1889-CC COIN (non-coin) Ebay Ad. Fraud????

Ljr1964 · July 3, 2003 8:07PM

Take a look at this ad for another 1889-CC non-coin.

This guy sells many genuine Morgans.

Think he should know better than to call this non-coin a coin?

1889-CC BLAZING MORGAN NO RESERVE

Please tell me what you think.

Robgetty · July 3, 2003 8:15PM

Wow, he makes 2 vague references to the fact that it is not a coin, but
just a bullion novelty (the 1 oz. of .999 silver, and the serial # from the
place that made it) but it sure looks like he is trying to deceive someone
who is not paying attention. (Especially with the zero return policy and no
pictures of the reverse where it will show it is not a coin.)

Must be nice not to have a soul.

Coppernicus · July 3, 2003 8:16PM

Very deceptive, IMHO.

Louis · July 3, 2003 9:52PM

<< <i>Very deceptive, IMHO. >>

I concur.

tincup · July 3, 2003 10:12PM

What a rip-off!! This guy knows exactly what he is doing. Very, very deceptive; yet he has covered himself by the very vague references to the bullion content. Not picturing the reverse, not clearly stating that the item is not really a genuine coin, referencing other Carson City dollars that he is selling, hard to find in this condition/grade, listing under Morgan Dollars in the Coins category (instead of under bullion), no return policy, and private bidders (so we cannot warn them??). Very careful in wording. This guy appears to be quite experienced in highly deceptive auctions; a very calculated auction to snare the inexperienced.

It gives me a sick feeling in my stomach. Wonder if he needs sleeping aids to fall asleep at night (most likely not - probably has no remorse whatsoever to bother him). Bottom line---- Buyer Beware! Knowledge is KING.

Conder101 · July 3, 2003 10:56PM

Not to mention directing bidders to email and ask question. . . . but he's going to be unavailable for the last three days of the auction.

CapAnson · July 3, 2003 11:12PM

The price is already way above what it should probably be... was thinking of making an ID to jack it way up, but I guess technically since he hasn't lied...

beartracks42 · July 4, 2003 12:43AM

National Collectors Mint sells these things for $19.99 and will discount for multiples. My wife bought a colored SAE from them for one of her friends and we get their trash mailings every week. You can get a "PROOF 1933 $20 St. Gaudens (in silver) from them for $19.99 also. All of their literature features their president, Barry Goldwater, Jr.

bigindie · July 4, 2003 2:07AM

Any Morgan collector should be able to tell right off the bat that it's not a real coin. Miss Liberty looks like Karl Malden for God's Sake!

billboat · July 4, 2003 2:10AM

"Sweet coin--strong strike--nice find in this condition... ." Seller then states bullion content and references a private mint--a total fraud. But then again folks--what's new? Sellers of this ilk prey on people who have more money than brains. Ripoffs abound on Ebay and people need to pay attention to what they are buying--read the description, study the scans and avoid sellers without a return policy. (I've been had several times with overgraded coins--but I consider that my fault for not being more careful--I've also returned them and received refunds.) $130 for a $10 (value IMO) item is absurd--at least he should provide free shipping!

billboat · July 4, 2003 2:18AM

It gets even better--its a private auction so you can't tell who's bidding (but 23 bids listed--if I bid on this I guess I'd appreciate annonymity) AND s/h/p is $6.75--and it you want to insure this beauty it'll cost you extra!!!

cherrypickincoin · July 4, 2003 2:25AM

It's not only deceptive, it's illegal. He makes no reference to the coin being a copy, nor does he show a photograph of where it says Copy. He's trying to introduce a copy coin into commerce without selling it as such. Clearly a violation of the hobby protection act

Bigern · July 4, 2003 2:37AM

What a rip-off these are available thru www.ncmint.com for $9.95 plus $2.50 s/h. This guy should be shot or maybe the buyers should, not sure which. If you look at this spiel it also does not mention it is not real it reads as though its a real coin, history and all.

LINK

Bigern

topstuf · July 4, 2003 2:50AM

YOU STUPID FOOLS! It is just fine. Leave the poor guy alone!

At least that's what................... I ................was told in my thread on virtually the same subject.
In fact, in reply to my thread, cherrypickincoin stepped right up and told me I was WRONG to think that such practices were illegal.

So...... *F* ....the public.....and the collectors...... It's just .... f i n e.....

Wotta bunch! WHEN, not IF, the hobby is ruined by non enforcement of the INTENT of the Hobby Protection Act...........just refer to my thread and shut up and enjoy your copies.

MY almost identical thread with far DIFFERENT replies.

(mayybee the poor seller haddums made beforre the act was passed....boo hoo)

ksteelheader · July 4, 2003 3:19AM

While the auction may appear to be deceptive, the buyer has to be accountable for his/her actions. The seller does state what the coin is............LIMITED FROM NATIONAL COLLECTORS MINT-SER# BK1658..This alone makes him legal. Sorry, but thats my opinion on this.....Ken

Oldtrader3 · July 4, 2003 3:20AM

I think that EBay needs to take some responsibility for policing their listings. Particularly their Power Sellers. EBay lets Power Sellers do anything that they want. When pressed, all EBay does is offer excuses for their laisez faire attitude. This guy is selling a $9.99 coin replica for $150.00. It should be required to label these copies as "COPY" or "Replica" in the primary listing heading.

Ljr1964 · July 6, 2003 11:36AM

This "non-coin" is at $630+.

I hope scamcrook is bidding on this.

Russ · July 6, 2003 11:43AM

<< <i>its a private auction so you can't tell who's bidding >>

Most of his coin auctions are private. Obvious he doesn't want anybody warned. This one is a future NARU for fraud. Too bad a bunch of people are going to get ripped off before that happens.

Russ, NCNE

BillJones · July 6, 2003 12:34PM

This is the kind of garbage that gives Ebay a bad name and makes it harder for the honest people who try to do business there.

This guy should be prosecuted for mail fraud and banned from Ebay. This is a crooked scam, plain and simple.

BTW I'm sure he did not show the reverse because there is probably the word "COPY" stamped in back there just as the law requires.

carterhaines · July 6, 2003 1:45PM

Is it just me, or do those repro's make liberties face look like clintons?

Russ · July 7, 2003 1:51AM

<< <i>Is it just me, or do those repro's make liberties face look like clintons? >>

Carterhaines,

Considering your less than ethical eBay practices it might be a good idea for you to avoid participation in this type of thread.

Russ, NCNE

NumisEd · July 7, 2003 1:58AM

I was waiting for someone to say that! Thanks Russ!

Newkid · July 7, 2003 2:19AM

This guy is clearly trying to snag people that are new to collecting thinking they are getting " somthing for nothing" or don`t know the difference.

theboz11 · July 7, 2003 2:30AM

Think I'll get one of those small statues of the Statue of Liberty and sell it to these guys. Don't they read the description. Could probably get a couple million for it.

DrWho · July 7, 2003 10:36PM

he gets $600 plus for a COPY. yet when i sell circ. morgan hole fillers, all i get is melt bids. must be doing the wrong thing, like being somewhat 'ethical'.

Dog97 · July 8, 2003 4:49AM

I'll disregard the technicalities & legalities of it and tell you the God's honest truth-it's a scam, fraud, rip-off!
HOWEVER this is no longer the goodle days where stupid people simply died off-they thrive now. The bidders need to share some responsibility for their own stupidness for not having the slightest clue about what they are buying because if they did they would know the total mintage of 1889-CC Proof Morgans was exactly 0.
True it's not in the original holder which designates it as a replica Proof with a COA of it’s fakeness but the bidders are obviously somewhat familiar with pretty Morgans having value but they don't stop & wonder why they are getting a MS DMPL 89-CC which is valued @ $20K in MS 63 & $60K in MS 64 for the measly price of $600? Shame on them.

Steve27 · July 8, 2003 5:11AM

Seems pretty obvious to me that everyone is at fault here:

Seller: Listing a non-coin as a coin (expecting some fool to think it's genuine).
Buyer: Not knowing that this is obviously not a Morgan (I don't spend $600+ on something I don't know much about).
ebay: Permitting a non-coin to be listed as a coin.

kamehameha00 · July 8, 2003 5:17AM

On Sun Jul 06 05:20:02 PDT 2003, seller added the following information:

This is a beautiful piece from the NATIONAL COLLECTORS MINT. Note: Morgan Dollars weight .78oz ..... This weighs 1.0 oz

coinguy1 · July 8, 2003 5:26AM

I see the seller also lists "Ret" prices for his Morgan and Peace dollars and that those prices have nothing to do with the quality of the coins he's selling.

He is smart enough not to list grades people can dispute, but, traps the greedy and/or unwary in with his sky-high/and misleading "Ret" prices. This guy clearly aims to deceive.

I just emailed him and asked him:

"Dear seller, What are your retail prices, which appear in your listings, based on? Thanks"

His reply was: "BOOKS, ECONOMY, OPINIONS".

I followed up by asking "relating to what grades? Thanks".

I have not heard back yet. Edited to add: He just replied: ""NORMALLY TOP". He sure is responsive, isn't he? I think he needs some negative feedback...............

Dog97 · July 8, 2003 5:27AM

>>>>This is a beautiful piece from the NATIONAL COLLECTORS MINT. Note: Morgan Dollars weight .78oz ..... This weighs 1.0 oz >>>>
GRRRR.....If I were a sleazeBay bidiot I would think that meant it was from a big reputable store that had lots of collector coins and the Mint had put some extra silver in it.

I voice DrWho's comments that when I list an honest coin with an honest description & free shipping with an honest return policy the only people that bid on my stuff are knowlegable collectors who only bid "greysheet" prices.

gsaguy · July 8, 2003 6:24AM

Interesting negs:

Complaint : misrepresentation very sneaky .didnt accept return I paid shipping 3 times
Response by smac33328 - RECEIVED AS STATED IN A1 CHOICE CONDITION, FAST DEL.AAAAAAA

Complaint : Sneaky tactics, over charges for shipping; said nothing about min. purchase
Response by smac33328 - sellers Beware-does not read listing untill closed-profanity-rude-i have emails

Sounds like 'sneaky' comes to mind.

GSAGUY

coinguy1 · July 8, 2003 11:21AM

Ahhhh, I just got my wish. That sneaky, deceitful seller just received a negative feedback on Ebay.

ER · July 8, 2003 11:35AM

<< <i>Carterhaines,

Considering your less than ethical eBay practices it might be a good idea for you to avoid participation in this type of thread.

Russ, NCNE >>

We have unethical eBayer on this board? Give me the scoop, Russ.

gsaguy · July 8, 2003 12:41PM

<<Ahhhh, I just got my wish. That sneaky, deceitful seller just received a negative feedback on Ebay.>>

Good work!!! You really got him hot under the collar!

GSAGUY

vrtech99 · July 8, 2003 1:17PM

Dang nice scam, dang nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

coinguy1 · July 8, 2003 1:39PM

He IS hot under the collar. He sent a threatening email to my friend scamcrook.

Scamcrook forwarded it to Ebay, but still might be short-lived in his Ebay existence, as I'm sure the seller will try to get him NARU'd

Goldog63 · July 8, 2003 2:23PM

Topstuff,
The difference in the 2 listings is the one you linked had a reasonable Buy it Now price so no one is getting ripped off even if they wanted to. Also that one used the term REPLICA in the offering. Ebay should require clear indication of a copy, but they make too much money on this kind of thing to be inclined to stop it. It may be and should be thier downfall.

I feel the bidders are certainly foolish to risk that kind of money when they obviously know nothing about what they are bidding on. Why can't they just overbid on normal properly described coins sold by honest people?

DrWho · July 8, 2003 10:33PM

lets all of us retire. buy a 1933 Saint repo. sell it on ebay, as the 4th one.....NEW FIND, was in King George III collection!

all we need is a 'fool', that should be easy enough. we make millions, retire, buy coins in style.

any takers on the sham?

4thStooge · July 8, 2003 10:49PM

I amazed at all the posters on this thread figured out that the piece is a reproduction but believe that no one else is able to come to the same conclusion and bid appropriately. You came to the conclusion that you did because there is no misrepresentation in that auction. Because you don't like the manner in which the auction is presented does not translate into a misrepresentation.

MadMonk · July 8, 2003 11:34PM

I'll have to disagree. I also wonder about peoples sense of values. Yes there are legalities, and there is right and wrong. Yes, we deduced that it was a fake, we are collectors, dealers, etc. The majority of comments in this thread are against that type of sales practice. Thank God the majority here express good values, and an enlightened sense of right and wrong.

1889-CC COIN (non-coin) Ebay Ad. Fraud????

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