Change in strategy for BBCE?

CrissCriss · April 20, 2014 1:27PM

Sure looks like it. Auctioning off the best unopened they have, while their website gets stale. Haven't seen any real quality unopened since that vending box run 2 months ago. Trying to max out every buck in this unopened market?

Steelernation · April 20, 2014 1:40PM

Why would you say that? A genuine question. Havent been following that closely but the only 3 "vintage " baseball boxes they auctioned recently were on consignment because they didn't want to sell them to bbce. Per steve. Otherwise have there been other vintage boxes that were theirs? when did that start? because I'll have to follow their auctions more closely.

I was thinking their website was getting stale because they just can't find product. And may be saving what they do have for the national.

cardsfan73 · April 20, 2014 1:53PM

I am pretty sure,as the above poster mentioned, a lot of the stuff on ebay is consignment. They listed a bunch of vintage hockey & some 78 & 79 Baseball unopened today.

itzagoner · April 20, 2014 2:24PM

<< Auctioning off the best unopened they have...... >>

and you know this how? you must be typing from inside their showcase.

lawnmowerman · April 20, 2014 2:43PM

<< Auctioning off the best unopened they have...... >>

How dare them for trying to make money! Off with the capitalist pig's head's!

sportscardstop · April 20, 2014 2:49PM

If BBCE puts the items on their site, people get mad when they get picked off in 5 minutes. Now they put them up for auction so everyone who is interested has a chance at the box and you will have people who imply they are getting greedy.

They will never be able to make everyone happy.

mesapsa · April 20, 2014 2:56PM

I have to say that I completely dislike so called certified or "verified" wax boxes! I think its a waste of money folks! If you just have to have a certain card from a certain year your are way better off at the end of the day to buy a PSA 10 and know what you have rather than to pay someone to wrap a box of cards up with plastic, spend 10 times the value of that one certain card that your looking for! I like BBCE but think they need to get out of the box certification market! That is what we use PSA for, they are the certifiers and BBCE sell wax boxes, end of story!

Stooge · April 20, 2014 3:00PM

I really could care less HOW they sell authentic unopened boxes of cards, just as long as they CONTINUE to sell them.

Worse case is they never have any to sell period, then what would people say?

Paul.

uncutsheetbuyer · April 20, 2014 3:00PM

LOL do you have any idea who even grades packs for psa ?

slum22 · April 20, 2014 3:48PM

<< I have to say that I completely dislike so called certified or "verified" wax boxes! I think its a waste of money folks! If you just have to have a certain card from a certain year your are way better off at the end of the day to buy a PSA 10 and know what you have rather than to pay someone to wrap a box of cards up with plastic, spend 10 times the value of that one certain card that your looking for! I like BBCE but think they need to get out of the box certification market! That is what we use PSA for, they are the certifiers and BBCE sell wax boxes, end of story! >>

I happen to be on the other side of the coin with your opinion. It seems like your argument is that you should not have boxes verified by BBCE just to open them to try and hit a high grade single. I would agree with the second half of your statement. I believe it is generally a losing proposition with most high dollar unopened to try and open them in hopes of catching a PSA 10/high grade single. In most cases, you will pay less and have less risk simply buying graded singles vs. ripping unopened and submitting. If I want a PSA 10 or 9 card, I generally just buy them already graded.

That said, I am an unopened collector as well, and I have bought a number of boxes from numerous sources and sent them to Steve to have them authenticated and wrapped. To have an expert authenticate the boxes is well worth the price he charges. I think it is a great service for the industry. As far as it being a waste of money, if you look at realized sales for BBCE sealed boxes vs. the same non-authenticated boxes on eBay, I don't think you can argue there is a value to having a high dollar unopened box authenticated by BBCE. PSA grades cards and certain packs, but not unopened boxes. In that vacuum, I am glad BBCE fills that void.

ssollars · April 20, 2014 4:10PM

<< I have to say that I completely dislike so called certified or "verified" wax boxes! I think its a waste of money folks! If you just have to have a certain card from a certain year your are way better off at the end of the day to buy a PSA 10 and know what you have rather than to pay someone to wrap a box of cards up with plastic, spend 10 times the value of that one certain card that your looking for! I like BBCE but think they need to get out of the box certification market! That is what we use PSA for, they are the certifiers and BBCE sell wax boxes, end of story! >>

First off, when has PSA ever "certified" unopened boxes? Packs, sort of, boxes no! Secondly, you do know the BBCE certifies the authenticity of the packs that PSA grades, right? Thirdly, a lot of people buy unopened because it is just that and they plan to keep it that way, no waste of money on their part. They do it because that's what they like to collect and/or like anyone that has watched the unopened market over the last few years can plainly see that buying, keeping and maybe down the road selling, has been and likely will continue to be a wise investment!

And then there are people like myself

, who love the thrill/gamble of opening packs and don't do it to necessarily find a single card that I may be looking for that I know I can buy already "out of the pack" or even graded.

Lastly, with PSA's recently changed grading standards for packs, I can only see this trend increasing. I, as a pack ripper, will be very hesitant to buy newly graded PSA packs now that the likely hood of card damage from gum is almost guaranteed.

Scott

elsnorto · April 20, 2014 4:25PM

<< I have to say that I completely dislike so called certified or "verified" wax boxes! I think its a waste of money folks! If you just have to have a certain card from a certain year your are way better off at the end of the day to buy a PSA 10 and know what you have rather than to pay someone to wrap a box of cards up with plastic, spend 10 times the value of that one certain card that your looking for! I like BBCE but think they need to get out of the box certification market! That is what we use PSA for, they are the certifiers and BBCE sell wax boxes, end of story! >>

Ah, so, it's foolish to spend 10 times more money on a box certified authentic by the hobby's leading authority vs. one that isn't. But paying 10 times more money to have a low pop PSA 10 common certified gem mint by the hobby's leading authority vs. a raw mint card makes perfect sense? Were you trying to be ironic with that post?

Further, you are incorrect to assume others collect as you do. I am sure many unopened collectors have no plans to rip their stash and, if they did, wouldn't submit them to PSA. A good deal of the value they, and the collective unopened market, place on these items are the fact it is unopened, authentic, and decidedly finite in comparison to the contents itself.

Snorto~

mesapsa · April 20, 2014 4:27PM

Well I do not know Steve at BBCE or his staff, I am sure they are all stand up guys but if I for example had a high dollar wax box, say a full box of 1986 Fleer Basketball, I would feel a lot better sending them into PSA than to send them into BBCE. I understand that PSA does not currently grade wax product but I feel as this will change very soon as it is a wide open market for PSA to jump into. Also how long until someone gets ahold of some of the BBCE plastic wrap and starts to possibly remove packs from boxes? I think unopen is awesome but like I stated in my earlier post that your better off to just purchase a high grade PSA or even a BGS card rather than to think of that card just possibly being in that unopen product.

I puchasee several packs of 1993 SP baseball a few years back and opened them up, every card in the pack was either bent, scratched or highly damaged. In my opinion just collect the empty box as a memory rather than the packs that do not always produce high quality "fruit" and that is what drives most people in the collecting world. Now if there was a full 1952 Topps wax box that was for sale than my position would probably change!

thehallmark · April 20, 2014 4:32PM

I think you're missing the big picture here. PSA already uses BBCE to authenticate unopened product.

elsnorto · April 20, 2014 4:41PM

<< Well I do not know Steve at BBCE or his staff, I am sure they are all stand up guys but if I for example had a high dollar wax box, say a full box of 1986 Fleer Basketball, I would feel a lot better sending them into PSA than to send them into BBCE. >>

PSA doesn't grade boxes.

<< Also how long until someone gets ahold of some of the BBCE plastic wrap and starts to possibly remove packs from boxes? >>

Surely you are aware that fake PSA slabs have been on the market for some time, not to mention people cracking slabs and replacing the contents with inferior examples

<< I think unopen is awesome but like I stated in my earlier post that your better off to just purchase a high grade PSA or even a BGS card rather than to think of that card just possibly being in that unopen product. >>

Again, you assume everyone collects as you. Not everyone cares to collect PSA/SGC/BGS cards.

<< In my opinion just collect the empty box as a memory rather than the packs that do not always produce high quality "fruit" and that is what drives most people in the collecting world. >>

For some, the unopened product is the fruit.

Snorto~

mesapsa · April 20, 2014 4:59PM

I think if I was PSA that some research will be done in regards to the costs involved in to develop a system for unopen wax box grading, similar to GAI. PSA is currently missing out on this business.

Steelernation · April 20, 2014 6:01PM

"I have to say that I completely dislike so called certified or "verified" wax boxes! I think its a waste of money folks! If you just have to have a certain card from a certain year your are way better off at the end of the day to buy a PSA 10 and know what you have rather than to pay someone to wrap a box of cards up with plastic, "

I'm having trouble following ur line of reasoning. First u don't want verified boxes but then u think PSA should verify boxes and not steve. Forgetting the fact that it is steve that verifies wax for PSA, u gave your reasoning. But then ur worried PSA is missing out on that business so should enter it. So u do want verified boxes?
Your misstep is that instead of comparing apples to apples. It's the same apple...steve. Put whatever initials on the plastic wrap u want to.

I just dont understand why ur adamant bbce needs to get out of the certification market and "just sell boxes." What difference does it make?
If PSA built a rock solid reputation that steve has for authentication then i don't think anyone would argue with u whether it's PSA or bbce.
Explain to me what the difference would be....

Back to the OP's point. I do agree that it would be better for bbce to go with the auction format. But for me it's in my favor to risk missing that 10 hr window vs going against the whims of one or two bidders getting auction fever and driving up ridiculous prices. Which I def do and have participated in setting/pushing the various "new, current" high prices for unopened material. Sooo.....shhhhhh. The king is wearing clothes.

Time4aGansett · April 20, 2014 8:38PM

<< Sure looks like it. Auctioning off the best unopened they have, while their website gets stale. Haven't seen any real quality unopened since that vending box run 2 months ago. Trying to max out every buck in this unopened market? >>

Why not? Aren't you doing the same with your B/S/T post?

Meatloaf · April 20, 2014 9:04PM

derailed...

Baez578 · April 20, 2014 11:10PM

<< If BBCE puts the items on their site, people get mad when they get picked off in 5 minutes. Now they put them up for auction so everyone who is interested has a chance at the box and you will have people who imply they are getting greedy.

They will never be able to make everyone happy. >>

+1

70ToppsFanatic · April 20, 2014 11:57PM

Best I can figure the issue for BBCE is lack of supply. There just isn't that much
vintage unopened available on the market.

BBCE probably has the most knowledge of what exists and who has it. Therefore
they are the most likely to get first crack at it when/if it does come available.

There is no change in strategy. It's just the realities of the current supply and demand.

fergie23 · April 21, 2014 12:20AM

I do think it is a change in strategy but mostly from the sellers. Why accept the BBCE buy price when you can get significantly more on eBay. For smaller collections this makes much more sense than selling directly to BBCE especially if they are willing to authenticate the boxes as part of the process. BBCE has done consignments before but mostly with boxes or packs that were listed on their website.
I do expect to start seeing more and more fake BBCE wrapped product especially with the premium BBCE wrapping comes with.

Robb

baz518 · April 21, 2014 3:23AM

As a business, you always have to look at maximizing revenue... but unopened is a tough market right now. The higher end boxes are what go so quickly on his website... but at that higher dollar, the eBay fees are at their highest as well. I look at eBay prices on unopened boxes as being somewhat inflated simply because of the seller is making that much money (minus eBay/transaction fees) and the buyer is always paying that much money (coupons, eBay Bucks, etc.)... so I don't think looking at past sales is a true "market value".

But maybe this is the future of BBCE's older unopened boxes or maybe it's just an experiment to figure out a good pricing point on some of these boxes... so he can sell them without eBay fees in the future. Either way, I'll be watching to see what those go for... I think a recession is about the only thing that could cool down the unopened market right now.

gemint · April 21, 2014 4:32AM

Whoa, stop the presses! $1700 and counting for a 1979 Topps BB wax box? I can't believe I let two go last year for under $500.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Topps-Baseball-Unopened-Wax-Box-BBCE-Wrapped-and-Authenticated-/131171579353?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item1e8a6f75d9

Nikklos · April 21, 2014 4:53AM

<< Whoa, stop the presses! $1700 and counting for a 1979 Topps BB wax box? I can't believe I let two go last year for under $500. >>

Jeez, I remember buying one for $400 a couple years ago from BBCE. Even then it was a questionable rip value proposition.

Dpeck100 · April 21, 2014 4:54AM

Link

baz518 · April 21, 2014 4:55AM

Yeah, that's crazy! They just had a 79 cello box sell for $1400 and I thought that was crazy (a couple before that sold for closer to $1200). Prices are bubbling up quickly.

LarkinCollector · April 21, 2014 4:57AM

That's amazing with 6 days to go still. Will this one crack $2k?

Dpeck100 · April 21, 2014 4:58AM

1978 is at $2,000

1978

JustinsShoebox · April 21, 2014 5:01AM

<< 1978 is at $2,000

1978 >>

Wow...I'm afraid to see what 1977 would be at now.

Justin

belz · April 21, 2014 5:07AM

I've bought quite a bit directly from BBCE...the first batch they put up on ebay a couple weeks ago was consignment...not sure if these current ones are, but I would think so. In my opinion BBCE would build their own auction site if they were to get into that aspect of the business.

On another note, I'd much rather buy a bbce box directly from bbce, then someone else that got their box bbce wrapped, but Steve is the best in the business and not looking to rip anyone off. He charges a percentage of the value of a box to authenticate as it has value to the seller, and his time has value. The credibility will be lost almost immediately if someone opens an authenticated BBCE box and the packs aren't sealed or of a different year etc. I just don't see that happening and if so, it would be a red flag not to BBCE but the whistle blower, that wouldn't really be able to prove it.

I've purchased quite a bit over the years from Steve and the couple boxes that I've opened were pristine. The rest remain sealed.

Dpeck100 · April 21, 2014 5:11AM

If this was a PWCC auction I am sure a few would be calling foul on this guy. The under bidder on both.

Bid History: Details

Bidding Details

Bidder Information
Bidder: g***b( 557)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description: Item Title: 1979 Topps Baseball Unopened Wax Box BBCE Wrapped and Authenticated
Bids on this item: 5
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 6
Items bid on: 2
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100%
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0

30-Day Bid History
Category No. of Bids Seller Last Bid

Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball 5 Seller 1 6d 7h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball 1 Seller 1 6d 7h

<#1#>

<#1#>

To keep eBay a safe place for buyers and sellers, member-specific information is not displayed in the bid history. Review the rules for buyers - opens in a new window or tab.

grote15 · April 21, 2014 5:33AM

<< If this was a PWCC auction I am sure a few would be calling foul on this guy. The under bidder on both.

Bid History: Details

Bidding Details

Bidder Information
Bidder: g***b( 557)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description: Item Title: 1979 Topps Baseball Unopened Wax Box BBCE Wrapped and Authenticated
Bids on this item: 5
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 6
Items bid on: 2
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100%
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0

30-Day Bid History
Category No. of Bids Seller Last Bid

Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball 5 Seller 1 6d 7h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball 1 Seller 1 6d 7h

<#1#>

<#1#>

To keep eBay a safe place for buyers and sellers, member-specific information is not displayed in the bid history. Review the rules for buyers - opens in a new window or tab. >>

Well, that bidder is at 100% bid activity because he has only bid on these two auctions in past 30 days, so I would not categorize that bidding pattern as suspicious.

Can't believe what these boxes are commanding--I remember buying 78 boxes for $500 dlvd not more than 2 years ago.

Dpeck100 · April 21, 2014 5:37AM

<< 

<< If this was a PWCC auction I am sure a few would be calling foul on this guy. The under bidder on both.

Bid History: Details

Bidding Details

Bidder Information
Bidder: g***b( 557)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description: Item Title: 1979 Topps Baseball Unopened Wax Box BBCE Wrapped and Authenticated
Bids on this item: 5
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 6
Items bid on: 2
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100%
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0

30-Day Bid History
Category No. of Bids Seller Last Bid

Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball 5 Seller 1 6d 7h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball 1 Seller 1 6d 7h

<#1#>

<#1#>

To keep eBay a safe place for buyers and sellers, member-specific information is not displayed in the bid history. Review the rules for buyers - opens in a new window or tab. >>

Well, that bidder is at 100% bid activity because he has only bid on these two auctions in past 30 days, so I would not categorize that bidding pattern as suspicious.

Can't believe what these boxes are commanding--I remember buying 78 boxes for $500 dlvd not more than 2 years ago. >>

There is no way to tell in a case like this one way or another. Since it was brought up that these could be someone elses I am sure a few will find this suspicous.

Either way explosive action.

byronscott4ever · April 21, 2014 5:42AM

I'm guessing they make more on a sale from their site versus ebay. So they can take one box, auction it, and see what the public "values" it at and then in theory, they could raise the price on any other similar product on their website to reflect the auction price and make a better profit. I don't know that they are doing this--and it's theirs to do with it whatever they want--just speculating.

Raulsmaster · April 21, 2014 6:03AM

These prices are ridiculous. I don't care what anyone says, who it's wrapped by or who it's slabbed by. '79 isn't that rare and 10's are really tough to pull, even out of a good box where centering is decent throughout. Even if you do pull a high profile 10 or two or three, you'll never get your investment back. How anyone is comfortable paying those numbers and feeling good about it is beyond me.

baz518 · April 21, 2014 6:36AM

<< How anyone is comfortable paying those numbers and feeling good about it is beyond me. >>

Hammer hits nail on head... smells like a gold bubble from the early 80s. I don't know how you can justify prices rising hundreds of dollars in a matter of a couple weeks.... over a year+ long period. I'll be sitting out a while, that's for sure.

jfkheat · April 21, 2014 7:26AM

<< These prices are ridiculous. I don't care what anyone says, who it's wrapped by or who it's slabbed by. '79 isn't that rare and 10's are really tough to pull, even out of a good box where centering is decent throughout. Even if you do pull a high profile 10 or two or three, you'll never get your investment back. How anyone is comfortable paying those numbers and feeling good about it is beyond me. >>

The people that buy these boxes at this price will never open them. Opening just about any vintage box of cards is almost always a losing proposition.
James

harrell84 · April 21, 2014 7:42AM

<< Sure looks like it. Auctioning off the best unopened they have, while their website gets stale. Haven't seen any real quality unopened since that vending box run 2 months ago. Trying to max out every buck in this unopened market? >>

this coming from the guy that has his unopened priced at 150% of market on the BST board, lol.

spazzy · April 22, 2014 6:08AM

I see that BBCE has a 1978 rack box on ebay and the bid is up to almost 2k. It will go higher. It is BBCE sealed which is good but it doesn't say its from a case. I see that someone else has a 3 box rack case of 1978 on line too. If the price goes up on that single rack box, I think the best buy would be the 3 box rack case because it will be straight from a case and thus more valuable if it is indeed factory sealed as a future investment. I would not be surprised that BBCE doesn't snap it up themselves if the box goes large so they would have something for the National. I would love to know how many 78 or 79 rack cases that are legit still exist.

esquiresports · April 22, 2014 6:11AM

<< I see that BBCE has a 1978 rack box on ebay and the bid is up to almost 2k. It will go higher. It is BBCE sealed which is good but it doesn't say its from a case. I see that someone else has a 3 box rack case of 1978 on line too. If the price goes up on that single rack box, I think the best buy would be the 3 box rack case because it will be straight from a case and thus more valuable if it is indeed factory sealed as a future investment. I would not be surprised that BBCE doesn't snap it up themselves if the box goes large so they would have something for the National. I would love to know how many 78 or 79 rack cases that are legit still exist. >>

I don't believe that BBCE will be snatching that three box rack case up at $13,000 or anywhere near that number.

spazzy · April 29, 2014 5:28AM

Ok...so....the 1978 topps baseball rack box from bbce went for 3500.00 and it was not straight from case. The 1978 topps 3 box sealed rack case for 12,999 did not sell. I cant believe that someone has not snached up the case at even that high price. Last year the prices were high and now they have gone up 25% more. I know it has to level off somewhere but a sealed case has to have a premium if it is not damaged. It seems like there is some unlimited money out there or these high auction prices for unopened would not be happening. I don't believe folks are paying these prices for an future investment but as to have something rare. A few years ago, I remember the discussion about a 78 rack case for 5k which was on for about a year on ebay and no one purchased it because they thought it was too high.

cpamike · April 29, 2014 5:39AM

<< A few years ago, I remember the discussion about a 78 rack case for 5k which was on for about a year on ebay and no one purchased it because they thought it was too high. >>

I think of that auction quite a bit now. I thought it was a ridiculous price as well at the time. Anyone could have bought it, but it just sat there for what seemed like forever. There was also a 1976 Topps wax box listed on eBay forever as well for $1,800 IIRC. Always thought I'd be able to buy this stuff whenever I was ready, LOL.

fiveniner · April 29, 2014 8:47AM

They call it supply and demand.Steve has a business to run and is gonna sell not wait for someone to buy his stuff. Prices jumps as supply goes down.Steve is a great business man and very professional in my book.

runningman · April 29, 2014 8:58AM

Dude, are you kidding, you've been around long enough to know that you can't mention BBCE in any way that can be deemed anything but glowing love or people will kill you on here, c'mon man !

spazzy · May 15, 2014 2:17AM

<< Ok...so....the 1978 topps baseball rack box from bbce went for 3500.00 and it was not straight from case. The 1978 topps 3 box sealed rack case for 12,999 did not sell. I cant believe that someone has not snached up the case at even that high price. Last year the prices were high and now they have gone up 25% more. I know it has to level off somewhere but a sealed case has to have a premium if it is not damaged. It seems like there is some unlimited money out there or these high auction prices for unopened would not be happening. I don't believe folks are paying these prices for an future investment but as to have something rare. A few years ago, I remember the discussion about a 78 rack case for 5k which was on for about a year on ebay and no one purchased it because they thought it was too high. >>

Based on BBCE new buy prices (78 rack case 10k, 79 rack case 7500) and lots of other prices that went up, I could see that 78 rak case from Vero cards sell for 12.999 now since Steve normally has a 20-25% mark up which would put that case at 12k-12.5k . Who knows if that was the case that steve opened for his latest auction which is now at 3400.00 with a few more days to go. These boxes are straight from a case unlike the last one steve listed

cpamike · May 15, 2014 6:48AM

<< Sure looks like it. Auctioning off the best unopened they have, while their website gets stale. Haven't seen any real quality unopened since that vending box run 2 months ago. Trying to max out every buck in this unopened market? >>

Right about what? This statement is not correct. BBCE states that they are selling boxes consigned to them, the consignor is just using them instead of Probstein, PWCC, etc. figuring they are known for selling unopened.

itzagoner · May 15, 2014 6:58AM

I can't believe the news today
Oh, I can't close my eyes
And make it go away.....

cpamike · May 15, 2014 7:00AM

<< I can't believe the news today
Oh, I can't close my eyes
And make it go away..... >>

How long, how long must we sing this song?

Change in strategy for BBCE?

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