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Facepalm: eBay story of amusement & pattycakes.
itzagoner
Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
the day before Christmas, i got a message from eBay notifying me of an Account Warning with an explanation and some rather interesting gobbledy-gook about the number of Buyer Protection cases i've opened or breaking buyer rules, or some other such abuse, so i decided to call CS and find out if anyone had complained about me trying to return improperly described goods or getting refunds, and got the first person, whose name i can't recall, but was very pleasant and told me they couldn't tell me anything specific, but i was persistent, so CS person #1 turned me over to CS person #2, whose name i can't pronounce, but was very pleasant and told me they couldn't tell me anything specific, but please hold, and when CS #2 came back on the line, he said i should "Reply".
WTF?
yes, i should click on the tab called Reply and ask them for an explanation........so, i did and waited for a Reply to my Reply.
yesterday, i received my Reply with instructions........to CALL Customer Service.
WTF?
so, i called and spoke with another CS person, whose name contained many vowels, and he too was very pleasant, in fact, he called me Mr. Jeff, because that's my name.
i asked if someone had complained about me and he said "No, it's just the number of Buyer Protection cases and it has exceeded the limit, so we are asking if you could be more careful about how you resolve issues with the sellers."
"So, what's the limit?", I asked.
"Fifteen."
"Oh, I think I've got at least 30 this year, maybe more."
"I know, Mr. Jeff. I see this information on your account."
"So, you're suggesting I try to get my satisfaction out of the so-called Buyer Protection eBay offers me by attempting to settle with people privately, thereby potentially losing my so-called Buyer Protection if one of these sellers wants to make things difficult?"
"Yes."
"Ok, as long as we understand each other."
"Yes, Mr. Jeff."
Ok, I promise to work things out with the sellers and without you guys, even though it puts my buying capabilities at risk. Thanks eBay. Makes a ton of sense to offer me such protection and then place limits on it. My bad.
LOL.
today, i received another message from them, regarding my status as a seller.....it appears i've regained my Top-Rated Seller status due to my diligent efforts and tireless dedication to eBay buyers throughout the land, and so the TRS icon, as well as my 20% discount have been reinstated and all of the long hours and agony are finally just a distant memory, and i salute ME, the fighter, the scrapper, the Little Guy with the Big Cajones.....YESSIR, i am still standing.
and, considering the fact i have sold NOT ONE SINGLE FREEKING THING ON EBAY SINCE MID-OCTOBER, it is now quite clear just what it takes to be a chief in a massive fuster-clunk of confused indians.
smiles and laughs. Happy Holidays gang.
WTF?
yes, i should click on the tab called Reply and ask them for an explanation........so, i did and waited for a Reply to my Reply.
yesterday, i received my Reply with instructions........to CALL Customer Service.
WTF?
so, i called and spoke with another CS person, whose name contained many vowels, and he too was very pleasant, in fact, he called me Mr. Jeff, because that's my name.
i asked if someone had complained about me and he said "No, it's just the number of Buyer Protection cases and it has exceeded the limit, so we are asking if you could be more careful about how you resolve issues with the sellers."
"So, what's the limit?", I asked.
"Fifteen."
"Oh, I think I've got at least 30 this year, maybe more."
"I know, Mr. Jeff. I see this information on your account."
"So, you're suggesting I try to get my satisfaction out of the so-called Buyer Protection eBay offers me by attempting to settle with people privately, thereby potentially losing my so-called Buyer Protection if one of these sellers wants to make things difficult?"
"Yes."
"Ok, as long as we understand each other."
"Yes, Mr. Jeff."
Ok, I promise to work things out with the sellers and without you guys, even though it puts my buying capabilities at risk. Thanks eBay. Makes a ton of sense to offer me such protection and then place limits on it. My bad.
LOL.
today, i received another message from them, regarding my status as a seller.....it appears i've regained my Top-Rated Seller status due to my diligent efforts and tireless dedication to eBay buyers throughout the land, and so the TRS icon, as well as my 20% discount have been reinstated and all of the long hours and agony are finally just a distant memory, and i salute ME, the fighter, the scrapper, the Little Guy with the Big Cajones.....YESSIR, i am still standing.
and, considering the fact i have sold NOT ONE SINGLE FREEKING THING ON EBAY SINCE MID-OCTOBER, it is now quite clear just what it takes to be a chief in a massive fuster-clunk of confused indians.
smiles and laughs. Happy Holidays gang.
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Comments
1. I had a problem with Macy's before Christmas, and the CS rep kept calling me "Mr. Michael," so I feel your pain.
2. It is nice to see that eBay does SOMETHING to try to prevent scam artist buyers from screwing sellers, but...
3. This doesn't seem like a good solution. Why are you only allowed to run into 15 problem sellers per year? After 15 you're SOL? I know for a fact that there are more than 15 problem sellers, and maybe should eBay do a better job of kicking repeat offenders off eBay rather than limiting our ability to claim the Buyer Protection they offer to protect ourselves against problem members.
<< <i>and, considering the fact i have sold NOT ONE SINGLE FREEKING THING ON EBAY SINCE MID-OCTOBER, it is now quite clear just what it takes to be a chief in a massive fuster-clunk of confused indians. >>
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>Post your Ebay ID and I will put you on my blocked list (as well many others). My gosh dude. 30!? I think you should be shopping at Nordstroms! You are buying stuff on Ebay and if you have opened 30 cases this year your expectations are well beyond reasonable in my opinion. I have been buying on stuff on ebay since 1998 and have never filed one of those buyer protection deals. >>
30 is a lot, but A) we don't know how many transactions are involved total in order to yield a percentage, and
anybody who would like to know my ID, it's right here for you to see.
before you go to the trouble of blocking me, please do take a long look at the positive testimonials from the large majority of people whom i DO successfully transact with.
i don't go out of my way to be a troublemaker, it comes quite naturally. if your item is NOT AS DESCRIBED, i will insist on sending it back. therein lies the explanation, and it's pretty unavoidable, as sometimes it just so happens that i receive an item which isn't what the seller intended it to be.
i understand this fact. and i will continue to employ whatever means are necessary to protect my interests as a buyer.
which is exactly what i told them.
2 are still open - the seller apologized for not having shipped the items, and indicated he was putting in some additional cards by way of apology (I haven't received the shipment yet).
8 (all from one seller) closed by eBay CS reviewing and finding in my favor (the seller was NARU by that point).
3 more closed when the sellers sent refunds and emailed to say they had shipped without any tracking. 2 of those (one seller) arrived after spending at least 28 days with the USPS. I sent that seller the money again today. Still no sign of the cards on the other.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
~WalterSobchak
<< <i>i'm flattered. >>
Don't flatter yourself. Only the worst Ebay buyers make my BBL Mr. Jeff
~WalterSobchak
ok, so i did my further research, and it is indeed a total of EXACTLY 30 different cases with 30 different sellers.....the reality of it kinda sinks in as i think back to the reason behind each case.....
25 items returned not as described.
4 items returned and subsequently transaction was canceled, item not as described.
1 item lost in the mail, money refunded, case closed.
i followed procedure as mandated by their system. i won every case and returned every card. 30 for 30. now they are threatening me with sanctions for further transgressions.
and Mr. Archinanator, i roll the dice and pay the price nearly every day. glad to share my collection of properly described cards with you anytime you're available.
the returned cards are the improperly described ones. you prolly din't wanna see those anyways.
Its different with every buyer of course.
But I guess ebay sees why does someone have a problem every month +. or something. 15 is a lot but its not if the buyer buys over 3000 itmes a year. I dont understan the dashboard stuff that well. But I can see how ebay would put a limit of 15.
i do question myself for using the system as a crutch, but the system is the system.
my intentions are still pretty much the same, but i will be much more selective than i have been in the past.
<< <i>Another solution for you...open an eBay buying account for raw cards so if your account becomes limited...since it is a buying account...who cares! >>
Unless you have a completely separate Paypal, separate banking information, and different address, Ebay will "connect" the two accounts and what you do on either one will affect both.
"Molon Labe"
Seriously, are you guys for real? Block Jeff?
One thing I can say, he might have had 30 problems, what he did not have was 30 posts about each one.
I remember one in all the years I've been here.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
not selling anything it magically re appeared.
<< <i>Seriously, are you guys for real? Block Jeff? >>
+1
<< <i>One thing I can say, he might have had 30 problems, what he did not have was 30 posts about each one. >>
+ a whole lot more than 1
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>Seriously, are you guys for real? Block Jeff? >>
My comment about blocking him wasn't meant to be serious, I hope Mr. Jeff realized that.
~WalterSobchak
<< <i>You're only supposed to open a buyer protection case if you tried to work out the problem with the seller and they're not cooperating. Most sellers are eager to fix a problem if contacted. Opening a case with no prior contact with the seller is unnecessary and a waste of Ebay's time and resources. If OP claims he did try to work it out with the sellers before filing the buyer protection case then the number of issues he got himself into had to be far greater than 30. OP can gamble all he wants but Ebay doesn't want him wasting their time when his reckless risks don't pay off. >>
incorrect.....but, thank you for playing, and your consolation prize can be picked up on the way out.
according to policy, the seller has 24 hours to respond to my direct complaint, after which i have the right to file.....it's an ambiguous system, to be sure, but the important factor here is that i follow protocol, and they never accused me of NOT following protocol, so here's the lowdown.....
in most cases, the sellers DID respond appropriately, however, i felt it completely necessary to offer myself the protection i'm afforded by the system, and only a couple of them wanted to know why, so i explained my position and they understood......perhaps a bit reluctantly. so be it.
the only times i circumvented the system and filed immediately is when i felt there was no basis for trust with sellers who used shady practices, including swapping cards or outright deception about condition.
would you feel comfortable trying to negotiate a return in good faith with someone whom you already knew was trying to rip you off?
with regards to recklessness, in my opinion it's a character trait which is somewhat important to have in the eBay world, particularly with cards i believe you need a gunslinger mentality to succeed at times.....i suffered losses due to timidity, and after identifying that flaw in my approach, things got a lot better.
others may feel differently about it. i understand that, too.
and yes, there were more issues than the Dirty 30......i DID work out several more privately, successfully, and those were the folks i felt strong enough about to extend my trust.
<< <i>
<< <i>You're only supposed to open a buyer protection case if you tried to work out the problem with the seller and they're not cooperating. Most sellers are eager to fix a problem if contacted. Opening a case with no prior contact with the seller is unnecessary and a waste of Ebay's time and resources. If OP claims he did try to work it out with the sellers before filing the buyer protection case then the number of issues he got himself into had to be far greater than 30. OP can gamble all he wants but Ebay doesn't want him wasting their time when his reckless risks don't pay off. >>
incorrect.....but, thank you for playing, and your consolation prize can be picked up on the way out.
according to policy, the seller has 24 hours to respond to my direct complaint, after which i have the right to file.....it's an ambiguous system, to be sure, but the important factor here is that i follow protocol, and they never accused me of NOT following protocol, so here's the lowdown.....
in most cases, the sellers DID respond appropriately, however, i felt it completely necessary to offer myself the protection i'm afforded by the system, and only a couple of them wanted to know why, so i explained my position and they understood......perhaps a bit reluctantly. so be it.
the only times i circumvented the system and filed immediately is when i felt there was no basis for trust with sellers who used shady practices, including swapping cards or outright deception about condition.
would you feel comfortable trying to negotiate a return in good faith with someone whom you already knew was trying to rip you off?
with regards to recklessness, in my opinion it's a character trait which is somewhat important to have in the eBay world, particularly with cards i believe you need a gunslinger mentality to succeed at times.....i suffered losses due to timidity, and after identifying that flaw in my approach, things got a lot better.
others may feel differently about it. i understand that, too.
and yes, there were more issues than the Dirty 30......i DID work out several more privately, successfully, and those were the folks i felt strong enough about to extend my trust. >>
You sound like a whiner and an abuser of the system to me. You are justifying the fact that you take risks on Ebay buying raw cards, fully knowing most sellers on Ebay are selling crap raw, and then if you don't come out ahead on the deal (i.e. one of the few honest sellers or a clueless seller) then you complain. Regardless of whether you are working within the system or not you sound like a whiner and an abuser of the system. The lawyers that go around filing frivilous ADA lawsuits are working within the system too but eventually Courts bar them from filing more lawsuits! The truth is when people abuse the system the system gets tweaked and there is less protection for others. I realize it's not a big deal as it's just Ebay but I am glad Ebay has limits in place for people like you.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>You're only supposed to open a buyer protection case if you tried to work out the problem with the seller and they're not cooperating. Most sellers are eager to fix a problem if contacted. Opening a case with no prior contact with the seller is unnecessary and a waste of Ebay's time and resources. If OP claims he did try to work it out with the sellers before filing the buyer protection case then the number of issues he got himself into had to be far greater than 30. OP can gamble all he wants but Ebay doesn't want him wasting their time when his reckless risks don't pay off. >>
incorrect.....but, thank you for playing, and your consolation prize can be picked up on the way out.
according to policy, the seller has 24 hours to respond to my direct complaint, after which i have the right to file.....it's an ambiguous system, to be sure, but the important factor here is that i follow protocol, and they never accused me of NOT following protocol, so here's the lowdown.....
in most cases, the sellers DID respond appropriately, however, i felt it completely necessary to offer myself the protection i'm afforded by the system, and only a couple of them wanted to know why, so i explained my position and they understood......perhaps a bit reluctantly. so be it.
the only times i circumvented the system and filed immediately is when i felt there was no basis for trust with sellers who used shady practices, including swapping cards or outright deception about condition.
would you feel comfortable trying to negotiate a return in good faith with someone whom you already knew was trying to rip you off?
with regards to recklessness, in my opinion it's a character trait which is somewhat important to have in the eBay world, particularly with cards i believe you need a gunslinger mentality to succeed at times.....i suffered losses due to timidity, and after identifying that flaw in my approach, things got a lot better.
others may feel differently about it. i understand that, too.
and yes, there were more issues than the Dirty 30......i DID work out several more privately, successfully, and those were the folks i felt strong enough about to extend my trust. >>
You sound like a whiner and an abuser of the system to me. You are justifying the fact that you take risks on Ebay buying raw cards, fully knowing most sellers on Ebay are selling crap raw, and then if you don't come out ahead on the deal (i.e. one of the few honest sellers or a clueless seller) then you complain. Regardless of whether you are working within the system or not you sound like a whiner and an abuser of the system. The lawyers that go around filing frivilous ADA lawsuits are working within the system too but eventually Courts bar them from filing more lawsuits! The truth is when people abuse the system the system gets tweaked and there is less protection for others. I realize it's not a big deal as it's just Ebay but I am glad Ebay has limits in place for people like you. >>
ok, i get it. Bigjohn basically said the same thing a few posts ago.
i'm not denying it. nor would i attempt to blatantly defend myself for something which quite obviously seems to be a muddling of a process which is designed to protect people's consumer interests.
which is why i brought the topic here in the first place.
because i value the opinions of the people who are closest to the topic, and i expect to gain something from this experience, otherwise i would not have mentioned it and just kept on doing what i've been doing.
in discussion with CS, the term "buyer abuse" was brought up and i felt it necessary to explore that further as much as anything. i took it personally.
i do this because it's theraputic and i don't ignore good advice.
thank you.
I think we are all being punked.
Or are you just identifying the piranha among us?
You left over 1500 feedback in the last year and every single one of them positive. Thanks for warning other buyers about those terrible sellers.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>That's an interesting description of the dirty 30 - the only times i circumvented the system and filed immediately is when i felt there was no basis for trust with sellers who used shady practices, including swapping cards or outright deception about condition.
You left over 1500 feedback in the last year and every single one of them positive. Thanks for warning other buyers about those terrible sellers. >>
a) the large majority of my feedbacks were left for my buyers
b) i have no intention of lobbing bombs at people who agree to settle a matter of concern with me.....in several instances, i returned cards to sellers who simply did not adequately describe a card......some were so new to it, they didn't know exactly how......when i tracked the relisting of the same card, it included a proper description and references to flaws......i at least felt comfortable knowing that maybe the seller was better for it and would have positive future experiences transacting with other members......a negative on a relatively new account may hinder that possibility, and then, a potentially good seller gets wasted.
not what i want for anyone.
i have no fear of negging where it is appropriate.....the last time i did, i disclosed my opinion about a certain seller who gets an awful lotta negative publicity around here.
All along I thought it was the way Andre spelled it.
Let the flogging continue.
<< <i>The dirty 30 sellers sounded a lot more evil above. Now you claim none of them did anything wrong to warrant a negative. >>
maybe you should go back and reread my replies, particularly the most recent one.
i posted that i have no intention of lobbing bombs at people who agree to settle. in each and every case, they did.
that does not mean, however, that i am not entitled to the protection i have been afforded by the system.
just to elaborate, i also had a similar number of cases opened in the year 2010, and about half that number in 2009. i won every single case except ONE last year, which i should have won, but the seller got me on semantics. GRRRR!!
at no time in the past 3 years, until now, did anyone at eBay find it necessary to warn me about using the system to protect my consumer interests.
at no time in the past 3 years did anyone with whom i conducted a reversed transaction come forward and openly complain about it, at least not to me.
so, this isn't really about pointing fingers and warning the community, as much as it is about me enabling myself if i feel an item is not as described, and recovering my funds upon return of goods.
that's all.
why would it be necessary to neg someone who was ultimately cooperative in a single transaction?
if any of these people maintained a history of poor behavior with repeated offenses and complaints, eBay would supposedly boot them off anyways, regardless of whether of not they get negged.
If you blatanly get ripped off, nothing wrong with making a return but maybe you're not approaching sellers right initially?
<< <i>Just curious how many returns you made. I've made about 10-15 returns in the last couple years due to blatant issues (obvious alterations, creasing, etc), but offhand I can only remember one instance where I opened a claim and that was with a counterfeit card.
If you blatanly get ripped off, nothing wrong with making a return but maybe you're not approaching sellers right initially? >>
well, that goes back to the original point about taking risks, and yes, there are some instances where you guys might be scratching your heads about it, like if i throw a crazy bid at a card with a blurry scan and a vague description.
most folks would walk away from that. i approach it as an opportunity, but only with the thought in mind that i must abide by whatever protection the seller is afforded by proper representation.
if an item is not properly represented, then i would be guilty by not claiming so.
if i don't follow up with a claim as allowed by eBay's system, then what happens if another buyer becomes dissatisfied? and another?
the seller's history doesn't go away. it's as much of an obligation to manage the inappropriate actions of a seller as much as anything else, and the complaints do pile up if the problems are chronic.
THAT is why i file.
<< <i>I did not bother to read everything so this may have been addressed. Do you try and get the seller to accept the return prior to opening the case? It was my understanding that just opening a case is damaging to the seller under eBay's new system. >>
excellent point. this may explain why they are communicating about it with me now.
<< <i>What if the seller just put a pic up and said the cards were ,, well preserved and sharp. Pic looked Nm-Mt to Mint but when in hand they were Ex. Would you return them if he never said they were Nm-Mt but they looked like it in the scan? >>
no, actually the declaration of condition never really mattered to me because my eyes can generally tell, with a GOOD scan mind you, what is really there.
a seller who provides clean quality scans is usually going to win that battle.
but, within a description which often declares such things as NO CREASES, well that one is a no-brainer.
so are backs with gum or wax stains or writing or gouge marks or etc., etc., gone undisclosed.
you can't hide that stuff and you can't deny it. you can "forget" to mention it, maybe "overlook" it.
people screw up. **it happens.....but, i'm spending good money to own nice cards. it's no secret.
wouldn't you do the same?
If others are not willing to take the risk on many of these items due to poor scans and so forth and you end up winning them at greatly reduced selling prices it appears to me you are only looking for upside and no downside. It is really not a risk to you because your plan is to return it if you are not instantly in a profit.
If you get a card advertised as sharp corners and great condition and it grades a PSA 9 or PSA 10 do you send the seller some remuneration for your large profit at their expense?
I am of the mind set that unless there is blatant misrepresentation that the buyer took the chance and now owns it.
There may be many examples in your situation that warrant a return. In over 1000+ EBAY transaction in the past two years I have only asked for a refund or a reduced selling price once and in another transaction mentioned to a seller that the card was creased and he volunteered to send me more cards at his expense. Many cards have come over graded or slightly damaged and I was not thrilled with them. The way I look at it is hopefully more times then not I get a card that is really nice at a good price and it more then makes up for the dogs.
I have never once had any problems with cards I have sold because they are well represented and packed excellently so I have no experience from the selling side in an event like this.
I think the question you must ask yourself is how would you respond if a similar situation was done to you on a card or cards you sold.