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United States: proof copper-nickel 3-cent piece, Liberty head type, 1888

lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
United States: proof copper-nickel 3-cent piece, Liberty head type, 1888







image



image







Obverse: Liberty head left, wearing coronet.



Reverse: Roman numeral III within olive wreath.



Philadelphia mint; 4,582 proofs struck. PCGS PR65 CAM, cert. #26166713. Ex-Pinnacle Rarities, Inc, 11/12/2015.



I already had a nice enough PCGS PR64 nickel 3-cent piece in my collection, but in the process of selling some other things, I found I had enough money to purchase this one as an upgrade, so I could then sell the previous coin and recoup some of the money. Pinnacle Rarities' inventory and service had impressed me more than a decade before when they sent me a very nice proof Seated half on approval. But I ended up not buying that coin- it was lovely but was (and still would be) in a league I really had no business playing in on my budget. So I was happy to finally consummate a (smaller) deal with Pinnacle all this time later.



I loved the look of this coin not only for its Cameo contrast but the pastel toning as well. There is a tiny hairline to the left of the word "OF" at twelve o'clock on the obverse, but this must have been exaggerated a bit by the lighting in the photos. In hand, it is much more subtle and I couldn't really even see it until I had the coin under a 7x loupe. The existing photographs were made through the plastic slab. Perhaps one day I will submit this for reimaging and reholdering through the PCGS TrueView service.



Miscellaneous links:

Larger image

PCGS cert verification page

PCGS Coinfacts page

PCGS priceguide trends

Numismedia priceguide trends (no CAM/DCAM prices)



Wikipedia links:

Three-cent piece (United States coin)









When posted here, this coin was part of my "Eclectic Box of 20" collection.






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Comments

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    TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    I went with 64 CAM.

    Nice coin
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    lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This coin was the subject of a "GTG" (Guess the Grade) poll when initially posted, which will explain some of the commentary below, now that I've deleted the poll above and edited this thread to link it up with the rest of my collection.



    The votes (excluding my own "neutral/results only" vote) were tallied as follows:



    PR62 CAM: 3 votes (4.29%)

    PR63: 3 votes (4.29%)

    PR63 CAM: 17 votes (24.29%)- the majority answer

    PR63 DCAM: 4 votes (5.71%)

    PR64: 6 votes (8.57%)

    PR64 CAM: 14 votes (20.00%)

    PR64 DCAM: 3 votes (4.29%)

    PR65 CAM: 8 votes (11.43%)- the "correct" answer

    PR65 DCAM: 3 votes (4.29%)

    PR66 CAM: 5 votes (7.14%)

    PR66 DCAM: 1 vote (1.43%)

    PR67 CAM: 2 votes (2.86%)


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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,487 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I graded it PR-63, Cameo. The fields have some cloudiness, and there are some marks on the obverse that I would not like to see on a piece that grades higher. Getting the cameo designation is always a throw of the dice. I've seen coins with what I perceived as a lot of device / field contrast that didn't get it while I've seen other coins that seemed to have very little of those characteristics won the "cameo lottery."
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What is that to the obverse left of the OF?

    Frank

    BHNC #203

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I gave it a 65CAM, but might be a 64...

    Extremely nice looking coin! image
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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,528 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ill go with a proof but thats it. im not good with these things
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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,861 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's beautiful
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    LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Treashunt

    What is that to the obverse left of the OF?







    If that's a scratch it's the kiss of death. I'm afraid.



    image

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    lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: LindeDad

    Originally posted by: Treashunt

    What is that to the obverse left of the OF?







    If that's a scratch it's the kiss of death. I'm afraid.



    image





    FWIW, the coin is in PCGS plastic, and was photographed through that plastic, as you might have noticed. So here's hoping that most of that is just on the plastic.



    Perhaps that accounts a little for some of the cloudy/hazy appearance as well. Still, I thought the coin attractive.



    I'll post the PCGS grade in a little while.




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    dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know if it's the photography, but the detail is rather flat on the obv, and the frost looks strange on the devices. Does appear to be a cam proof, though, and the strike does seem better on the rev. I'd guess a PR63CAM, but it may look a lot different in hand.
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    lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dpoole- I was waiting for you to weigh in. image



    I'll probably post the slab pix in the wee hours, after midnight Eastern, when it slows down at work.



    I do think this might be one I'll want to submit for Trueview and reholdering later, now that I've accumulated a few PCGS pieces without Trueview images.



    (Come to think of it, that happens to be the case with all of the US coins in my Box of 20.)

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    Musky1011Musky1011 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭✭
    Pr64 here
    Pilgrim Clock and Gift Shop.. Expert clock repair since 1844

    Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA

    http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistr...dset.aspx?s=68269&ac=1">Musky 1861 Mint Set
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    lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Time for the reveal.



    image





    The coin is coming from Pinnacle Rarities. This will be the first time I've been a customer of theirs, though they did send me a $3K-ish coin on approval about twelve years ago. (I was flattered by the trust implied in that, though in the end I decided I had no business shopping in that price tier and used the money to start my little antique mall operation instead.)



    As to the mark to the left of "OF" on the obverse, one can only hope that it is on the plastic, else it would be difficult to imagine PCGS giving this coin the 65 grade with such a mark present. I'll let you know. (To be embarrassingly candid, I overlooked it, as unbelievable as that seems in retrospect, because I must have been dazzled by the toning and cameo contrast on the coin.)

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow.... great grade/coin LordM.... from the pictures, I was thinking 63...maybe 64.

    However, as we know, pictures just do not do a coin justice... Congratulations, Cheers, RickO
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    LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: lordmarcovan

    Originally posted by: LindeDad

    Originally posted by: Treashunt

    What is that to the obverse left of the OF?







    If that's a scratch it's the kiss of death. I'm afraid.



    image





    FWIW, the coin is in PCGS plastic, and was photographed through that plastic, as you might have noticed. So here's hoping that most of that is just on the plastic.



    Perhaps that accounts a little for some of the cloudy/hazy appearance as well. Still, I thought the coin attractive.



    I'll post the PCGS grade in a little while.







    Glad to see it wasn't a scratch just a toning break that they grade around.

    imageimage



    image

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    ElKevvoElKevvo Posts: 4,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Really nice. I especially like the subtle colors in the coin. A very good upgrade from your previous one (I did see your listing!). Thanks for posting.



    K
    ANA LM
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    lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: LindeDad



    Glad to see it wasn't a scratch just a toning break that they grade around.

    imageimage



    image





    I honestly don't know what it is, but whatever it is, it apparently didn't concern the PCGS graders as much as it did us who only have the photos to go by.



    I'll be sure to put a loupe to it when the coin is in hand.



    ElKevvo- thanks. Those subtle pastel colors were a big selling point for me.



    And thanks, everybody else, for the extra sets of eyes.

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    lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is the coin it upgraded.



    Which is a perfectly nice coin. I'd have been content with it, but figured since I temporarily had enough to buy the new one, I could do that and then sell this one to recoup some of what I spent on the upgrade.



    image



    image

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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I debated between 65/66 CAM....went with the lower # at 65Cam. It's a nice coin with an exceptional obverse CAM on the face, which is the most important part. Has nice eye appeal imo. "Cloudy" proofs are sometime a marker of extreme originality. I learned that lesson from Jay Miller at the 1988 ANA show. When grading Auction '88 there was a nice run of original seated quarter proofs in one of the sessions. I graded them all 63/64 or at best 65 due to cloudiness in the fields. Jay told me I was way off base and that they were bordering on superb. This was the way he and most other leading dealers wanted them to look like. He was right. They basically all fetched 65/66 money. These days...for the most part, if a 19th century silver proof is blast white with "headlight" mirrors it is perceived as superior to completely original and untouched specimens. A lot of "retraining" has gone on in the past 25 years.



    I'm surprised that 1888 3cn is still so original. Hard to believe no moron got their hands on it over the years and dipped it out in hopes of a PR66 grade. Most proof 3c nickels these days all have that same "sanitized" look with a uniform, untoned appearance that fails to excite. This coin is completely unlike what you normally see...maybe part of a set that toned in an album over the decades. It's got some good crust and "attitude." And that peripheral cloudiness is not a distraction to me. Normally, I don't like PF64-66 3c nickels because they are so common and unexciting. But, I would buy any 64 or better coin with this kind of look.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    winkywinky Posts: 1,671
    I was a little off but I don't collect those.
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    MFHMFH Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: TopographicOceans
    I went with 64 CAM.
    Nice coin


    Rob, I went 64 CAM myself.

    Mike Hayes
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !

    New Barber Purchases
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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LordM, what did I win? image
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    kazkaz Posts: 9,068 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I guessed 64cam. I think it's beautiful, with gold rims and pastel tones in the center. Glad it has a good home!
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    lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: asheland

    LordM, what did I win? image




    You won the Nekkid Lady Spoon. image

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, the mail lady just handed me the package from Pinnacle Rarities. She's heeere! (The coin, I mean. Not the mail lady- she's gone now.)



    In hand, that mark at 12:00 to the left of "OF" is present, and on the coin rather than the plastic, but it's a totally subtle micro-hairline that I had to squint at through a 7x loupe to even see. The lighting in the photos must have exaggerated it and it doesn't bother me at all.



    I can now see the difference the Cameo designation makes when comparing this to the PR64 1880 I just sold and shipped off. While the mirrors on these coins naturally aren't as deep as you'd see on a modern proof, this one definitely has the contrast and is worthy of the CAM. I'm happy with it and believe it was worth chipping in a little more money for to get the upgrade.

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Edited this to link it to my main collection index for the Box of 20, which I've finally been working on updating. That was (and still is, as of this post) woefully out of date and a bit of a mess. I hope to finish my housekeeping on the main thread by the time the weekend's done.



    Deleted the GTG poll but reposted those statistics in my second post.



    I think it looks even better now with the darker "shadowbox" background in the new pictures. (Thanks to Smeagle1795 for helping with that, as I lack the software and skills.)

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    lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A recent proof Seated dime discussion got me to thinking about this coin and wanting to go back and reread what people had posted about it.



    Since I'm here, I might as well send 'er back up into the sunlight again, briefly.



    Bump.








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    rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I already saw the answer, but I would not have gone lower than PR65. The mirrors are deep and the pastel toning gives it Gem eye appeal. For those of you bemoaning a little bit of haze, look through the archives at Barber and Seated coins graded PR68. Many of them have some of this haze over brilliant coloration. They are the top-shelf, original coins that really haven't been touched since they were minted. FWIW, cameo proofs with deep mirrors are a real find on anything dated 1888. Proof coinage sank to new levels of crap during 1886-1889 after a run of well-made proofs from 1879-1885.

    I'm with roadrunner's assessment on the blast-white proofs. It's too bad they got ruined by someone, and I don't give a hoot what they grade. I'm slowly but surely ridding my collection of them as I acquire coins that look like Lord Marcovan's. I even bought some of the McClure proofs that have ugly toning over pristine, original mirrors- and I love them.


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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sorry, I am not a fan of hazy, more accurately called "cloudy," Proofs. Yes, it can be part of an original surface Proof, but it doesn't have to be. You don't have put up with haze if you don't like it. Coins can be found without it. If you are going to pay high prices for high grades, why buy something you don't like? On a modern Proof, haze is a preservation and sales killer.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    ChrisRxChrisRx Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭

    I like it.

    image

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