts, and as I move more seriously into this wonderful hobby, I'm sure I'll find useful most, if not all, of those features you now and will soon) offer.
Thanks for the effort!
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
In light of what I just read I will RE subscribe to pcgs coin facts. It appears as though you are truly putting alot of time and effort into it and its worth a shot.
What's going to be so good about it? Or, will it maybe be controversial so I would want my coins in now rather than later?
Will a new holder come with it?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
It sounds like the grading scale may be changing, and I truly hope it doesn't, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the BIG NEWS is that's coming soon.
The PCGS Coin Facts seems pretty interesting and quite informative. I may just take you up on that offer for joining for one month with the $10 refund. However, I have a feeling that you will likley be hanging on to your $10.
Thank you David and also to all your staff for all the apparent hard work and time invested in Coin Facts.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>100 point grading system??? >>
Shoot me first.
Free Trial
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>100 point grading system??? >>
Come on now, let's try to keep an open mind here, alright?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Weekdays..up early in the morning...spend about one to two hours on historical price data base, check daily gainers and losers lists to make sure nothing is weird, etc.
Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays...go to PCGS and work on issues of running PCGS and Collecors Universe, spend a little time helping out in the grading room, etc.
Tuesdays and Thursdays...stay home and work on PCGS CoinFacts narratives, condition census, the Million Dollar Coin Club (Wait until you see how cool that info will be!), survival rates, etc.
Weeknights...spend an hour or two on PCGS Price Guide current prices. Though sometimes late at night I get the urge to pound out condition census work. Just log on to PCGS CoinFacts and look at "Recent Condition Census Changes" and if you see coins added every few minutes (I'm really quick, not a quick as Dave Bowers, but quick nonetheless...and our tech for CoinFacts admin is fantastic) you know I'm at my desk doing the work.
Weekends...spend 4 to 12 hours on PCGS CoinFacts and/or the Price Guide.
That's how much work I spend on the Price Guide and CoinFacts each week. And Ron Guth has an equally intense schedule except he spends almost all of his time on it.***
That's amazing dedication and a true labor of love......You gentlemen are topnotch!!!!
Something tells me the numbers 71 to 89 are going to be put to some good use.
But when my curiosity gets up, I think it's worth $10!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Teaser
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
As far as I'm concerned there will not be a 100 point scale now or in the future
HRH
<< <i>As far as I'm concerned there will not be a 100 point scale now or in the future
HRH >>
Let me be the first to say.....
I have been platinum for a couple yrs running. But, two kids in college has put a major dent in my collecting ways. For that reason, I am still on the fence about paying for the coinfacts. I will probably give it a trial run if only to see what I will be missing....
<< <i>As far as I'm concerned there will not be a 100 point scale now or in the future
HRH >>
Ok,but, David, knowing what YOU know (and we don't), would YOU get your coins graded now or wait?
(Serious question actually......will newer ones be a different standard? Different titles? New holders? Some of us want accurately graded, and consistently graded, as well as having a collection that looks like a collection).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
but if it's really as good as you've made it sound, I guess I won't be able to complain
Hope to be able to try it out soon.
Thanks for taking the time to post the message on the forums as well.
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
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<< <i>
<< <i>As far as I'm concerned there will not be a 100 point scale now or in the future
HRH >>
Ok,but, David, knowing what YOU know (and we don't), would YOU get your coins graded now or wait?
(Serious question actually......will newer ones be a different standard? Different titles? New holders? Some of us want accurately graded, and consistently graded, as well as having a collection that looks like a collection). >>
Doubt he will answer, my guess would be some anti-counterfeiting protection. Like photo's and/or a new holder with something impossible or more difficult to duplicate
- Jim
Not counting my time and John Dannreuther's time, we have spent about $2 million developing PCGS Coinfacts. The annual maintenance cost is roughly $500,000 to $600,000, not including my time. Bottom line is we can subsidize some of this cost, but we can't bend over for the whole deal. So if we have a subscription fee, some banner ads, and some Google ads we can bring in $200,000 to $300,000 or so to help pay for all the PCGS CoinFacts and Price Guide maintenance. That's the deal...we need a little dough to keep it going. Seems to me like all the stuff we do should be worth ten bucks a month to anyone serious about coins.
I just thought that part bore repeating... I was trying to convey this in another thread.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Can I mail you my personal check for $10 to you in return for your $10 personal check that I will not cash?
That sounds like an interesting collectors item in itself?
his money on the line for what
he believes in.
Camelot
<< <i>I just thought that part bore repeating... I was trying to convey this in another thread. >>
If you sell on eBay, you know that lots of people don't care about your expenses- not their problem. Besides, it's a cost of doing business and you can just write it off on your taxes, don't you know?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>As far as I'm concerned there will not be a 100 point scale now or in the future
HRH >>
Ok,but, David, knowing what YOU know (and we don't), would YOU get your coins graded now or wait?
(Serious question actually......will newer ones be a different standard? Different titles? New holders? Some of us want accurately graded, and consistently graded, as well as having a collection that looks like a collection). >>
Doubt he will answer, my guess would be some anti-counterfeiting protection. Like photo's and/or a new holder with something impossible or more difficult to duplicate
That was my first thought.
Microchip?
TD
we can all complain about something, but all in all it's a fantastic organization i am proud to be part of.
I will be jumping into Coin Facts soon i hope... can;t wait to see what's in there for Colonials!
and can't wait to actually see a Colonial Price Guide on the site.
-sm
The Maddy Rae Collection
CURRENT BST OFFERINGS
A great summary of what you guys are all about--making history, and going first class.
I have been a Coin Facts member since the first date it was available. And it has already improved 10-fold in the short time it has been around.
There are hundreds, if not thousands of images on every series and date, the auction archives are amazing, going back 40 years for some dates, the prices guides are invaluable, Photograde will be available for all series eventually, and you haven't even broken the surface.
The announcements re grading and other improvements will be very exiciting. I think it will be well worthwhile to wait til we know what is going to be available, before we send in more submissions. But I will bet you guys won't have a spare minute once you tell us the news.
Thanks for all the time and effort.
The Price Time Machine feature might get me to try CoinFacts once it's up and running as that sounds really neat, even though $10/month (on top of the Collector's Club membership fee) is not insignificant, especially for those of us who are just collectors and not full time players in the coin business. Will try to keep an open mind though
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Thank you very much for the information. I also will be trying coinfacts in the near future.
I as others do wonder about sending in coins now versus later though. I'm sitting on 40-50 coins I was sending in this coming week. Now I'll have to reconsider. I would imagine it's a better anti-counterfeit slab, no doubt with a higher price tag.
<< <i>Now, you really have me wondering if I should put some of my coins in for grading now, or wait?????
What's going to be so good about it? Or, will it maybe be controversial so I would want my coins in now rather than later?
Will a new holder come with it? >>
I think I'll be holding my eight freebies until after the announcement.
<< <i>As far as I'm concerned there will not be a 100 point scale now or in the future
HRH >>
That is good news. However, I suspect the changes will likely encourage, or even necessitate re-submission of already graded coins.
<< <i>
<< <i>As far as I'm concerned there will not be a 100 point scale now or in the future
HRH >>
That is good news. However, I suspect the changes will likely encourage, or even necessitate re-submission of already graded coins. >>
Hmmmmmm...
Seriously, great job! I may just buy some CU stock today.
GrandAm