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Should you ask a dealer to get "unburied" in a coin, or does that just come out in a discu
Longacre
Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
Personally, I have never been buried in a coin, but I know those who have. One way to get unburied is to simply throw yourself upon the mercy of a coin dealer, and ask that he unbury you. I figure the dealers know the outlets for various coins, and would know how to blow it out to someone else.
For purposes of this hypothetical, let's say that you got buried by Dealer A, but you are seeking an unburial from Dealer B. Suppose further that you've done a lot of business with Dealer B, but you strayed from the reservation (just one time, and dealt with Dealer A, and, as a result, got buried).
When seeking to get unburied, in particular when speaking with a dealer who you have a relationship with, should you simply ask that he unbury you? Or does that fact sort of come out in the discussion once you are forced to admit that you have been seeing another dealer on the side (again, just once), and the unburial decision by the dealer just comes out of the discussion?
PS. I know this is written as if Dealer A was responsible for the burial, but I want to make it clear that a collector is ultimately the one who decides which coins to buy, not the dealer.
For purposes of this hypothetical, let's say that you got buried by Dealer A, but you are seeking an unburial from Dealer B. Suppose further that you've done a lot of business with Dealer B, but you strayed from the reservation (just one time, and dealt with Dealer A, and, as a result, got buried).
When seeking to get unburied, in particular when speaking with a dealer who you have a relationship with, should you simply ask that he unbury you? Or does that fact sort of come out in the discussion once you are forced to admit that you have been seeing another dealer on the side (again, just once), and the unburial decision by the dealer just comes out of the discussion?
PS. I know this is written as if Dealer A was responsible for the burial, but I want to make it clear that a collector is ultimately the one who decides which coins to buy, not the dealer.
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
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You either bite the bullet and sell at a loss, or hold it, possibly for several years to get your money back.
I don't see how a dealer can "unbury" you unless he pays you more than the coins worth. Then he's buried in it.
Ray
I don't know why they'd do that. Car dealers do that when they take SUVs as a trade-in, but they add the loss to the cost of your new car. That's the gist of those "we'll pay off your trade-in no matter what you owe!" Sure, you owe $20,000 on a car worth $15,000, so they'll just tack $5,000 or more on the price of the new one you buy. No free lunches...
<< <i>For purposes of this hypothetical, let's say that you got buried by Dealer A, but you are seeking an unburial from Dealer B. >>
You want Dealer B to bury someone else so you can get out without taking a loss? If he's willing to do that, do you think there's a possibility that maybe some of the coins he's sold you in the past came from other collectors he was helping unbury?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Now looking at it from being self employeed if you fired me or didn't hire me for a job or purchase the product from me, why should I be willing to take a potential loss at the expense of allowing a competitor to make an extreme profit? Good will would be the only reason, and its a matter of what return I feel that is probable in the case versus the dollar amount you are asking me put at risk or loss. The answer may vary depending on the situation.
<< <i>The best to get unburied in a coin is to stick in an auction. If you (or I) were stupid enough to overpay for it, there's a decent chance that someone out there is equally or more willing to pay for it. >>
<< <i>Sell it, and take the lesson to heart. Tuition paid. >>
<< <i>When you find yourself in a hole... STOP DIGGING!!! Cheers, RickO >>
Best advice yet!
Or perhaps, Dealer B might be willing to buy the coin on spec at the higher price and then be able to locate a buyer down the road.
QN
Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!
Many, many years ago when I was YN and buying coins from a department store coin counter, they would give me 100% credit on any item that I traded in to buy something else. I was paying full retail and then some so they did that for me. On the other hand they never stuck me with a counterfeit, which one of the reasons why I bought them in the first place.
As the others have said, you bite the bullet or hold the coin. Expecting some else to take a hit for you is beyond the call of duty.
When you're buried, you're buried, just don't keep repeating the same mistakes.
I suppose it depends on the dealer.
this is either a misunderstanding on your part or you have been getting some exceptional deals.
if a dealer sells you a coin(and i'll assume that it's Doug Winter for arguement sake) for ask at $5000 you are probably "buried" for at least a short period of time. that's just the way it works with the buy/sell spread, it takes a while for the "bid" to catch up to the "ask" as a general rule. some collectors find themselves underground more than others but it is pretty much unavoidable in the short term. my hunch is that in the scenario you outlined pretty much any dealer will buy a coin back at about 75-85% of what they sold it to you for. my math isn't what it used to be, but 85% of $5000 is $750 which is a loss i'd say constitutes having been buried.
my general use of the term equates to a coin which can't be sold by the owner without taking a loss.
<< <i>Personally, I have never been buried in a coin, but I know those who have.
this is either a misunderstanding on your part or you have been getting some exceptional deals.
if a dealer sells you a coin(and i'll assume that it's Doug Winter for arguement sake) for ask at $5000 you are probably "buried" for at least a short period of time. that's just the way it works with the buy/sell spread, it takes a while for the "bid" to catch up to the "ask" as a general rule. some collectors find themselves underground more than others but it is pretty much unavoidable in the short term. my hunch is that in the scenario you outlined pretty much any dealer will buy a coin back at about 75-85% of what they sold it to you for. my math isn't what it used to be, but 85% of $5000 is $750 which is a loss i'd say constitutes having been buried.
my general use of the term equates to a coin which can't be sold by the owner without taking a loss. >>
I consider that example to be the cost of collecting coins. It is not possible to purchase a coin at a dealer's cost, so being underwater by $750 from the get-go is nothing. By buried, I mean really, truly buried, such as being way overcharged when you purchase the coin, and not just paying a dealer's razor thin profit margin.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
I have been "buried" on two notable occasions. Both involved early copper coins that had been "conserved". One had a thin wax coating applied to it and the other had been lacquered or oiled. Both coins had been treated this way ostensibly in an effort to protect the surfaces. Some collectors of early copper feel this is acceptable and it is a relatively common practice.
I, however, quickly grew to hate both coins once I learned about them and was, therefore, buried in them. Some believe that truly original surfaces on early copper coins are as rare as hen's teeth and I accept that may be true. But I still much prefer coins with original surfaces or at lease surfaces that I cannot easily tell have been messed with.
Anyway, in both cases, a prominent dealer in early copper helped me out so that I practically broke even on one coin and actually made a little money on the other. He was able to do this because he understood the market for early copper much better than I did and he had a wide range of customers - many of whom did not care and may have even appreciated that the coins had been conserved.
In my discussions with this dealer, I was up front with him about my issues with both coins and what I wanted to do. I explicitly asked for his help and he came to the rescue.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>I can relate a different meaning for the term "buried in a coin" and my experience with it.
I have been "buried" on two notable occasions. Both involved early copper coins that had been "conserved". One had a thin wax coating applied to it and the other had been lacquered or oiled. Both coins had been treated this way ostensibly in an effort to protect the surfaces. Some collectors of early copper feel this is acceptable and it is a relatively common practice.
I, however, quickly grew to hate both coins once I learned about them and was, therefore, buried in them. Some believe that truly original surfaces on early copper coins are as rare as hen's teeth and I accept that may be true. But I still much prefer coins with original surfaces or at lease surfaces that I cannot easily tell have been messed with.
Anyway, in both cases, a prominent dealer in early copper helped me out so that I practically broke even on one coin and actually made a little money on the other. He was able to do this because he understood the market for early copper much better than I did and he had a wide range of customers - many of whom did not care and may have even appreciated that the coins had been conserved.
In my discussions with this dealer, I was up front with him about my issues with both coins and what I wanted to do. I explicitly asked for his help and he came to the rescue.
Great story. I am finding the copper world to be more genteel than other areas of numismatics.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>For purposes of this hypothetical, let's say that you got buried by Dealer A, but you are seeking an unburial from Dealer B. Suppose further that you've done a lot of business with Dealer B, but you strayed from the reservation (just one time, and dealt with Dealer A, and, as a result, got buried).
When seeking to get unburied, in particular when speaking with a dealer who you have a relationship with, should you simply ask that he unbury you? Or does that fact sort of come out in the discussion once you are forced to admit that you have been seeing another dealer on the side (again, just once), and the unburial decision by the dealer just comes out of the discussion?
>>
You make that conversation sound about as much fun as telling your wife the secretary gave you herpes.
I look at it as tuition money - I'm smarter today.
Department store coin counter?! Yes, you are dating yourself. The last one I saw was in a Bullocks store back in the '70s, and now both the coin counter and Bullocks are gone. On second thought, I did see a coin counter at the Sogo Department Store in Hiroshima back in the early '90s. I guess Japan is behind the times in some ways.
Obscurum per obscurius
I've only once ever taken him up on a buyback of a coin.
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U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>Getting buried usually means buying a coin that is not all there... >>
Happened to me, and I agree with Longacre
<< <i> I know this is written as if Dealer A was responsible for the burial, but I want to make it clear that a collector is ultimately the one who decides which coins to buy, not the dealer. >>
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Famous last words.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Famous last words.
"Genteel" means that anaesthesia precedes the shiv.
<< <i>The best to get unburied in a coin is to stick in an auction. If you (or I) were stupid enough to overpay for it, there's a decent chance that someone out there is equally or more willing to pay for it. >>
Operating on the bigger fool theory is traveling a rocky road.
We often will take items on the arm and shop them around for clients that got themselves buried. Sometimes it takes awhile but we usually can get the client out of it while they still can smile about it. Knowing where to go with 'stuff' is key in the collectibles business.
<< <i>Operating on the bigger fool theory is traveling a rocky road.
We often will take items on the arm and shop them around for clients that got themselves buried. Sometimes it takes awhile but we usually can get the client out of it while they still can smile about it. Knowing where to go with 'stuff' is key in the collectibles business. >>
Frown to Smile to Frown to Smile to Frown to Smile. This hobby is Fun for Some.....
Ken
<< <i>Isn't this a wonderful hobby? >>
Are there any other hobbies out there that has more unethical participants than coin collecting?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire