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Revised Guidance For First Day of Issue Presidential Dollars
CoinKing
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PCGS Revises Guidance For First Day of Issue Presidential Dollars
Revised April 19, 2007
The first coin of the new Presidential Dollar series (the Washington $1) was released on February 15, 2007. Special First Day of Issue inserts are available for Presidential Dollar coins through the PCGS Bulk Submissions program, under the following options.
1. Official Release Date. Coins delivered to PCGS on the first official day of their release or sent in sealed packages postmarked on that date.
2. Mint-sealed Boxes. Coins housed in original, mint-sealed boxes with a white seal bearing the name of the President (i.e. "PRESIDENT GEORGE WASHINGTON") and the official release date (i.e. "DO NOT BREAK SEAL UNTIL FEB. 15"). Such boxes must also contain the date stamp of the Mint inspector. The same rules will apply to future Presidential Dollars unless the Mint makes changes in their packaging and sealing.
3. U.S. Mint Official American Presidency $1 Coin Cover Series. These are First Day of Issue Covers sold by the U.S. Mint, each containing two coins (one from Philadelphia, one from Denver), both from the first day of production. The holder is stamped and postmarked on the official first day of issue. Coins will be removed from the holder and graded separately. The original shipping boxes need not be sealed, but the covers must be submitted intact and unopened. A minimum of 50 covers may be submitted through the Bulk Submissions program. PCGS is currently developing an option for encapsulating the entire cover. PCGS does not offer a First Day of Mintage (or Production) option.
First Day of Issue inserts are only available through the PCGS Bulk Submissions program. Each order must contain a minimum of 100 coins (or 50 First Day of Issue Covers). All bulk orders should be submitted directly to the PCGS offices and will not be accepted at shows. If you have any questions about submitting bulk coins, please contact the Bulk Department at (949) 567-1216.
PCGS Guidance is based on the best information available at the time the guidance is developed. PCGS, at their discretion, may adjust guidance as new information becomes available.
Revised April 19, 2007
The first coin of the new Presidential Dollar series (the Washington $1) was released on February 15, 2007. Special First Day of Issue inserts are available for Presidential Dollar coins through the PCGS Bulk Submissions program, under the following options.
1. Official Release Date. Coins delivered to PCGS on the first official day of their release or sent in sealed packages postmarked on that date.
2. Mint-sealed Boxes. Coins housed in original, mint-sealed boxes with a white seal bearing the name of the President (i.e. "PRESIDENT GEORGE WASHINGTON") and the official release date (i.e. "DO NOT BREAK SEAL UNTIL FEB. 15"). Such boxes must also contain the date stamp of the Mint inspector. The same rules will apply to future Presidential Dollars unless the Mint makes changes in their packaging and sealing.
3. U.S. Mint Official American Presidency $1 Coin Cover Series. These are First Day of Issue Covers sold by the U.S. Mint, each containing two coins (one from Philadelphia, one from Denver), both from the first day of production. The holder is stamped and postmarked on the official first day of issue. Coins will be removed from the holder and graded separately. The original shipping boxes need not be sealed, but the covers must be submitted intact and unopened. A minimum of 50 covers may be submitted through the Bulk Submissions program. PCGS is currently developing an option for encapsulating the entire cover. PCGS does not offer a First Day of Mintage (or Production) option.
First Day of Issue inserts are only available through the PCGS Bulk Submissions program. Each order must contain a minimum of 100 coins (or 50 First Day of Issue Covers). All bulk orders should be submitted directly to the PCGS offices and will not be accepted at shows. If you have any questions about submitting bulk coins, please contact the Bulk Department at (949) 567-1216.
PCGS Guidance is based on the best information available at the time the guidance is developed. PCGS, at their discretion, may adjust guidance as new information becomes available.
Ron Guth
President
PCGS CoinFacts - the Internet Encyclopedia of U.S. Coins
www.CoinFacts.com
President
PCGS CoinFacts - the Internet Encyclopedia of U.S. Coins
www.CoinFacts.com
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Comments
<< <i>3. U.S. Mint Official American Presidency $1 Coin Cover Series. These are First Day of Issue Covers sold by the U.S. Mint, each containing two coins (one from Philadelphia, one from Denver), >>
This should spur another excited six hundred replies in that GW thread.
<< <i>
<< <i>3. U.S. Mint Official American Presidency $1 Coin Cover Series. These are First Day of Issue Covers sold by the U.S. Mint, each containing two coins (one from Philadelphia, one from Denver), >>
This should spur another excited six hundred replies in that GW thread. >>
He still doesn't get it....they are not the First Day of Issue, but the First Day of Production....
Box of 20
<< <i>Those mint sealed boxes of a $1000. Can't the side panels be removed easily with the seal still intact. I don't know about the integrity of these $1000 mint boxes. I received one and could easily remove the side cardboard inserts. Can anybody else comment on this. >>
I don't know but if the only thing sealing the box is a white sticker, that can easily be lifted using a blow dryer and sealed back up. Someone could then carefully open one of the bank rolls from then end tamper with the contents and crimp it back together.
Not sure I understand this. You mean If I have a sealed box I can send it in at any time? What was the point of rushing to the PO on the 15 then? Under this scenario I can send in a box of 1000 tomorrow and still get 1st day of issue?
Sorry in advance if I misunderstood the post.
Also. and this is just my opinion I doubt very much that these covers have 1st day of production coins in them. They could very well have coins minted 3 weeks ago in them. All they have basically is a Postmark that could have been applied at anytime.
Steve
<< <i>Also. and this is just my opinion I doubt very much that these covers have 1st day of production coins in them. They could very well have coins minted 3 weeks ago in them. All they have basically is a Postmark that could have been applied at anytime.
Steve >>
wouldn't be deception and fraud then against the mint? seems a bit of a stretch... i mean... possible... sure i guess... but that's pretty bad if they actually did this... would ruin it for me that's for sure!
/ed
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<< <i>Also. and this is just my opinion I doubt very much that these covers have 1st day of production coins in them. They could very well have coins minted 3 weeks ago in them. All they have basically is a Postmark that could have been applied at anytime. >>
You think the US Mint is lying? They've been doing these for SHQ FDCCs since 1999 with first day of mintage coins. You think they've been lying to the public for 9 years?
Do you also think the moon landings were staged?
Steve, you can't be serious!
"This limited-edition cover—only 50,000 will be produced—features two George Washington $1 Coins from the first day of production, November 9, 2006 (Philadelphia), and November 28, 2006 (Denver). "
That statement is from the US Mint/ GW First Cover Page!
It is very clear to me that these are indeed struck on ths First Day of Mintage.
<< <i>Those mint sealed boxes of a $1000. Can't the side panels be removed easily with the seal still intact. I don't know about the integrity of these $1000 mint boxes. I received one and could easily remove the side cardboard inserts. Can anybody else comment on this. >>
I bought 4 boxes but didn't open them. I do however remember reading a note on the outside requesting bank personnel to verify all 40 rolls are there thru 40 inspection holes prior to opening. If the box can be opened and resealed easily then this warning would be useless. --Jerry
however I was hoping my other question would be answered too.
The reason i thought that was why did they wait almost 2 months to issue the first day covers?
Also, they may have took coins from the first day but not the first 100,000?
In any event no i do not think they lied to us. I just do not think we are getting the first 100k coins?
Steve
<< <i>I stand corrected.
however I was hoping my other question would be answered too.
The reason i thought that was why did they wait almost 2 months to issue the first day covers?
Also, they may have took coins from the first day but not the first 100,000?
In any event no i do not think they lied to us. I just do not think we are getting the first 100k coins?
Steve >>
The mint indicates the coins in the coin cover were from the first day of production not the first 50,000 P & D coins minted.
<< <i>In any event no i do not think they lied to us. I just do not think we are getting the first 100k coins?
Steve >>
i agree with this statement... but they are only saying they are from the first day... which is not too shabby either... a cool product to go along with the covers maybe COULD have been a limited edition, say 5,000, actual FIRST STRIKES... can you say 5min sell out!!
/ed
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I too opened a box and mine was glued like the above mentioned poster.
Steve
I initially submitted a brick, rushing like a madman on the 15th.
This was a new area for me, I had never even seen a brick.
As the first of a series, I can understand completely that initially a postmark seems flawless, but now, we also know that all the presidential bricks will be glued tight, stickered across the flap, and then stamped by a federal agency, heck, even inspected!. Makes perfect sense that a sealed brick was also eligible for FDI, it just wasnt obvious when the initial guidance was given.
The whole idea is to insure that the coins in the special holders are qualified for the special holders. And no one, especially after trying to get into one of these cases, can say that these bricks arent exactly as said, issued and sealed before the official first day. So, they should qualify as FDI. And now they do. Thanks PCGS.
Box of 20
What are you thanking them for?
Steve
Is there really an established RETAIL market for these first day of issue labels? It is hard for me to conceive that enough collectors would be willing to shell out a significant premium for these labeled coins. The collectors would have to perceive that the value of these first day of issue coins would go up in value over time. It doesn't make sense to me, but then again, I'm just a collector. If you dealers enjoy trading these labels among yourselves for increasing amounts, then great. But if I start to see these coins being peddled on the Coin Vault, I think I will have figured what is up. Lord help us if this label thing really continues with John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, etc. JMHO. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
edit, Oh I see, ' PCGS Revises Guidance For First Day of Issue Presidential Dollars' . Still had the same effect
just speaking for myself I have sold 70 first day dollars in ms 65 and not one to a dealer.
I have also sold 2 ms 66's....again none to dealers.
To say that dealers are trading them amongst themselves is not correct IMO.
Steve
edite to add: Rich get richer? thus far I have gotten my dough back and am up 50.00 many others are still in the red.
No one is getting rich with ms 65 and 66 of these coins. unless you were lucky and got smoothies.
You are making too much common sense with that post and there is no rant quality about the request.
I tried to do the rant method over the last 3 days and it obviously didn't work.
<< <i>3) I'm afraid the FDI designation has been compromised by your latest rules. Apparently I can order a box of GW dollars from my bank today, they come in next week, and I can still get them into FDI holders. FDIs aren't getting much respect in the marketplace as it is. I think it's only going to get worse now that just about any coin will qualify. >>
Not necessarily. The box must be sealed with a DO NOT Open until 2/15 sticker. There were plenty of boxes shipped AFTER that date.
<< <i>Under this scenario I can send in a box of 1000 tomorrow and still get 1st day of issue? >>
This same scenario holds true for the First Strike Silver Eagles and is the only logical direction that PCGS can take. The First Strike SAE program came into existance in 2005 yet there are many, many First Strike slabs before that year. And no, just because its possible to do it does not mean that the pops will increase that dramatically as the boxes must be sealed.
I acually think this scenario makes it easier for folks to get that FDOI label since now we don't have to rush to the bank and hope they have what we're looking for and then pick the best 100 and then rush to the PO to get that first day postmark! If anything, it will make this label more available to those that want to collect them and will possibly push the Washington FDOI label into a higher price range since the restriction were so tight in the first place.
I again state that I do not think there will be that many more that qualify under these new guidelines for the Washington. 16,824 have been graded with only 16 hitting the MS67 mark. Only time will tell in the long run where these end up.
The name is LEE!
My 2 cents - First, the prior rule of having to get a postmark on a certain day on a sealed box was over-reaching and cumbersome. I even had a customer who had thought about placing all his sealed bricks in the mail to me- for me to NOT OPEN for years just so they would qualify for First Day in the future (with a postmark on the packages) if he ever needed them! Silly!
Second, the fact that no one is "getting rich" on First Day product is par for the course. Very few modern products each and every year result in fabulous returns through slabbing - these First Day products are simply yet another example of that. Those who bought "w" Plat coins in large quantity "did very well". Those who bought 3-pc Gold and Silver sets in large quantity last year "did very well". Those who bought the vast majority of the other 98% of the US Mint Products for 2006 and submitted them to PCGS did OK to poorly, depending upon the product. First Day product is simply not "w" Plats - PCGS should not be fashioning its guidance around the notion that dealers or collectors playing in this arena will strike it rich or not. Bottom line - the prior guidance was cumbersome (and a bit over-reaching IMHO). It has now been adjusted to reflect the realities of the marketplace and I for one am pleased that I no longer need to worry about getting mountains of coins IN THE MAIL to PCGS on a given day.
Wondercoin
Box of 20
<< <i>"3) I'm afraid the FDI designation has been compromised by your latest rules. Apparently I can order a box of GW dollars from my bank today, they come in next week, and I can still get them into FDI holders. FDIs aren't getting much respect in the marketplace as it is. I think it's only going to get worse now that just about any coin will qualify."
My 2 cents - First, the prior rule of having to get a postmark on a certain day on a sealed box was over-reaching and cumbersome. I even had a customer who had thought about placing all his sealed bricks in the mail to me- for me to NOT OPEN for years just so they would qualify for First Day in the future (with a postmark on the packages) if he ever needed them! Silly!
Second, the fact that no one is "getting rich" on First Day product is par for the course. Very few modern products each and every year result in fabulous returns through slabbing - these First Day products are simply yet another example of that. Those who bought "w" Plat coins in large quantity "did very well". Those who bought 3-pc Gold and Silver sets in large quantity last year "did very well". Those who bought the vast majority of the other 98% of the US Mint Products for 2006 and submitted them to PCGS did OK to poorly, depending upon the product. First Day product is simply not "w" Plats - PCGS should not be fashioning its guidance around the notion that dealers or collectors playing in this arena will strike it rich or not. Bottom line - the prior guidance was cumbersome (and a bit over-reaching IMHO). It has now been adjusted to reflect the realities of the marketplace and I for one am pleased that I no longer need to worry about getting mountains of coins IN THE MAIL to PCGS on a given day.
Wondercoin >>
Well said Mitch. I might add that these boards may seem to some to have been turned into a pump and dump forum in the last 6-9 months. New "members" spewing dozens of "statements" on a daily basis about the "prospects" of new mint products. It's no wonder some hold such disdain for moderns. I love moderns as much as anyone but the whining and complaining to get one's view across is getting old. If you don't like PCGS's stance then don't do business with them. As experienced Modern dealers know the modern market is often limited and or very thin on new issues. The continued dumping of "new" TPG's products on the market is not good imho. So you made money on some Mint products in 2006.....good for you. As Mitch states above "getting rich" is not par for the course......a fact that some new to the business don't seem to understand.
<< <i>Those mint sealed boxes of a $1000. Can't the side panels be removed easily with the seal still intact. I don't know about the integrity of these $1000 mint boxes. I received one and could easily remove the side cardboard inserts. Can anybody else comment on this. >>
i have a box and it has obviously NOT been tampered with. i tried tugging at the end flaps and nothing's gonna give w/o, tearing and/or creasing the cardboard flap
<< <i>
<< <i>Also. and this is just my opinion I doubt very much that these covers have 1st day of production coins in them. They could very well have coins minted 3 weeks ago in them. All they have basically is a Postmark that could have been applied at anytime.
Steve >>
wouldn't be deception and fraud then against the mint? seems a bit of a stretch... i mean... possible... sure i guess... but that's pretty bad if they actually did this... would ruin it for me that's for sure!
/ed >>
and you have THE discovery cheerios sac and asking this question?
<< <i>...I might add that these boards may seem to some to have been turned into a pump and dump forum in the last 6-9 months. New "members" spewing dozens of "statements" on a daily basis about the "prospects" of new mint products. >>
We were all new at one time, me being relatively new myself, but this is a good point and one I've been noticing for a while now but haven't brought myself to talk about it because I didn't want to come across as just bashing the nubs or sour grapes. Until now, anyway, I guess.
There seems to have been a flood recently of members with 1 - 400 posts or so, replying over and over and over again about the same topic, repeating the same statements over and over, and all speculating like a modern gold rush era. There's nothing wrong with low posts and new members, I'm only saying there is a correlation.
Edited to add: Just look at all the discussions in another thread generated over the tape that is sealing the boxes of the GW FDCs.
TAPE! Ridiculous!
State a policy and stick to it, label a product a certain way and stick to it.
That is simple.
the new pops should definetly go up.
<< <i>
<< <i>...I might add that these boards may seem to some to have been turned into a pump and dump forum in the last 6-9 months. New "members" spewing dozens of "statements" on a daily basis about the "prospects" of new mint products. >>
We were all new at one time, me being relatively new myself, but this is a good point and one I've been noticing for a while now but haven't brought myself to talk about it because I didn't want to come across as just bashing the nubs or sour grapes. Until now, anyway, I guess.
There seems to have been a flood recently of members with 1 - 400 posts or so, replying over and over and over again about the same topic, repeating the same statements over and over, and all speculating like a modern gold rush era. There's nothing wrong with low posts and new members, I'm only saying there is a correlation.
Edited to add: Just look at all the discussions in another thread generated over the tape that is sealing the boxes of the GW FDCs.
TAPE! Ridiculous! >>
I do believe we americans call it "Free speech"
<< <i>I just went to the bank and was able to find a sealed brick of GW dollars with a Feb 8th inspection date. The box is sealed very well and would be hard to tamper with without it being obvious. I think with the new guidlines for FDI they will diminish the appeal of the insert now since these boxes are so easy to obtain
the new pops should definetly go up.
>>
I agree that if folks send in 1000 coin boxes, the pops will definitely spike. But on the other hand, how many folks will really fork over the $10k ($10 per coin minimum for bulk) grading fee to get all of those guys graded? Hmm.
Not sure if that was directed at me or ED.
I do not have that coin and I stood corrected 2 pages ago.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Also. and this is just my opinion I doubt very much that these covers have 1st day of production coins in them. They could very well have coins minted 3 weeks ago in them. All they have basically is a Postmark that could have been applied at anytime.
Steve >>
wouldn't be deception and fraud then against the mint? seems a bit of a stretch... i mean... possible... sure i guess... but that's pretty bad if they actually did this... would ruin it for me that's for sure!
/ed >>
and you have THE discovery cheerios sac and asking this question? >>
57loaded:
not sure i see where you are going with this?
/ed
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Steve
PCGS has made a terrible call here for ANY sealed box dated 2/15 or before to be designated First Day of Issue. Additionally, I originally had a problem with the covers being labeled First Day of Issue as well, but feel those should be more appropriately called First Day of Mintage or First Day of Production.
The rules were quite simple originally, and no matter how tough it might have been to acquire and send coins to PCGS postmarked on the mailing box 2/15; many did it. Many waited on lines at the bank, some may have taken time to travel to Grand Central Station in New York to acquire fresh rolls, others may have bought them for some premium just to submit on DAY 1.
Whether we agree or not, the point was to get them to PCGS in a mailing box dated 2/15. They should have stuck with the game plan they developed. Give anyone a two week timespan to have thier package make it to PCGS, but it must be dated 2/15. Exceptions to postmarked MINT items - like covers. Sealed bank boxes ARE NOT MINT WRAPPED OR BOXED. No reliability can be placed on those cartons, dates or stickers.
With changes like the one made to guidance recently, I would expect those fees on subsequent Pres Dollars to drop through the floor.......
PCGS is INCORRECT in thier guidance that these are MINT packaged - they are NOT.
The boxes with those labels are THIRD PARTY wrapped rolls and packaged in boxes.