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Secure Plus a Requirement for Pre 1955 World Coins
mnemtsas2
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PCGS are going to require secure plus grading for pre 1955 world coins as of November 15. Your thoughts? Mine is that this is a way of both countering counterfeits and at the same time reducing their very long queue on world coins and maintaining their revenue. Price for an Economy coin going from $18 to $25 is a fairly hefty price rise and will no doubt stop some submissions.
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Although many of the coins I submit don't fit in to the economy service some of them do, and I can't see a 40% price increase getting paid by me. I'd rather buy more coins with the money. I'm a small fish though, I probably average submitting somewhere between 15-20 coins per year.
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<< <i>From $18 to $25 is not much >>
That's 38%, it's too much of an increase for me. No one is giving me a 38% pay raise this year.
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I think it's more likely that this is an experiment. If world coin submissions don't drop much in response to the new policy, US coins will be next.
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Talk about dain bramaged. NGC's gotta be loving this move by PCGS. It just ensures NGC an even greater portion of the market for certifying non-U.S. coins.
Has there been any kind of press release as to why Secure Plus is required? What's the point for world coins as opposed to U.S., or as MrEureka speculates, they want to see how it goes over on a test market (gotta love being viewed as a "test market" by any company) rather than slaughtering their cash cow right off the bat?
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<< <i>I aven't got time to read the fine print right now >>
So wybrit, I realize Brits sometimes drop the H when speaking, but are they now dropping them when writing as well?
I don't get how a 1955 farthing escapes the Secure Plus requirement, but the equally common 1937-1954 farthings do not?
I realize Brits sometimes drop the H when speaking, but are they now dropping them when writing as well?
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I would hope this idea is not yet completely worked out and there is room for rethought as I am in complete agreement with the opinions that this is not only a big raise but that it will not solve turnaround times either. Just a hunch though....
Well, just Love coins, period.
IMHO, in the "world" really care about US based TPG companies in general anyway... besides just the US peeps. maybe. It just makes PCGS less of a player for world. NGC could probably make more inroads due to the policy change....
<< <i>NGC could probably make more inroads due to the policy change.... >>
<< <i>Your thoughts? Mine is that this is a way of both countering counterfeits and at the same time reducing their very long queue on world coins and maintaining their revenue. Price for an Economy coin going from $18 to $25 is a fairly hefty price rise and will no doubt stop some submissions. >>
Yes, I think it probably makes sense from where they're sitting. But it's certainly gonna cause the low-budget Darkside types like yours truly to reconsider their submissions.
And I just re-upped my Platinum membership. Guess I'd better get a submission in soon.
If NGC would offer a photography option comparable to TrueView (with GOOD pictures of the coin BEFORE slabbing it), I'd probably reconsider my planned move over to PCGS for my Darkside submissions. After all, I already use NGC for my ancients. But NGC's cheaper "Internet Imaged" ($3/coin) photography is useless, and not even worth that low price.
<< <i>< NGC could probably make more inroads due to the policy change.... >> >>
<< <i>If NGC would offer a photography option comparable to TrueView (with GOOD pictures of the coin BEFORE slabbing it), I'd probably reconsider my planned move over to PCGS for my Darkside submissions. >>
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<< <i>The 1955 date is quite arbitrary - British coinage is pretty much "modern" starting around 1927 or 1937, depending on how you look at it. >>
I collect Canadian coins and I'd say the modern era there began in 1937 with George VI.
All the coins (except the dollar) had the reverses updated.
Isn't 1955 the cutoff date for the chinese where they don't care about counterfeits of anything older,
but care if its beyond this date? Correct me if i have the date wrong.
Krueger
For U.S. philippines I have received more resonable grades submitting as world coins then as a U.S. coins.
But that is my opinion. Maybe their world coin grading consultants are more familiar with this series.
Krueger
Looks like I had better round up the last few items so I can get my last submission in for 2011 as this bit of stupidity may wind up being long term.
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<< <i>If it weeds out common junk like this from being certified, great. >>
Unless PCGS is currently losing money grading coins, I would think they would love grading common junk like that. What, it takes 2 seconds to determine that coin has damage? Will raising the price mean PCGS will grade fewer coins and make less money? Only time will tell. Or perhaps PCGS just wants to get out of the World coin grading business and this is a way of doing it without coming straight out and cancelling the service.
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Well, just Love coins, period.
A friendly suggestion might be to see this go in a slightly different direction- How about a plan to encourage the World Registry?
The idea would be to offer a discount to CU members and/or those that start a registry set- this would be limited to 20th century sets -or those that have a slight overlap- like the various French series that were introduced in 1898. Limit this to series such as GB farthings, 1/2d, and 1d and possibly some select others such as the Mexican Peso 1920-1945. I just have my doubts that there will be submissions for these types of coins at 25.00. It makes sense - if the grading fee for select sets with limited values were lower- perhaps 15.00. I would suspect that might spark greater interest and more submissions.
If some hybrid plan was introduced as noted above, maybe part of the plan could include a Secure Plus requirement at 25.00 with an earlier date- perhaps 1901 or an earlier date. At the moment, I am having a problem with what the earlier date might be-
We should try to be part of the solution-
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
As soon as the problem is fully defined (including the undesirable effects) - and I think it just about is, solutions come up next.
Question: where do we go to voice these concerns in a somewhat organized manner?
<< <i>This is a bad business plan and reminiscent of the recent Netflix/Qwikster debacle. To Netflix's credit, they did finally realize the error of their ways. Will PCGS? >>
dont bet on it, for every Netflix there's an HP out there that NEVER learns.
The goal should be to add value- and the added value really begins earlier than 1955 and likely even earlier than 1901
The goal should also be to broaden the appeal of World Coins- the Registry could do that if it had alittle encouragement.
How do we voice concerns?
If more ideas are shared here and we develop a set of ideas as part of an overall plan that seems to have support, the plan might be worthy of presenting as a suggestion
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Looks like a Netflix move on the part of PCGS
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I was thinking 25.00.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
That, and the possibility to try to bring PCGS US and PCGS Paris fees to similar levels.
Besides, ,they can hedge whatever drop in World submissions in the US, by their ever increasing number of World submissions in Paris.
So, I wouldn't be so worried about US coins yet, Andy.
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Personally, I was considering branching out and doing some additional Farthing sets beyond what I already have up and as such had started working on acquiring a few pieces as time and money permits. Now, with the price hike I will have to give thought as to if it would be worth it to continue with the 20th century pieces I have been acquiring through PCGS, or if it would be warranted to go across the street ...
At any rate, I got in my last planned world submission for the year this past week, so I have time to mull over the situation ...
Happy Rock Wrens
You're having delusions of grandeur again. - Susan Ivanova
Well, if you're gonna have delusions, may as well go for the really satisfying ones. - Marcus Cole
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Besides, NGC has some services that PCGS does not provide and which I like very much ... so at least for now a part of my business is already going across the street.
If and when this whole kerfuffle about PCGS' Secure Plus requirement is decided ... at that point I will see what portion of my submissions remains with PCGS and what remains with NGC.
Steve
Happy Rock Wrens
You're having delusions of grandeur again. - Susan Ivanova
Well, if you're gonna have delusions, may as well go for the really satisfying ones. - Marcus Cole
I just don't see the need for secure plus on a canadian dime in AU worth $15 costing $25 to holder.
It's just not right............$18 is actually too much. There should be another lower fee for inexpensive coins under $100 or so.
For now, I would say that it is certainly worth a try as far as raising a big stink with them to see what happens, tho' in the long run I would suspect that the Secure Plus requirement will stay.
Happy Rock Wrens
You're having delusions of grandeur again. - Susan Ivanova
Well, if you're gonna have delusions, may as well go for the really satisfying ones. - Marcus Cole
Is this a permanent move?
Have they felt any slowdown in U.S. submissions?
Did NGC's new soon to be policy of eliminating PCGS from the Registry sets make any difference in all of this? I would think PCGS has more to gain now post that announcement - another reason why they might not want to revert to the way it was.
<< <i>Is this a permanent move? >>
Yeah, unfortunately, it's intended to be a permanent move. But it's their policy, they can change it.
<< <i>Have they felt any slowdown in U.S. submissions? >>
That's hard to tell, but a slowdown is very likely. So far, I haven't seen mass offerings of SP coins on eBay and in Dealer's inventory. We need another 3 months or so to see the end result.
<< <i>Did NGC's new soon to be policy of eliminating PCGS from the Registry sets make any difference in all of this? >>
I think NGC's new policy is well played. They sure know how to capitalize when oppotunity knocks.
I alwasy thought that the "genuine" holder looked a lot better than Vf details: scratched/cleaned. But thats just me...
-Kev
I had about 20 Canadian coins I was thinking of sending in but not anymore.
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In my case I wanted to crossover a few pieces from NGC to PCGS - now I need to crack them out??...unless I'm reading something
wrong....which is something I truly am not comfortable with doing.
Is it affecting submissions - probably not as the completion times are climbing again.
The NGC change will have very minor impact IMHO - except those of us putting high end Registry Sets together.
Edit to add: it has affected what I choose to submit. It's no longer cost effective to certify pretty coins with cat values less than $200 because more than 10% of the value is in the holder.
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