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Topic Title: PCGS Currency assigns grades of PPQ. Should PCGS Coins assign grades of PQ?
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Created On: 11/6/2009 9:29 PM
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 11/6/2009 9:29 PM
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PQType
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I recently started picking up some PCGS PPQ graded currency. I like the fact that they grade some PPQ = Premium Paper Quality

NGC has the star designation, but their website states its just for eye appeal.

So post your opinion..... Pro and Cons.

Do you think PCGS Coins should start assigning grades of PQ on coins of Premium Quality for the grade? (examples F15PQ, XF45PQ, MS63PQ, MS65PQ )

I myself would like to see it and also would like to see a PQ graded coin be given some type of rating above a non PQ graded coin fror the registry sets. Just like a CAM gets a higher rating the a non CAM

Looking forward to your opinions.

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 11/6/2009 10:16 PM
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WTCG
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PMG uses an equivalent designation of "EPQ" that is similar to the "PPQ" designation used by PCGS Currency.

It should be noted that those designations for currency do not denote premium quality. An "EPQ" or "PPQ" designation means that the note which carries the designation is completely original with original, crisp quality paper. Notes that are graded in the uncirculated grades that are without the designation denotes that the note has likely been pressed or is otherwise not totally original. Notes that grade in the uncirculated grades (60-70) should in theory all carry the designation and notes that don't are often difficult to sell and when they do they sell at prices that are back of the Greensheet bid numbers.

Again, an "EPQ" or a "PPQ" designation is not the equivalent of "PQ" for coins.

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 11/6/2009 10:17 PM
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Wolf359
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Gawd no. Things are complicated enough already.

This is an old argument anyway, being debated here before.

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 11/6/2009 10:25 PM
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PQType
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From the PCGS Currency website



<< To distinguish notes that bear all the hallmarks of complete originality and outstanding paper quality for the grade, we will affix a “PPQ” (Premium Paper Quality) designation to the grade (e.g.: “Gem New 65PPQ”). These are notes that bear no visible evidence of restoration and that retain all signs of fully original paper quality, such as paper wave, embossing, and bold ink color and eye appeal, and that also have above average paper for the grade that is free of defects such as tears, pinholes, or other problems. This is not done to penalize those notes that are not fully original, as many are very collectible and highly valuable. Instead, this system is designed to reward those notes, both circulated and New, that possess premium paper quality and complete originality. It should be understood that even though a note may be fully original and free of any restoration, it still might not qualify for the “PPQ” designation. >>



Why not reward coins, both circulated, uncirculated and proof, that show complete originality ex: not dipped, smooth surfaces, less they average nicks, etc. a coin that is borderline to the next higer grade?

I would think this MS64 would fit the PQ designation. And in hand the luster is outstanding



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 11/6/2009 11:17 PM
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Wolf359
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Why does a slab need to say it? I'd pay a premium for that coin if it's as good in hand. Do we really need the plastic to tell us everything?

This is an age-old argument, NGC has it's * for eye appeal, no different here. It's been discussed and debated, and decided, long ago. Everything on a slab's label is a paid opinion. Learn to think
for yourself. Even "original" is an opinion and not always correct.



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 11/7/2009 1:27 AM
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Steve27
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Are you trying to put CAC out of business?


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 11/7/2009 3:50 AM
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golfer72
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The NGC Star is meaningless since its for eye appeal which is completely subjective. PQ would just be adding more sub grades to existing grades which is different than the NGC star.
 11/7/2009 9:33 AM
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mozin
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<< Are you trying to put CAC out of business? >>

CAC is doing a fine job selecting the better coins in holders from both PCGS and NGC.



<< The NGC Star is meaningless since its for eye appeal which is completely subjective. PQ would just be adding more sub grades to existing grades which is different than the NGC star. >>



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 11/7/2009 9:36 AM
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SilverEagles92
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I agree with WTCG, I think you have the definition of PPQ incorrect in your mind.

The designation tells you something that you would not be able to otherwise ascertain since the note is in a holder. Paper quality is a tangible thing, and if they didn't list it, you would have to "crack" the note out of the holder to know for sure.

I'm not sure there's something in coins I can equate it to, perhaps FBL or some other designation? But it does not mean that the note is "PQ" for the grade, just that the paper quality is excellent.

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 11/7/2009 10:38 AM
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aficoinado
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Let's do school grades!!!

Add +/- to the letters and we all know what that means! MS64- will tell you it barely makes the grade but it's better than 63. Same goes for a MS64+ but no extra credit will be accepted!!
 11/7/2009 11:04 AM
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Wolf359
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<< The NGC Star is meaningless since its for eye appeal which is completely subjective. PQ would just be adding more sub grades to existing grades which is different than the NGC star. >>


I agree. But the previous debates over the years on this compared the two.

Who wants to see PCGS add a PQ Designation - Sep 2008

It's time for a PCGS PQ Designation (because NGC has it's star) - From 2004





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 11/7/2009 11:06 AM
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rld14
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PPQ = Premium Paper Quality

Coins aren't made out of paper

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 11/7/2009 10:08 PM
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PQType
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<< Are you trying to put CAC out of business? >>



This would not put CAC out of bussiness...... But it would add to a coins value to have a PCGS PQ grade and a cac sticker.

CAC does not mean PQ, It means it meets CAC grading standards

They could still sticker a PQ graded coin. Either green or gold.

For example all MS65s are not equal there is a range. I had heard that an unwritten grading system between some dealers in already in place using A,B or C

Anyone else heard of this?

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 11/7/2009 10:18 PM
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Wolf359
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Let me guess. It's a "C" coin when you sell to them, and an "A" coin when you buy it. Dealers do things all the time to manipulate the market to their personal advantage. It's wrong, but that's
life. It's why PCGS was established - to reduce the scams and fraud and establish a market wide standard. Believe me, a lot of unscrupulous dealers will go the extra mile to discredit PCGS and return
to the old days.

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 11/8/2009 4:04 AM
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2ndCharter
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WTCG is correct - you're talking apples and oranges here.

"PQ" on coins is merely an opinion whereas "PPQ" and "EPQ" relate to the originality of the paper of a note.
 11/8/2009 4:20 AM
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PerryHall
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<< WTCG is correct - you're talking apples and oranges here.

"PQ" on coins is merely an opinion whereas "PPQ" and "EPQ" relate to the originality of the paper of a note.
>>



....................which is also merely an opinion.
 11/8/2009 4:20 AM
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Justacommeman
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<< The NGC Star is meaningless since its for eye appeal which is completely subjective. PQ would just be adding more sub grades to existing grades which is different than the NGC star. >>



I actually love the * designation

MJ









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 11/8/2009 7:29 AM
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19Lyds
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No.

Not unless they want to start a revolution.

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 11/8/2009 7:32 AM
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ziggy29
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Only if we are determined to not "force" collectors to develop their own opinions of a coin at all.
 11/8/2009 7:46 AM
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QuarterCollecto..
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IMHO sub grades are the future. I would like to see a individual grade breakdown. Different grades for surface, luster, edge, strike. Then an overall grade accounting for the grades. For example, the coin receives a grades of 65.8 for surface, 65.5 for luster, 65 for edge, and 65.9 for strike. The overall grade should be 65.6. TPG baseball cards currently do this. It would put CAC out of business but it would be nice to know how much more PQ your coin is from the assigned grade.
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