The biggest ebay scumbag on Christmas ever.

JHS5120 · December 25, 2010 10:50AM

At first I thought this guy was just an idiot for posting his cards in such a stupid way but now I realize that he is scamming everyone.

Listings

I have to admit that I was planning on bidding (and winning) every single one of these cards until I looked at the Hull.

All of the certs matched up and I was able to find the certs in prior sales on VCP an noticed the centering on the Hull.
The first photo is the one provided in the auction and the other is via VCP, notice the centering towards the bottom.

twiley · December 25, 2010 10:53AM

Look at the bar code on the flips. They are both very different.

The one on the left is a fake IMO.

Edit Add:

The Nolan Ryan PSA 9 rc he is selling looks like another fake as well. The centering on the card is very bad IMO. Card looks to O/C to be a 9.

Link

I would guess all his auctions are fakes... Looks like this seller is gonna take the money and try to run...

JHS5120 · December 25, 2010 11:00AM

Actually if you notice the Ryan cert compared to the same cert on VCP the label is competely different except for the number. This is a $20,000 interstate scam. Maybe someone should report this.

jeffcbay · December 25, 2010 11:07AM

From scumbag's listing:

I AM NEW TO EBAY. PLEASE IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WITH YOUR PURCHASE
PLEASE CONTACT ME FIRST BEFORE GOING THROUGH EBAY OR PAYPAL.
I WANT TO ACHIEVE RETURN CUSTOMERS THAT ARE 100% SATISFIED. THANKS.

Yeah, because he doesn't want his scamming to be found out by the powers that be.

Someone needs to nail this guy. The spacing is all off on the two flips of the Hull. Aside from the card itself being different.

twiley · December 25, 2010 11:09AM

Seller location is supposedly Tempe , AZ. I used to live in Tempe. I met a lot of shady characters while I lived there. I couldn't wait to move out of there which I did.

jeffcbay · December 25, 2010 11:12AM

Can anyone find another scan of that Gretzky he's selling, for comparison?

jwilson6204 · December 25, 2010 12:28PM

Hi. I've been reading the boards for awhile now, but this is my first post. It's threads such as this that make this board so valuable. I noticed the Ryan PSA 9 just went for $3.5K. I never would have considered researching previous sales of the same card before this post. Guess I need to upgrade my VCP subscription from Silver to the highest so I can do the same. I read somewhere where someone said their card knowledge increased ten-fold from reading the boards for few months. Threads such as this one, the Craigslist Aaron, and the Waverly post, for example, help collectors make much more knowledgeable buying decisions. thanks and I'll be posting again more often.

JHS5120 · December 25, 2010 12:44PM

Hey jwilson,
Welcome to the boards and happy holidays! I'm glad you found this information helpful and I hope that someone read this post and decided not to bid on these cards. Honestly, I have no idea what steps to take after uncovering the scammer. He took a total of over $19,000 tonight worth of fake cards (assuming all were fake and everyone decided to pay) this is a huge scam and worthy of a prison sentence if he had prior knowledge of the cards being fake, I sent him an email and one to ebay and I honestly won't pursue this any further. If anyone has any suggestions though I would be open to hearing opinions.
Jason

bking · December 25, 2010 1:08PM

<< Hey jwilson,
Welcome to the boards and happy holidays! I'm glad you found this information helpful and I hope that someone read this post and decided not to bid on these cards. Honestly, I have no idea what steps to take after uncovering the scammer. He took a total of over $19,000 tonight worth of fake cards (assuming all were fake and everyone decided to pay) this is a huge scam and worthy of a prison sentence if he had prior knowledge of the cards being fake, I sent him an email and one to ebay and I honestly won't pursue this any further. If anyone has any suggestions though I would be open to hearing opinions.
Jason >>

Personally, I think sending the scammer an email is a mistake. With documentation this clear, it should be reported to EBay and to the Tempe PD, IMO. EBay will probably expect you to "ask the seller", but giving him a heads-up that he's busted is just giving him time to wiggle free.

JHS5120 · December 25, 2010 1:11PM

<< 

<< Hey jwilson,
Welcome to the boards and happy holidays! I'm glad you found this information helpful and I hope that someone read this post and decided not to bid on these cards. Honestly, I have no idea what steps to take after uncovering the scammer. He took a total of over $19,000 tonight worth of fake cards (assuming all were fake and everyone decided to pay) this is a huge scam and worthy of a prison sentence if he had prior knowledge of the cards being fake, I sent him an email and one to ebay and I honestly won't pursue this any further. If anyone has any suggestions though I would be open to hearing opinions.
Jason >>

Personally, I think sending the scammer an email is a mistake. With documentation this clear, it should be reported to EBay and to the Tempe PD, IMO. EBay will probably expect you to "ask the seller", but giving him a heads-up that he's busted is just giving him time to wiggle free. >>

I agree, I wasn't accussing him of anything, I was just telling him how curious the cards were. I might look up the phone number for the Tempe PD tomorrow

storm888 · December 25, 2010 1:18PM

tempe popo

bobbyw8469 · December 25, 2010 1:22PM

I like how he says USA and Canada are the only two states he will send cards to. His English is soooo bad, it is like that other scammer who was emailing me yesterday. What is it about Christmas and scammers to seem to go hand in hand???? I hope the buyers are all happy with their fake cards!

twiley · December 25, 2010 1:28PM

Sold over $20,000 within 7 days if you include the 1961 Fleer Wilt Chamberlain PSA 7.5 sold on the 17th and the 1959 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 8 he sold on the 20th.

Link

bobbyw8469 · December 25, 2010 1:30PM

I emailed the winning bidder of the Chamberlain card.........does everyone think all his cards are bad, because that 1959 Mantle looks really good to me....

twiley · December 25, 2010 1:38PM

1959 mantle does look good but who knows what has transpired. The seller hasn't received FB on the mantle yet

Link

The Ryan to me is very suspect. Just look at the centering.

That card in that holder really doesn't look like a 9 to me. The pic really tries to hide the centering too. Look at the left border and then the right border on the pic. The card could be real but it looks to much OC to be a 9.

bobbyw8469 · December 25, 2010 1:42PM

I agree....the Ryan is bad.....the Hull with the fake flip looks really bad ONCE you see what the original flip looks like. That is what is scary. The winning bidder will think he/she has a liquid card instead of a fake, and what is to prevent this card from showing up for sale at the 2011 National?

Muggyman · December 25, 2010 1:45PM

And, why in the world would anyone list/sell a 1959 Mantle PSA 8 for a 1 day auction?
1959 Mantle PSA 8

JHS5120 · December 25, 2010 1:46PM

The Nolan Ryan Rookie is the most obvious one. Here is the original pulled off of VCP (Memory Lane 4/5/09) Notice the centerin and mor importantly notice the way Jerry Koosman/Nolan Ryan is spelled in the original and fake

bobbyw8469 · December 25, 2010 1:47PM

True....doesn't pass the smell taste.

Muggyman · December 25, 2010 1:51PM

Dear proserving2010,

I would be very worried if you follow through with your fake Gretzky and Ryan, and other auctions.

The FBI has been notified and following all of your transactions, I am just a nice guy telling you this before you are arrested on a number of federal felonies.

Take this note for what it is worth and don't say I did not tell you so...

- muggyman

JHS5120 · December 25, 2010 2:02PM

The Orr is bad too, the centering id completely off top/bottom and the bar code is not even close to the one on the orignal.

So far confirmed fakes:
1966 Bobby Orr - $7750.00
1968 Nolan Ryan - $3750.00
1958 Bobby Hull - $3100.00

The mantle looks good but I do not believe he owns the cards, all of his photos seems to be taken by a camera/phone at the same angle while the Mantle is a high quality scan cropped well.

I won't assume anything about the Chamberlain or the Gretzky only because I can't find their prior sales.

jfkheat · December 25, 2010 2:06PM

The same person was high bidder on the 4 cards that ended on Christmas day.
James

brian26 · December 25, 2010 2:58PM

Can someone clarify what he's doing here? Am I correct to think he's using a legit PSA holder, putting a bad version of the card inside, and creating his own flip using a fake bar code and only referencing the ID# from the previous VCP auctions?

And then he glues the case together and takes a bad camera phone shot?

Geez, if people are able to do this, I'm not sure I'd ever buy another slabbed card again.

CrazyMind2017 · December 25, 2010 2:58PM

<< 1959 mantle does look good but who knows what has transpired. The seller hasn't received FB on the mantle yet >>

Even the worst crooks usually have inventory that isn't 100% fake.

Looks like most of the cards might be authentic but not anywhere close to the grades being claimed.

Sean1125 · December 25, 2010 3:43PM

I happen to know who that is.... He scammed me locally with some nice patches and whatnot... He also stole about 5k in cards from me.

He is notorious for fake patches and psa cards

He also constantly sells cards locally I see adds popping up on craigslist

Blacklabelsociety · December 25, 2010 3:44PM

I never heard of AGS grading. Is that a reputable company, or another one of those basement outlets?

TNP777 · December 25, 2010 4:01PM

<< I happen to know who that is.... He scammed me locally with some nice patches and whatnot... He also stole about 5k in cards from me.

He is notorious for fake patches and psa cards

He also constantly sells cards locally I see adds popping up on craigslist >>

are his initials KB?

vladguerrero · December 26, 2010 12:04AM

<< I happen to know who that is.... He scammed me locally with some nice patches and whatnot... He also stole about 5k in cards from me.

He is notorious for fake patches and psa cards

He also constantly sells cards locally I see adds popping up on craigslist >>

File a police report and add this fuel to the fire.

vladguerrero · December 26, 2010 12:08AM

He left feedback for the Wilt after he received feedback, who wants to email that buyer

SportsCardCollector · December 26, 2010 12:43AM

<< Geez, if people are able to do this, I'm not sure I'd ever buy another slabbed card again. >>

<< File a police report and add this fuel to the fire. >>

If I was Joe Orlando, I'd have my corporate attorneys and the police all over this guy in a heartbeat. This is the type of thing that will bring an end to this hobby and take Joe's business along with it.

bobbyw8469 · December 26, 2010 12:58AM

Somebody besides me should....I shot him an email, but if he started getting them from different people, he might take notice?

bobbyw8469 · December 26, 2010 1:00AM

<< If I was Joe Orlando, I'd have my corporate attorneys and the police all over this guy in a heartbeat. This is the type of thing that will bring an end to this hobby and take Joe's business along with it. >>

I concur wholeheartedly!!! I am totally amazed that Joe Orlando and PSA don't take a more active role in protecting his trademark. It seems as though the consumers (us fellow boardmembers) are the main ones policing all these fakes......

ArchStanton · December 26, 2010 1:05AM

This kind of stuff turns PSA's reputation to mud and drags down the value of your PSA cards.

swartz1 · December 26, 2010 1:09AM

<< I happen to know who that is.... He scammed me locally with some nice patches and whatnot... He also stole about 5k in cards from me.

He is notorious for fake patches and psa cards

He also constantly sells cards locally I see adds popping up on craigslist >>

Did he scam you with fake auto's?

leathtech · December 26, 2010 1:18AM

<< 

<< Geez, if people are able to do this, I'm not sure I'd ever buy another slabbed card again. >>

<< File a police report and add this fuel to the fire. >>

If I was Joe Orlando, I'd have my corporate attorneys and the police all over this guy in a heartbeat. This is the type of thing that will bring an end to this hobby and take Joe's business along with it. >>

I agree PSA needs to come down hard on people like this... it would be nice for Joe O to post on the boards and let us know what PSA is doing to protect the company and collectors.

Toro · December 26, 2010 1:38AM

Can you guys post your starting lineups for suspense purposes? Wrong Post.....

On this topic, I dont understand why someone would give thousands of dollars to a low feedback seller AND I dont undestand why PSA isn't doing anything about these......I'd use the full extent of the law to pursue these criminals....lastly, I'm getting more worried about the slab PSA has....it seems one may have to get the PSA card graded to sure authenticty.............

Sean1125 · December 26, 2010 3:56AM

<< 

<< I happen to know who that is.... He scammed me locally with some nice patches and whatnot... He also stole about 5k in cards from me.

He is notorious for fake patches and psa cards

He also constantly sells cards locally I see adds popping up on craigslist >>

Did he scam you with fake auto's? >>

No... It was legit autos but fake patches, like a bunch of cards with sick patches... Basically the way I found out was a card shop owner in the area saw my ebay listings and told me the cards were bought at his shop and the patches replaced.

storm888 · December 26, 2010 4:29AM

PSA has a built-in policing capability in this board. To mitigate
the damages being caused, PSA merely needs to ACT on the
info that their FREE policing force provides.

VeRO takedowns are an EASY process for companies like PSA
to facilitate. PSA would get nothing but cooperation from venues
like EBAY and CL, but PSA has to ask for that cooperation.

ANY alteration of a PSA slab/flip constitutes infringement and is
actionable; first under VeRO, then via civil action and/or criminal
complaint.

This is NOT a new problem. The tools to fix it have long been available.

NickM · December 26, 2010 5:05AM

These new fake flips are getting closer to the look of real PSA flips. The crooks are also now spreading out into more high-dollar cards. Based on what I've seen from some closeup pictures, at least some of the new generation of fakes are definitely not altered PSA holders, but instead are faked holders (the PSA logo in the bottom right was done wrong on them).

This sort of counterfeiting is a huge problem in other industries, and I don't know how effective even VERO will be against it.

Nick

Muggyman · December 26, 2010 5:30AM

As of now, I would say that PSA's "pack" encapsulation cases seem tamper proof. It is indeed troubling to read about all these fake cards in PSA holders.

storm888 · December 26, 2010 6:17AM

<< .... This sort of counterfeiting is a huge problem in other industries, and I don't know how effective even VERO will be against it.

Nick >>

/////////////////////////////////////

On EBAY, VeRO is 100% "effective" in removing "suspect" merch, if
the potentially infinged party complies with the simple process.

LOTS of dolphins get caught in the VeRO tuna nets, but the "appeals
process" will free most dolphins IF the VeRO member acts in good faith.
Almost NO tunas get away, once the VeRO net snags them.

VeRO is NOT designed to "stop" counterfeiting. It is meant to "discourage"
counterfeiting to the point that most criminals find it not worth the trouble/risk.

...................

It is NO shame at all to be infringed; it IS shameful not to fight back.

There is NO loss of face or reputation for the victim; that loss comes
ONLY when the victim fails to engage the infringer.

tonygug · December 26, 2010 8:40AM

All of this talk of counterfit or inaccurate PSA slabbed cards makes me very uneasy. I love collecting PSA 10s and then listing them on the PSA set registry. Should I be worried that some of my buys through ebay might not be "real" cards? One specific buy I had this past summer stands out to me. I was looking for a 98 manning sp psa 10 for quite some time and then 1 seller had 2 for sale at the same time. That alone was fairly odd considering that card is hard to find for sale because of a pop 70. The 2nd odd thing was there was no pictures for either cards. I obviously was concerned about a possible scam so I emailed the seller. The seller ended up giving me his phone # and we talked on the phone. He said he didnt have a good scanner (3rd odd thing) so he couldnt provide pics. Well after a few more calls I felt comfortable enough to do a sale with the guy. I ended up buying the card for only $750 away from ebay. That is about half what that card goes for on ebay normally. The other one ended up selling for $1500 the next week on ebay. You know the saying "if it's to good to be true"...well how will I ever know if I got scammed or if I am now just paranoid about any good deals I get?

JHS5120 · December 26, 2010 8:51AM

<< All of this talk of counterfit or inaccurate PSA slabbed cards makes me very uneasy. I love collecting PSA 10s and then listing them on the PSA set registry. Should I be worried that some of my buys through ebay might not be "real" cards? One specific buy I had this past summer stands out to me. I was looking for a 98 manning sp psa 10 for quite some time and then 1 seller had 2 for sale at the same time. That alone was fairly odd considering that card is hard to find for sale because of a pop 70. The 2nd odd thing was there was no pictures for either cards. I obviously was concerned about a possible scam so I emailed the seller. The seller ended up giving me his phone # and we talked on the phone. He said he didnt have a good scanner (3rd odd thing) so he couldnt provide pics. Well after a few more calls I felt comfortable enough to do a sale with the guy. I ended up buying the card for only $750 away from ebay. That is about half what that card goes for on ebay normally. The other one ended up selling for $1500 the next week on ebay. You know the saying "if it's to good to be true"...well how will I ever know if I got scammed or if I am now just paranoid about any good deals I get? >>

Well, did you receive the card? I guarantee that all of these conterfeit slabs can be easily noticed if the card is in hand. If the slab looks fine then I am sure it is.
Jason

hammered · December 26, 2010 8:51AM

<< All of this talk of counterfit or inaccurate PSA slabbed cards makes me very uneasy. I love collecting PSA 10s and then listing them on the PSA set registry. Should I be worried that some of my buys through ebay might not be "real" cards? One specific buy I had this past summer stands out to me. I was looking for a 98 manning sp psa 10 for quite some time and then 1 seller had 2 for sale at the same time. That alone was fairly odd considering that card is hard to find for sale because of a pop 70. The 2nd odd thing was there was no pictures for either cards. I obviously was concerned about a possible scam so I emailed the seller. The seller ended up giving me his phone # and we talked on the phone. He said he didnt have a good scanner (3rd odd thing) so he couldnt provide pics. Well after a few more calls I felt comfortable enough to do a sale with the guy. I ended up buying the card for only $750 away from ebay. That is about half what that card goes for on ebay normally. The other one ended up selling for $1500 the next week on ebay. You know the saying "if it's to good to be true"...well how will I ever know if I got scammed or if I am now just paranoid about any good deals I get? >>

Post your manning here and get some input

storm888 · December 26, 2010 8:57AM

<< ......Should I be worried that some of my buys through ebay might not be "real" cards? .......well how will I ever know if I got scammed or if I am now just paranoid about any good deals I get? >>

////////////////////////////

Know your seller.

Know your cards.

Know what a tampered slab looks like.

Know what a counterfeit flip looks like.

Pay with a credit card.

When in doubt, send your card back to PSA or show
it to PSA at a card show.

tonygug · December 26, 2010 11:06AM

It would be great to always know your seller, cards, cases, etc. and most of the time I know the seller. But you cant know everyone. And honestly 99.9% of the time im sure buying psa cards are fine, but the fact that people can scam others with cracked psa slabs is disturbing. In my particular case with my Manning, im probably just being paranoid because of how I acquired the card and all this talk of cracked slabs but it would be nice to know for sure. The card is numbered 1270/2000 so Im sure I can check with psa to make sure that card is supposed to be in that case.
I'd upload a scan of the card if I knew how to add pics to this post...

WinPitcher · December 26, 2010 11:13AM

Tony

To post pics here you need a host. Mosy use Photobucket.

Simply upload the pic there and copy the url. Once that is done

simply paste it in the text box here.

PSA hosts also but the file can't be larger than 50kb.

tonygug · December 26, 2010 11:24AM

Text

twiley · December 26, 2010 11:33AM

Looks ok to me.

NickM · December 26, 2010 3:17PM

Once the crooks learn how to get the font and spacing right and copy the bar code that goes with the cert they're faking, there's not much left to catch using VERO.

The other discrepancies will be small enough that a bad picture won't make them obvious.

Nick

<< 

<< .... This sort of counterfeiting is a huge problem in other industries, and I don't know how effective even VERO will be against it.

Nick >>

/////////////////////////////////////

On EBAY, VeRO is 100% "effective" in removing "suspect" merch, if
the potentially infinged party complies with the simple process.

LOTS of dolphins get caught in the VeRO tuna nets, but the "appeals
process" will free most dolphins IF the VeRO member acts in good faith.
Almost NO tunas get away, once the VeRO net snags them.

VeRO is NOT designed to "stop" counterfeiting. It is meant to "discourage"
counterfeiting to the point that most criminals find it not worth the trouble/risk.

...................

It is NO shame at all to be infringed; it IS shameful not to fight back.

There is NO loss of face or reputation for the victim; that loss comes
ONLY when the victim fails to engage the infringer. >>

[edited for formatting]

MULLINS5 · December 26, 2010 3:31PM

If these buyers pay with paypal then paypal loses $ not the customer, right?

The biggest ebay scumbag on Christmas ever.

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