The seven levels of cameo contrast within the PCGS grading set.

Russ · April 17, 2004 10:20AM

As we all know, we see three levels on graded coins; none, Cameo and Deep Cameo. What many don't know, is that PCGS actually has seven levels within their grading set. They are:

1 - Proof Plus
Some contrast, but not enough for the designation.

2 - Cameo Minus
A barely make it cameo.

3 - Cameo
Solid cameo contrast.

4 - Cameo Plus
Upper end for contrast, but not quite enough for DCAM.

5 - DCAM Minus
A barely make it DCAM.

6 - DCAM
Solid DCAM contrast.

7 - DCAM Plus
The very top of the contrast scale.

I'll try to illustrate these levels with images:

Level 1

Level 2

Level 3

Level 4

Level 5

Level 6

Level 7

The fact is that not all cameos are created equal and not all deep cameos are created equal. There can be a very wide variation in contrast - and thus in value - within each of the designations. It also explains why a coin may be designated differently on different submissions. Sometimes the line is very thin and becomes a judgement call.

Russ, NCNE

Stuart · April 17, 2004 10:23AM

Russ: Which coin type(s) does PCGS use for this grading set ??

FC57Coins · April 17, 2004 10:23AM

So the mirrors count as much as the frost - correct?

kieferscoins · April 17, 2004 10:24AM

Rick Tomaska tried to get PCGS to have more designations than the three but they wouldn't go for it.

Cameron Kiefer

Russ · April 17, 2004 10:25AM

<< Russ: Which coin type(s) does PCGS use for this grading set ?? >>

An ugly one. Frankies.

<< So the mirrors count as much as the frost - correct? >>

PCGS actually gives slightly more weight to the mirror depth.

Russ, NCNE

mgoodm3 · April 17, 2004 10:28AM

Thankyou. Interesting comparison. Now it's even harder to deal with. I'll stick to really old proofs where you're happy to even get cameo.

CarlWohlforth · April 17, 2004 10:29AM

To paraphrase Lucy: "More DCAM Plus for me."

Stuart · April 17, 2004 10:32AM

<< Thankyou. Interesting comparison. Now it's even harder to deal with. I'll stick to really old proofs where you're happy to even get cameo.

>>

mgoodm3: I can relate and I agree. My only Proof Cameo is my Proof Morgan Dollar

It's a good start

XpipedreamR · April 17, 2004 10:35AM

I see you got the mailing this week, too, Russ

Clankeye · April 17, 2004 10:37AM

That's a good post, Russ.

Quit being helpful. It puts the bar too high for the rest of us.

Clankeye

Russ · April 17, 2004 10:38AM

<< I see you got the mailing this week, too, Russ >>

Actually, I've known about it for quite a while. He published it a couple years ago. This month's newsletter did remind me, though.

<< Rick Tomaska tried to get PCGS to have more designations than the three but they wouldn't go for it. >>

PCI has four levels - not that it means anything with them.

Russ, NCNE

Clankeye · April 17, 2004 10:43AM

ICCS has Cameo, Heavy Cameo, and Ultra Heavy Cameo.

As far as Canadian coins go--I like it.

Clankeye

WaterSport · April 17, 2004 10:54AM

Here we go again, making a complicated grading system even more complicated.....

ksteelheader · April 17, 2004 10:56AM

I believe this one will do a category #2.....Ken
.
.

DHeath · April 17, 2004 11:10AM

Dante mentioned seven levels.

HalfCents · April 17, 2004 11:11AM

So, level 7 would approximate an NGC "U-CAM"?

ksteelheader · April 17, 2004 11:14AM

HalfCents, that pig in your sig line is cute! Reminds me of someone, but I just can't figure out who....Ken...

Russ · April 17, 2004 11:15AM

<< So, level 7 would approximate an NGC "U-CAM"? >>

No. It would approximate some NGC UCAMs - those at the upper end of the contrast scale. The NGC UCAM designation is used in the same way as the PCGS DCAM designation, and it too will have variances in contrast.

Russ, NCNE

HalfCents · April 17, 2004 11:18AM

Thanks Ken. I appreciate the comment.

Thanks for the clarification, Russ. I DO appreciate it.

Tom

Shamika · April 17, 2004 11:44AM

At first I thought these were all the same coin.

CarlWohlforth · April 17, 2004 12:38PM

There could be many coins. Frost must be graded on a sliding scale. The dies wear down very, very slightly on each and every impression. So where do you draw a line? I've laid out a bunch of proof Jeffs and asked non-experts to arrange them according to frost. The brilliant and the DCAM+++ ends remain the same. There are minor differences of opinion in the middle. So where is the line? It is not so easy...

DHeath · April 17, 2004 12:49PM

Carl, you're right, and it's further complicated by two designs (obverse and reverse), and two dies with varying degrees of wear. Finding a coin from the first few strikings of both dies that has relatively few marks and no hairlines is just plain tough for the coins minted before 72.

supracoin · April 17, 2004 2:06PM

great illustration russ.

DCAMFranklin · April 17, 2004 2:17PM

Quality contrast

Well Carl, with no disclaimers in your auction description, I guess we are to assume the coins are accurately graded?

CarlWohlforth · April 18, 2004 3:11AM

DCAMFranklin: I do state the '63 is lightly frosted. It might be near the just missed it line for the PCGS Cameo standard. I think the '59 deserves Cameo and the '64 deserves DCAM even by the standards of services that didn't graded them.

Aethelred · May 9, 2004 11:56AM

Great thread!

airplanenut · May 9, 2004 12:02PM

<< PCI has four levels - not that it means anything with them. >>

Deep Cameo and...

What are the other three???

Baley · May 9, 2004 12:04PM

great thread Russ, this is very interesting info for those of us not on "the mailing list"

Russ · May 9, 2004 12:06PM

<< << PCI has four levels - not that it means anything with them. >>

Deep Cameo and...

What are the other three??? >>

Brilliant
Cameo
Deep Cameo
Ultra Cameo

Russ, NCNE

fcloud · May 9, 2004 12:13PM

Russ,
Thanks for the great information. Education is always appreciated. The more you learn--the less mistakes one makes.

DennisH · May 9, 2004 1:08PM

SUPER photos and comments. Many thanks for taking the time to post them and share your knowledge!

coolkarma · May 9, 2004 1:35PM

Russ,
As usual, thanks for some solid information and examples. In effect, I believe NGC now has 6 levels of cameo, thanks to their "star" rating: Proof, Proof "Star", Cameo, Cameo "Star", Ultra Cameo, and Ultra Cameo "Star". While you can get a "star" for appearance aspects other than cameo contrast, getting a "star" for toning on a cameo coin is unusual.

Richard

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · May 9, 2004 1:43PM

Since Russ is such a popular guy I'll ask him a couple of questions

1) Are all denominations in need of full obverse AND reverse Cameo or Deep Cameo designations?

2) Lincoln Cents are graded differently for Wheat cameos vs.Memorial cameos.Do you know what the graders are looking for in each of these categories ?

Stewart

dollardude · May 9, 2004 1:45PM

Russ, thanks for the lesson. I wasn't aware of these levels. Also, thanks for explaining the NGC and PCI levels.

I do have one question. When you reach level seven, is that like being in seventh heaven?

Russ · May 10, 2004 2:23AM

Stewie,

Both your questions apply to Lincoln Cents so my answer would be: Who cares? They're Lincolns.

Yeah, I know that Lincolns don't have to be CAM/DCAM on both sides. I also know that the peripheral lettering is basically ignored and the graders focus on the larger central devices.

Russ, NCNE

100proof1957 · May 10, 2004 6:08AM

Russ,
i have a 1957 dcam proof 67 lincoln in a PCI holder (i know its a lincoln ! not my point,im just building a high grade proof set for myself)
i would bet a lot of money it wont make even cam at the big 2 !

Proof

Russ · May 10, 2004 6:23AM

<< i have a 1957 dcam proof 67 lincoln in a PCI holder (i know its a lincoln ! not my point,im just building a high grade proof set for myself)
i would bet a lot of money it wont make even cam at the big 2 ! >>

No surprise there. Everybody knows that PCI way overgrades and way over designates. The only ones who won't admit it are those who peddle their junk.

Russ, NCNE

LAWMAN · May 10, 2004 6:48AM

Most educational, Russ! Thanks for taking the time. I think you have a book-length topic there if you did it for, say, certain modern proofs, as submitted to the leading three grading services. The photos are real clear and I get the point. Thanks, again.