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1851 gold dollar... "C" mintmark, or "O"? (2010 update w/different pics)
lordmarcovan
Posts: 43,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
Geez, LordM, what an idiotic question.
Any dummy could tell the difference between a C and an O, right?
*ahem*
Ummm... think again?
I'm sure there's a way to tell from just the left half of the mintmark, but it's beyond my skill level.
Early gold peoples, care to lend a clue?
This "closeup" is really just an enlarged part of the picture above, but it'll have to do until I take some more pics. Thanks to the other Rob who took the pictures I have.
Any dummy could tell the difference between a C and an O, right?
*ahem*
Ummm... think again?
I'm sure there's a way to tell from just the left half of the mintmark, but it's beyond my skill level.
Early gold peoples, care to lend a clue?
This "closeup" is really just an enlarged part of the picture above, but it'll have to do until I take some more pics. Thanks to the other Rob who took the pictures I have.
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(And that's not meant to be sarcastic, he really seems to know his stuff in the short period he's worked on his set)
... or maybe it's a double struck MM, with the second strike going all the way through. Gold is soft.
www.brunkauctions.com
Sorry, I don't know enough about these to be of much help.
bob
1851 C Small c. 3 pairs of dies 1850 obverse may also have been used.
1851 O Large O. 4 pairs of dies shipped; heavy or light stars, positional vars.
I can't see how that helps but I wanted to post anyway.
It always seemed like the C's and D's that I've owned in the past were a little 'green'.
Not that I've had the dollars, I'm just speaking in general.
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Lord M, yours is a C. The top of the mintmark on yours is more flat like the "C" rather than the "O" which has curvature throughout the top and bottom of the mintmark. Also the sheer size of your mintmark is closer to the "C" since it is overall smaller.
Edit to add Lord M's coin right under to make comparison easier.
"Because I can"
myurl The Franklin All Old Green Holder Set
I agree, if you compare the height of the mm on your coin with the height of the mm's of the New Orleans it is slightly larger than the left bow below the date. The Charlotte mm is approx equal to the length of the left bow. Based on that it looks like a New Orleans piece.
John
Check out the Southern Gold Society
an O
bob
Randy
The ratio remains the same if you use the "O" mm to the "O" bow and the "C" mm to the "C" bow.
Too worn to see the die crack that most C coins have,
dont really know.
I hope you didn't pay C price for it (of course the seller would say it is a C)
The right bars of the C are clearly there. The O mint mark wouldnt produce that kind of metal flow from the hole.
Its a C mint mark.
the o looks much larger than the c and the coin you have seems to be c size
good luck
It's a "C".
Or an "O", depending on who you believe.
I think it's an "O", btw.
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Just my opinion.
C'dude
Lord M, when you really really look at this close see if you can see the trace of a die crack above OF AM(erica). That is a surefire diagnostic for a Charlotte mint 51. May be too worn to see that though.
Resized and rotated the images:
Cropped just the mint mark area and did an overlay. I colored the images to try to get them to contrast a little more in the overlay (but it didn't really work).
In my opinion, your coin seems to match the O mint mark better than the C. But with the wear and the metal that probably got moved around drilling the hole, it's still difficult to be sure.
Here's an overlay of the C and O mint coins for comparison.
Hope this helps.
bob
it's an 0 now
The OP coin looks like they are NOT that good. Tilts the scale to C
Its too small for an O mint mark.
Nice work there...
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
I'll take that bet Mr. Know it all.
bob
Thanks... I try to know everything about everything...
Im not a know it all, I know the mint mark. Its a C coin and if sent in for grading, it would come back in a gennie holder with a C on the label.
No need to be in a pissing contest though, it is what it is, a C minted gold holed dollar.
go back to Nicetonings set of three images on page 2 of this thread.
Look at the distance between the bottom star and the bottom of the portrait bust on the obverse. Based on the fact that Charlotte did not usually finish dies fully before use, and that New Orleans did. The Philadelphia mint struck the dies very fully, before shipment, and that controls how deep the hub had impressed the stars, letters and features into the die. These features were tapered larger, by Longacre, wider to the surface of the die, so they were closer together. The C mint had wider features than the New Orleans mint coin.
We note that the bottom star and the bottom of the portrait bust are much closer together on both the holed coin and the example 51C. See also how much distance there is from the star to the bottom of the bust on the New Orleans coin? It is greater because that die is finished down, ground down, prior to use.
To add, from Doug Winters "Gold Coins of the Charlotte Mint" page 51 "...weakness is seen on TES in STATES and the border on the right". This is seen on the OP's coin, obvious despite the wear. The denticles are nearly gone on the right border on the reverse.
so................Im calling the OP coin a Charlotte Mint.
Based on the relationship to the bust, to me it is an obvious 'C' coin.
To me it is an obvious 'C' coin. >>>
I noticed that too, but the size of the mm persuaded me that it is an "O" mm. But, all said and done, I hope it's a "C" for LordM's collection.