Those new pics are a vast improvment. The coins look better now. Still, the highpt coloration changes on the quarter reverse I saw in the seller's photos are still there, but much diminished. There's no gross rub as those earlier photos suggested. But there is at least patina scraped off. That is still visible in the new photo. The rev of the seated dollar shows some heavy toning in the deeply protected areas. And then abrupt changes into the fields suggested something removed a layer of toning at some point. The coins are probably going to come back in the 58-63 range with 61 or 62 probably being the norm. I'd be pretty surprised if any of the 25c, 50c, or $1 came back 64 or better. Best of luck.
Following this thread with interest. Would be nice if you could somehow get some proper pictures. Good luck with the grading and I hope you come out ok. I know I woulnd't have had the balls to pull the trigger.
<< <i>Following this thread with interest. Would be nice if you could somehow get some proper pictures. Good luck with the grading and I hope you come out ok. I know I woulnd't have had the balls to pull the trigger. >>
Yeah I'm at work now but I get off at two and will try and retake photos. Problem i'm having is using my camera ( kodak esay share 10.5mp) is that the auto focus keep bluring and I have to take it under direct light to get clear photos then I'm getting glare in my shots thats covering some of the coin. Any advice with taking photos with my camera maybe? Other wise like I said earlier I'm gonna try to get my father in laws to shot photos for me. As far as grading goes now i'm thinking about sending them all in at once. I just gotta sit down and figure out the values and I want to take pictures first so might be a week.
This has been an interesting thread. Lots of information and opinions about the 1872 proof set and whether or not to consider purchasing same raw.
Michiganboy had interest in the set and pursued it. In doing so he was able to look at the proof set in hand and view the individual coins with his own eyes. In addition to his own knowledge and experience, through this thread he also has obtained input from numerous others. He agreed upon a price with the seller and bought the proof set. He paid for the set in part with cash and in part with bullion and other coins. It may be that his cost basis in the bullion is face value (pulling same from pocket change 40-50 years ago) or zero (inherited same from his parents or was given same as a gift by his grandparents), or at a level representing the cost of same purchased when silver was $5.00 per ounce, or at a level representing the cost of same purchased when silver was at $45.00 ounce last year. It may be that the price he paid is, to him, pocket change. Or it may be a good sized chunk of his discretionary coin money.
Whatever the case, it really does not matter.
I get the impression that Michiganboy bought the set because he evaluated it, liked it and decided that he wanted it at the price the seller was asking. Whether or not his purchase price has put him in to an immediate position of being:
a. "in the hole";
b. at a break even point;
c. able to resell for a 10% profit;
d. able to resell for $16K (double his money)
is beside the point and immaterial.
I do not think that Michiganboy will care which of the 4 categories listed above he falls in. He likes the proof set and has enjoyed acquiring same in raw condition. These types of coins do not pop up raw that often. While it would be less risky to purchase slabbed examples of these coins, there is something to be said for hunting for and purchasing raw coins. You may just find that you pick up nice coins for price that is less than what you would pay for slabbed coins. I suspect that many, if not most, of those who post on the forums have at one time or another purchased raw coins because we like them and want them (the purchase prices paid by us for for these raw coins probably range from less than $10.00 to probably over $25,000.00). Some have been purchased for low prices and some have been purchased at high prices. Some have done well on these purchases and some have not done well.
If this purchase turns out to be good for Michiganboy then we will all congratulate him for his "good eye" and his willingness to roll the dice on this type of purchase. If he breaks even or takes a loss, that should also be ok since he considered the pros and cons before purchasing the proof set. After all, coin collecting for the most part is a "hobby" in which participants want to have enjoyment and fun more than anything else.
Good luck Michiganboy on having your new set graded and congrats on your new purchase.
PS. There is a local shop in the SF Bay Area that I patronize. The owner bought a collection in 2010 or 2011 that walked in the door. The collector had died and relatives decided to sell. In bag of loose, raw coins the dealer found a set of proof coins from the 19th century (I think it is from the 1880's). The coins included three of the four seated liberty silvers (I think the quarter is missing), a shield nickel and an indian head cent. The silver seated liberty coins are lower grade with hairlines and scratches (60-62). The nickel and cent are higher grade (63-64) and the cent is a variety. The cent also has multicolored toning.
The dealer has had the proof coins in his display case for some time. They were there when I last stopped by a few months ago. The dealer has told me that multiple dealers have expressed an interest in buying some of the coins (but not all). He told me that he prefers to sell all of them as a single unit to a collector who will keep the set intact.
I like the coins, particularly the nickel and cent. There is a definite appeal to finding coins like this raw (I guess they are "fresh" [whatever that means]). If I had the discretionary funds available I might be tempted to pick up the coins, like Michiganboy.
If anyone is interested in checking these coins out, send me a PM.
You are correct. I am repeating what the dealer told me about how he acquired the 19th century raw proof coins. He may be telling me the truth or he may be making up the story. Based upon my prior dealings with him I have no reason to not believe him. But you never know.
With respect to the coins themselves, I have seen them on multiple occasions and have looked at them closely in my hand with a loupe. They are proof coins with the nickel and cent being of higher quality than the silvers. I have also seen them on display in his shop multiple times over the past year or so. They might still be there for all I know.
It would not surprise me to learn that the dealer has had interested buyers of individual coins express interest and that he declined anything other than a sale of all of the coins as a single lot. This makes sense to me since if he sells the higher grade nickel and cent, it may be harder for him to sell the lower quality seated liberty silver coins as individual coins at anything more than low prices.
Reading this thread about the 1872 raw proof set caused me to remember the set I have seen and caused me to post about it.
Sanction the trade value was based on loss and gains to total FMV $5000 , some silver was bought at the high and some at a low, some was pulled from change as well at face, and most of the other stuff was bought at a wholesale value and I then traded at today's FMV I came up with looking at auction prices. Regardless I the buyer gave a little and so did the seller. He was a very nice guy, said he was about to getting ready to retire and we talked about some on his other coins and he has some pieces that shocked me that he owned. After I bought the set he disclosed his cost in the 90's at auction was $11,500 bought was when the market was stronger. Also your right even if I get a little buried it was just hobby money.
Anyway I just got home I'm gonna relax. Then I'm gonna try taking pictures again, thanks for the interest everyone. Also the money spent to me is also entertainment and enjoyment of getting to include the forums with my passion for numismatics for as long as the novelty last then on to the next raw coin treasure hunt.
Just to point out the story about it costing the seller $11,500 in a '90's auction could also well be a fabrication. >>
Realone I don't know this guy from squat but I seriously doubt this guy would lie after meeting him, two things one he told me after the fact of deal being made , two my gut told me so and thats all I need.
Please keep your points to one of the same because I think we got it the first time with sanction, and I don't want my thread high jacked with unneeded opinions as this is about learning from my 19th century proof coin experiences. I want to try and keep it free of negatives unless they are clearly articulated and about this set. If you want to say I think blah blah is cleaned and this is why look at this area of the coin thats cool.
I'm gonna go to my father in laws house tonight at 6pm, coin pics will be up late tonight when I return front and back, so 20 pics. How should I format that many pics in a thread?
Grading will be done one shot (all coins) at standard service 15 days turn around in about one week. In the mean time once photos are up people can GTG and leave opinions.
One last question for the group, has anyone opened one of these old capital plastics holders with that many coins in it and how is the safest way to take them out?
I can tell you what works for me with these holders. Remove the screws and lift up the top layer. Wipe it clean to remove any debris you find on it. Remove any debris you find on the top side of the inner layer the holds the coins. Put the top layer back and flip the holder over so the obverse sides of the coins are facing down. Lay the holder face down on a table. Take away the bottom layer and clean it also to remove any debris. Set it aside. Lift the inner layer slightly. Grab the sides with both hands and gently twist the sides. Since the sides of the holes are slightly beveled many of the coins will come loose and drop the half inch or so to the outer layer on the table. For those coins that do not drop you may have to try again and twist harder or clean your hands and with the edge of your fingernail gently push down on the rim of the coin next to the wall of the hole in the middle layer containing the coin. This will usually work without making any contact with the fields or devices of the coins. After all coins are removed from the middle layer clean it on both sides to remove debris.
<< <i>Respectfully, I don't think you are ready to buy raw proofs. You shouldn't need Photograde or any other resource. You should have enough experience to know what you are looking at immediately.
If I were you, I'd offer to take these coins on consignment for the seller's asking price. Have them all graded. If they don't grade right, crack them out and return them to the consignor. >>
That looks like a nice set of coins. Good luck with them. I'm also anxious to hear how they graded. Congrats on your set...... Hey, you can't win if you don't play.......
<< <i>Sanction the trade value was based on loss and gains to total FMV $5000 , some silver was bought at the high and some at a low, some was pulled from change as well at face, and most of the other stuff was bought at a wholesale value and I then traded at today's FMV I came up with looking at auction prices. Regardless I the buyer gave a little and so did the seller. He was a very nice guy, said he was about to getting ready to retire and we talked about some on his other coins and he has some pieces that shocked me that he owned. After I bought the set he disclosed his cost in the 90's at auction was $11,500 bought was when the market was stronger. Also your right even if I get a little buried it was just hobby money.
Anyway I just got home I'm gonna relax. Then I'm gonna try taking pictures again, thanks for the interest everyone. Also the money spent to me is also entertainment and enjoyment of getting to include the forums with my passion for numismatics for as long as the novelty last then on to the next raw coin treasure hunt. >>
Just to point out the story about it costing the seller $11,500 in a '90's auction could also well be a fabrication. >>
And it could very well be true. People to do tell the truth from time to time. At the end of the day in this case it really does not matter. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Some lint and a little white piece of plastic in one shot and some shadow in a few but its the best I get can do, I wish I could capture the mirrors you can see under the toning they look great from the side especially. Also the copper is just grainy in the toning and photos are weird looking to me anyway.
I would say for grades $ PR60 50c PR62 25c PR65 10c PR63 h10c PR63 5c PR64 3cN PR63 3cS PR65 2c PR64 1c PR64
Your grades listed below. My comments in parentheses. $ PR60 (Wear plus hit on leg and wear on breasts make me think PR58 or Genuine. Hope you luck into a 63) 50c PR62 (Tough call. I can't tell if that is wear on the leg and breasts) 25c PR65 (Doubt it will go 65 due to the abrasion on the shin) 10c PR63 h10c PR63 (Wouldn't be surprised if it went 64) 5c PR64 (63 or 64 if that isn't PVC on Trust) 3cN PR63 (63 or 64) 3cS PR65 (Tough to get a 65 with heavy toning like that. Probably a 63 or 64 unless the reflectivity is screaming) 2c PR64 (63 or 64 if it doesn't have environmental damage) 1c PR64
I still think the dollar could not go below PR60 after looking at a lot of them, especial doubt genuine after my half graded PR58 5c PR64 (63 or 64 if that isn't PVC on Trust)
I don't know what it is it to small to make out with a loupe but its the only coin I already new was gonna get actoned a little first cause it also has some yellowing on the other side you can see well that I don't like.
<< <i>Sanction the trade value was based on loss and gains to total FMV $5000 , some silver was bought at the high and some at a low, some was pulled from change as well at face, and most of the other stuff was bought at a wholesale value and I then traded at today's FMV I came up with looking at auction prices. Regardless I the buyer gave a little and so did the seller. He was a very nice guy, said he was about to getting ready to retire and we talked about some on his other coins and he has some pieces that shocked me that he owned. After I bought the set he disclosed his cost in the 90's at auction was $11,500 bought was when the market was stronger. Also your right even if I get a little buried it was just hobby money.
Anyway I just got home I'm gonna relax. Then I'm gonna try taking pictures again, thanks for the interest everyone. Also the money spent to me is also entertainment and enjoyment of getting to include the forums with my passion for numismatics for as long as the novelty last then on to the next raw coin treasure hunt. >>
Just to point out the story about it costing the seller $11,500 in a '90's auction could also well be a fabrication. >>
And it could very well be true. People to do tell the truth from time to time. At the end of the day in this case it really does not matter. MJ >>
MJ just said what I have been thinking......and he said it well. It's all good to be wary, but at the end of the day, sometimes it just DOESN'T MATTER!
I wish the best in this to Michiganboy, and glad he is enjoying himself on this so far.
It's all good and well to try to help out and give (even unsolicited) advice, which, as we know, will come quite often in these forums, however, some folks only seem to post the cynical side, even when they are already acknowledged as having said it, and it is pointed out "thanks, but no thanks"....they seem to still need to get their negativity in. A story is a story. Most all of us know that. Unless someone was there at the time, it is 3rd hand, or worse, information. However, at the end of the day, if someone is buying the coins, then the story is, at worst, "nice" to hear. If true, then great. Otherwise, WHO CARES? Now, if the OP were buying the coins FOR THE STORY, or in Sanction's story, he were buying them, or suggesting others buy them, FOR the story, then that is a different matter.
Only 1 person on the forums has seen the coins in hand so far, and he doesn't seem to be spending his last paycheck and the food out of his family's mouth, to buy them, so more power to him. Enjoy the hobby. Learn if you end up needing to learn. Some folks gamble, knowing it is a losing proposition most of the time, but it is fun. This is similar. It's a gamble, he is enjoying, and it isn't anyone else's responsibility to FORCE FEED him something he doesn't want. Of course, all the armchair numismatists here know better than him and anyone else though (there are a few who have posted that do have a lot of knowledge, esp in this area, but they are still looking from a photo, or two....would have been cool for them to have looked at them in person as well, but it didn't happen, wasn't likely to happen, so it's a "move on and wait for the grades" type of approach).
<< <i>PS. There is a local shop in the SF Bay Area that I patronize. The owner bought a collection in 2010 or 2011 that walked in the door. The collector had died and relatives decided to sell. In bag of loose, raw coins the dealer found a set of proof coins from the 19th century (I think it is from the 1880's). The coins included three of the four seated liberty silvers (I think the quarter is missing), a shield nickel and an indian head cent. The silver seated liberty coins are lower grade with hairlines and scratches (60-62). The nickel and cent are higher grade (63-64) and the cent is a variety. The cent also has multicolored toning.
The dealer has had the proof coins in his display case for some time. They were there when I last stopped by a few months ago. The dealer has told me that multiple dealers have expressed an interest in buying some of the coins (but not all). He told me that he prefers to sell all of them as a single unit to a collector who will keep the set intact.
I like the coins, particularly the nickel and cent. There is a definite appeal to finding coins like this raw (I guess they are "fresh" [whatever that means]). If I had the discretionary funds available I might be tempted to pick up the coins, like Michiganboy.
If anyone is interested in checking these coins out, send me a PM. >>
Some nice looking coins there, better than expected, I'd venture to say. Good luck on the grades!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
you know...a lil scattered right now...busy last 2 nights quick look thou...those are way better then seller's pix...i bet better images would display some neat toning in color too we all offer opinions here as tpg's "merely" is all i like the bold and brave as life rewards equally for having such trait or not i think these coins will fair well keeping in mind...we all know...sometimes this is "a process in it's self" that requires diligence and several trips in "a underlying share the wealth or not" as it be...
congrats on a great set of coins...that's the crowd i'm in....
everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see
Will be interesting to see how they come back. Difficult to grade due to mirrors and hairlines not visible.
If you are keeping them, enjoy them. They look like a cool set, but unless you get some high grades, you will lose money if you go to sell. Not only do you have some issues with grades, but you will also have issues with the darkness of the coins. Dark coins are hard to sell...period.
Love the date though...too bad your quarter wasn't a mistaken business strike. That would help you out a bit. The two cent as well...but oh well.
Some lint and a little white piece of plastic in one shot and some shadow in a few but its the best I get can do, I wish I could capture the mirrors you can see under the toning they look great from the side especially. Also the copper is just grainy in the toning and photos are weird looking to me anyway.
I would say for grades $ PR60 50c PR62 25c PR65 10c PR63 h10c PR63 5c PR64 3cN PR63 3cS PR65 2c PR64 1c PR64 >>
Maybe it is your pics, but I do not see coins that I would expect to grade PR60 or better. I wish you luck, but I see a mix of AUs and Gennies.
Maybe it is your pics, but I do not see coins that I would expect to grade PR60 or better. I wish you luck, but I see a mix of AUs and Gennies. >>
Care to explain what makes you think any of these coins would genny? I can accept the dollar may get a circulated grade do to the knee but as stated before think it got good chances at PR60 due to the nature grading low mintage 19 century proofs seems to be different then bussiness strikes. As my proof being my half grading AU58 with enough hairlines to be considered wear to me (some cut right through devices). The toning also in these pics just look dark but they look flashy and colorful on some of the coins like quarter actually is golden toned and mirrors are still easily to see, but the detail of coins in pics is good.
<< <i>Maybe it is your pics, but I do not see coins that I would expect to grade PR60 or better. I wish you luck, but I see a mix of AUs and Gennies. >>
You don't think any of the coins will grade PR60 or better? I think that's an extremely unlikely outcome.
<< <i>Maybe it is your pics, but I do not see coins that I would expect to grade PR60 or better. I wish you luck, but I see a mix of AUs and Gennies. >>
You don't think any of the coins will grade PR60 or better? I think that's an extremely unlikely outcome. >>
Thanks Bayard, I was wondering how he could come to that conclusing as well.
The new pics don't reveal a whole lot more. The coins are darkish which makes evaluating the mirrors via photos almost impossible. I don't have any issues with the grades the OP assigned other than anything higher than a 64. But one can always get lucky. The photos of the 1c and 2c came out pretty good and those look like 63/64 quality. The dollar doesn't look rubbed to me but rather probably just some high point scuffing that took away the patina. I wouldn't expect anything lower than 60/61 on that. It would be unusual to have a matched set of orig/toned proof seated coins where one of the larger coins was a 65 while all the others were 60-63. It usually doesn't work out that way.
<< <i>The new pics don't reveal a whole lot more. The coins are darkish which makes evaluating the mirrors via photos almost impossible. I don't have any issues with the grades the OP assigned other than anything higher than a 64. But one can always get lucky. The photos of the 1c and 2c came out pretty good and those look like 63/64 quality. The dollar doesn't look rubbed to me but rather probably just some high point scuffing that took away the patina. I wouldn't expect anything lower than 60/61 on that. >>
Thanks for your time RR, I wish I could show them off in there true form but not a photographer let alone a coin image specialist.
My only concern now is treating green the spot on the shield nickel I don't know what it is verdigris, pvc or something else and its real small , I'm gonna go to my old dealer buddy to see if he will do it with me. Nothing else is out of the ordinary like that on the other coins and they've at least been in the holder for 20 years time previous owner got them in tact from auction like that. Should I have any other concern's?
Well using your opinion of my grades and Bayard's grade estimates I didn't get buried, Yet!!
My only concern now is treating green the spot on the shield nickel I don't know what it is verdigris, pvc or something else and its real small , I'm gonna go to my old dealer buddy to see if he will do it with me. Nothing else is out of the ordinary like that on the other coins and they've at least been in the holder for 20 years time previous owner got them in tact from auction like that. Should I have any other concern's?
Again just to be clear for newbees reading this cool thread, we don't know where the coins have been for the past 20 years, the story you were told can't be verified so it is only a story and not a statement of fact. Sure it could be true but no one will ever know for sure, it is hearsay.
Well using your's and Bayard's grade estimates I didn't get buried, Yet!! >>
>>
Sorry realone, can you add something useful to this thread not already stated twice before by you.
ps I'm sure I could verify it all I have to do is see if he has original receipts, thought about asking about the auction some more anyway to see I could find out if more about previous owners. Provenance would add some value as well but I doubt it there just saying the stories sometimes led to interesting facts or just something to talk about.
<< <i>well these finally went in for grading expect grades posted in probably 18-19 days >>
Good luck! May be a few extra days as my last 3 orders got entered in on 4/5 and I am still waiting.....of course, these may draw interest a lot more than the ones I sent in
<< <i>Page 2? The full ten coins front and back is page 6 . >>
You can set/customie how many posts you want to read per page. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
The only coin I'll comment on is the 2c piece, as I have collected them for the past several decades. From the pictures, the obverse looks to have been cleaned at one time, and, in my opinion, has environmental damage. The spot on the right hand side concerns me. On my monitor, it appears to be active PVC.
Best of luck! MD
Fall 2026 National Battlefield Coin Show September 11 & 12, 2026 at the Eisenhower Hotel Ballroom, Gettysburg, PA. Early Bird passes Thursday September 10, 2026 from Noon to 5pm $25 each. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
<< <i>The only coin I'll comment on is the 2c piece, as I have collected them for the past several decades. From the pictures, the obverse looks to have been cleaned at one time, and, in my opinion, has environmental damage. The spot on the right hand side concerns me. On my monitor, it appears to be active PVC.
Best of luck! MD >>
Actually the little speck( theres actually two) are pices of something that where floating around in the capital plastics holder it self. I took get care to look over these coins once I removed them under microscope and none had anything on the except the sheild nickel, which has now been conserved. Otherwise I see no hairlines or other presence of cleaning on the 2c piece but lets just see what PCGS says. As for the evironmental damage I don't think so but again lets let PCGS tell me the pictures actually look kinda funky for the copper as stated before where I also noted the small plastic and other stuff floating around in the capital plastics holder.
I wonder what kind of environment that they sat in undisturbed all this time so that the silver toned so much more than the copper? Hard to imagine.....
<< <i>Is it just me or are the minor coins not proofs? >>
I'd be fine with that to do you know how much a circulation strike of a 3 cent silver is worth? a whole lot more then a proof, it would be worth by it self more then I paid for the whole set. Unfortunitly if you had seen the coins in hand you would know these are all proofs its easy to tell they all have mirrors, deep strikes ( 1872 was known for have weakly struck coins across the board), and they don't look like BS at all. Even though their are so many doubters here I would go as far a to say these are a original set. Remeber I have these coins in my own hands they all have close to the same look and where in a capital plastics holder circa 1940's ( my local dealer had a shop here since 1965 don't known how long hes been into coins though gave me time era). Previous owner had them for 20 years rewcieved them in auction in said capital plastics holder.
Anyways some of the minor coins are worth more if they are business strikes anyways, can't remeber which ones but I know definity the 3cS with only 1000 circulation strikes and 950 proofs strike the proof is around 1500-1900 the BS worth 10,000+ if so, so ask me if I care. It will work out for me no matter what. I already did the math on lowest grades to 65
Comments
some heavy toning in the deeply protected areas. And then abrupt changes into the fields suggested something removed a layer of toning at some point. The coins are probably
going to come back in the 58-63 range with 61 or 62 probably being the norm. I'd be pretty surprised if any of the 25c, 50c, or $1 came back 64 or better. Best of luck.
<< <i>Following this thread with interest. Would be nice if you could somehow get some proper pictures. Good luck with the grading and I hope you come out ok. I know I woulnd't have had the balls to pull the trigger. >>
Yeah I'm at work now but I get off at two and will try and retake photos. Problem i'm having is using my camera ( kodak esay share 10.5mp) is that the auto focus keep bluring and I have to take it under direct light to get clear photos then I'm getting glare in my shots thats covering some of the coin. Any advice with taking photos with my camera maybe? Other wise like I said earlier I'm gonna try to get my father in laws to shot photos for me. As far as grading goes now i'm thinking about sending them all in at once. I just gotta sit down and figure out the values and I want to take pictures first so might be a week.
type2,CCHunter.
Michiganboy had interest in the set and pursued it. In doing so he was able to look at the proof set in hand and view the individual coins with his own eyes. In addition to his own knowledge and experience, through this thread he also has obtained input from numerous others. He agreed upon a price with the seller and bought the proof set. He paid for the set in part with cash and in part with bullion and other coins. It may be that his cost basis in the bullion is face value (pulling same from pocket change 40-50 years ago) or zero (inherited same from his parents or was given same as a gift by his grandparents), or at a level representing the cost of same purchased when silver was $5.00 per ounce, or at a level representing the cost of same purchased when silver was at $45.00 ounce last year. It may be that the price he paid is, to him, pocket change. Or it may be a good sized chunk of his discretionary coin money.
Whatever the case, it really does not matter.
I get the impression that Michiganboy bought the set because he evaluated it, liked it and decided that he wanted it at the price the seller was asking. Whether or not his purchase price has put him in to an immediate position of being:
a. "in the hole";
b. at a break even point;
c. able to resell for a 10% profit;
d. able to resell for $16K (double his money)
is beside the point and immaterial.
I do not think that Michiganboy will care which of the 4 categories listed above he falls in. He likes the proof set and has enjoyed acquiring same in raw condition. These types of coins do not pop up raw that often. While it would be less risky to purchase slabbed examples of these coins, there is something to be said for hunting for and purchasing raw coins. You may just find that you pick up nice coins for price that is less than what you would pay for slabbed coins. I suspect that many, if not most, of those who post on the forums have at one time or another purchased raw coins because we like them and want them (the purchase prices paid by us for for these raw coins probably range from less than $10.00 to probably over $25,000.00). Some have been purchased for low prices and some have been purchased at high prices. Some have done well on these purchases and some have not done well.
If this purchase turns out to be good for Michiganboy then we will all congratulate him for his "good eye" and his willingness to roll the dice on this type of purchase. If he breaks even or takes a loss, that should also be ok since he considered the pros and cons before purchasing the proof set. After all, coin collecting for the most part is a "hobby" in which participants want to have enjoyment and fun more than anything else.
Good luck Michiganboy on having your new set graded and congrats on your new purchase.
The dealer has had the proof coins in his display case for some time. They were there when I last stopped by a few months ago. The dealer has told me that multiple dealers have expressed an interest in buying some of the coins (but not all). He told me that he prefers to sell all of them as a single unit to a collector who will keep the set intact.
I like the coins, particularly the nickel and cent. There is a definite appeal to finding coins like this raw (I guess they are "fresh" [whatever that means]). If I had the discretionary funds available I might be tempted to pick up the coins, like Michiganboy.
If anyone is interested in checking these coins out, send me a PM.
You are correct. I am repeating what the dealer told me about how he acquired the 19th century raw proof coins. He may be telling me the truth or he may be making up the story. Based upon my prior dealings with him I have no reason to not believe him. But you never know.
With respect to the coins themselves, I have seen them on multiple occasions and have looked at them closely in my hand with a loupe. They are proof coins with the nickel and cent being of higher quality than the silvers. I have also seen them on display in his shop multiple times over the past year or so. They might still be there for all I know.
It would not surprise me to learn that the dealer has had interested buyers of individual coins express interest and that he declined anything other than a sale of all of the coins as a single lot. This makes sense to me since if he sells the higher grade nickel and cent, it may be harder for him to sell the lower quality seated liberty silver coins as individual coins at anything more than low prices.
Reading this thread about the 1872 raw proof set caused me to remember the set I have seen and caused me to post about it.
Anyway I just got home I'm gonna relax. Then I'm gonna try taking pictures again, thanks for the interest everyone. Also the money spent to me is also entertainment and enjoyment of getting to include the forums with my passion for numismatics for as long as the novelty last then on to the next raw coin treasure hunt.
type2,CCHunter.
Realone I don't know this guy from squat but I seriously doubt this guy would lie after meeting him, two things one he told me after the fact of deal being made , two my gut told me so and thats all I need.
Please keep your points to one of the same because I think we got it the first time with sanction, and I don't want my thread high jacked with unneeded opinions as this is about learning from my 19th century proof coin experiences. I want to try and keep it free of negatives unless they are clearly articulated and about this set. If you want to say I think blah blah is cleaned and this is why look at this area of the coin thats cool.
I'm gonna go to my father in laws house tonight at 6pm, coin pics will be up late tonight when I return front and back, so 20 pics. How should I format that many pics in a thread?
Grading will be done one shot (all coins) at standard service 15 days turn around in about one week. In the mean time once photos are up people can GTG and leave opinions.
One last question for the group, has anyone opened one of these old capital plastics holders with that many coins in it and how is the safest way to take them out?
type2,CCHunter.
Good luck. Looking forward to your pictures.
<< <i>Respectfully, I don't think you are ready to buy raw proofs. You shouldn't need Photograde or any other resource. You should have enough experience to know what you are looking at immediately.
If I were you, I'd offer to take these coins on consignment for the seller's asking price. Have them all graded. If they don't grade right, crack them out and return them to the consignor. >>
Congrats on your set......
Hey, you can't win if you don't play.......
<< <i>
<< <i>Sanction the trade value was based on loss and gains to total FMV $5000 , some silver was bought at the high and some at a low, some was pulled from change as well at face, and most of the other stuff was bought at a wholesale value and I then traded at today's FMV I came up with looking at auction prices. Regardless I the buyer gave a little and so did the seller. He was a very nice guy, said he was about to getting ready to retire and we talked about some on his other coins and he has some pieces that shocked me that he owned. After I bought the set he disclosed his cost in the 90's at auction was $11,500 bought was when the market was stronger. Also your right even if I get a little buried it was just hobby money.
Anyway I just got home I'm gonna relax. Then I'm gonna try taking pictures again, thanks for the interest everyone. Also the money spent to me is also entertainment and enjoyment of getting to include the forums with my passion for numismatics for as long as the novelty last then on to the next raw coin treasure hunt. >>
Just to point out the story about it costing the seller $11,500 in a '90's auction could also well be a fabrication. >>
And it could very well be true. People to do tell the truth from time to time. At the end of the day in this case it really does not matter. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Some lint and a little white piece of plastic in one shot and some shadow in a few but its the best I get can do, I wish I could capture the mirrors you can see under the toning they look great from the side especially. Also the copper is just grainy in the toning and photos are weird looking to me anyway.
I would say for grades
$ PR60
50c PR62
25c PR65
10c PR63
h10c PR63
5c PR64
3cN PR63
3cS PR65
2c PR64
1c PR64
type2,CCHunter.
$ PR60 (Wear plus hit on leg and wear on breasts make me think PR58 or Genuine. Hope you luck into a 63)
50c PR62 (Tough call. I can't tell if that is wear on the leg and breasts)
25c PR65 (Doubt it will go 65 due to the abrasion on the shin)
10c PR63
h10c PR63 (Wouldn't be surprised if it went 64)
5c PR64 (63 or 64 if that isn't PVC on Trust)
3cN PR63 (63 or 64)
3cS PR65 (Tough to get a 65 with heavy toning like that. Probably a 63 or 64 unless the reflectivity is screaming)
2c PR64 (63 or 64 if it doesn't have environmental damage)
1c PR64
5c PR64 (63 or 64 if that isn't PVC on Trust)
I don't know what it is it to small to make out with a loupe but its the only coin I already new was gonna get actoned a little first cause it also has some yellowing on the other side you can see well that I don't like.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Way too dark. Is there any luster anywhere? >>
Proof coins have mirrors not mint luster.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Sanction the trade value was based on loss and gains to total FMV $5000 , some silver was bought at the high and some at a low, some was pulled from change as well at face, and most of the other stuff was bought at a wholesale value and I then traded at today's FMV I came up with looking at auction prices. Regardless I the buyer gave a little and so did the seller. He was a very nice guy, said he was about to getting ready to retire and we talked about some on his other coins and he has some pieces that shocked me that he owned. After I bought the set he disclosed his cost in the 90's at auction was $11,500 bought was when the market was stronger. Also your right even if I get a little buried it was just hobby money.
Anyway I just got home I'm gonna relax. Then I'm gonna try taking pictures again, thanks for the interest everyone. Also the money spent to me is also entertainment and enjoyment of getting to include the forums with my passion for numismatics for as long as the novelty last then on to the next raw coin treasure hunt. >>
Just to point out the story about it costing the seller $11,500 in a '90's auction could also well be a fabrication. >>
And it could very well be true. People to do tell the truth from time to time. At the end of the day in this case it really does not matter. MJ >>
MJ just said what I have been thinking......and he said it well.
It's all good to be wary, but at the end of the day, sometimes it just DOESN'T MATTER!
I wish the best in this to Michiganboy, and glad he is enjoying himself on this so far.
It's all good and well to try to help out and give (even unsolicited) advice, which, as we know, will come quite often in these forums, however, some folks only seem to post the cynical side, even when they are already acknowledged as having said it, and it is pointed out "thanks, but no thanks"....they seem to still need to get their negativity in. A story is a story. Most all of us know that. Unless someone was there at the time, it is 3rd hand, or worse, information. However, at the end of the day, if someone is buying the coins, then the story is, at worst, "nice" to hear. If true, then great. Otherwise, WHO CARES?
Now, if the OP were buying the coins FOR THE STORY, or in Sanction's story, he were buying them, or suggesting others buy them, FOR the story, then that is a different matter.
Only 1 person on the forums has seen the coins in hand so far, and he doesn't seem to be spending his last paycheck and the food out of his family's mouth, to buy them, so more power to him. Enjoy the hobby. Learn if you end up needing to learn. Some folks gamble, knowing it is a losing proposition most of the time, but it is fun. This is similar. It's a gamble, he is enjoying, and it isn't anyone else's responsibility to FORCE FEED him something he doesn't want. Of course, all the armchair numismatists here know better than him and anyone else though
(there are a few who have posted that do have a lot of knowledge, esp in this area, but they are still looking from a photo, or two....would have been cool for them to have looked at them in person as well, but it didn't happen, wasn't likely to happen, so it's a "move on and wait for the grades" type of approach).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>PS. There is a local shop in the SF Bay Area that I patronize. The owner bought a collection in 2010 or 2011 that walked in the door. The collector had died and relatives decided to sell. In bag of loose, raw coins the dealer found a set of proof coins from the 19th century (I think it is from the 1880's). The coins included three of the four seated liberty silvers (I think the quarter is missing), a shield nickel and an indian head cent. The silver seated liberty coins are lower grade with hairlines and scratches (60-62). The nickel and cent are higher grade (63-64) and the cent is a variety. The cent also has multicolored toning.
The dealer has had the proof coins in his display case for some time. They were there when I last stopped by a few months ago. The dealer has told me that multiple dealers have expressed an interest in buying some of the coins (but not all). He told me that he prefers to sell all of them as a single unit to a collector who will keep the set intact.
I like the coins, particularly the nickel and cent. There is a definite appeal to finding coins like this raw (I guess they are "fresh" [whatever that means]). If I had the discretionary funds available I might be tempted to pick up the coins, like Michiganboy.
If anyone is interested in checking these coins out, send me a PM. >>
PM'D
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
quick look thou...those are way better then seller's pix...i bet better images would display some neat toning in color too
we all offer opinions here as tpg's "merely" is all
i like the bold and brave as life rewards equally for having such trait or not
i think these coins will fair well keeping in mind...we all know...sometimes this is "a process in it's self" that requires diligence and several trips in
"a underlying share the wealth or not" as it be...
congrats on a great set of coins...that's the crowd i'm in....
If you are keeping them, enjoy them. They look like a cool set, but unless you get some high grades, you will lose money if you go to sell. Not only do you have some issues with grades, but you will also have issues with the darkness of the coins. Dark coins are hard to sell...period.
Love the date though...too bad your quarter wasn't a mistaken business strike. That would help you out a bit.
siliconvalleycoins.com
<< <i>
Some lint and a little white piece of plastic in one shot and some shadow in a few but its the best I get can do, I wish I could capture the mirrors you can see under the toning they look great from the side especially. Also the copper is just grainy in the toning and photos are weird looking to me anyway.
I would say for grades
$ PR60
50c PR62
25c PR65
10c PR63
h10c PR63
5c PR64
3cN PR63
3cS PR65
2c PR64
1c PR64 >>
Maybe it is your pics, but I do not see coins that I would expect to grade PR60 or better. I wish you luck, but I see a mix of AUs and Gennies.
merse
Care to explain what makes you think any of these coins would genny? I can accept the dollar may get a circulated grade do to the knee but as stated before think it got good chances at PR60 due to the nature grading low mintage 19 century proofs seems to be different then bussiness strikes. As my proof being my half grading AU58 with enough hairlines to be considered wear to me (some cut right through devices). The toning also in these pics just look dark but they look flashy and colorful on some of the coins like quarter actually is golden toned and mirrors are still easily to see, but the detail of coins in pics is good.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Maybe it is your pics, but I do not see coins that I would expect to grade PR60 or better. I wish you luck, but I see a mix of AUs and Gennies. >>
You don't think any of the coins will grade PR60 or better? I think that's an extremely unlikely outcome.
<< <i>
<< <i>Maybe it is your pics, but I do not see coins that I would expect to grade PR60 or better. I wish you luck, but I see a mix of AUs and Gennies. >>
You don't think any of the coins will grade PR60 or better? I think that's an extremely unlikely outcome. >>
Thanks Bayard, I was wondering how he could come to that conclusing as well.
type2,CCHunter.
look rubbed to me but rather probably just some high point scuffing that took away the patina. I wouldn't expect anything lower than 60/61 on that. It would be unusual to have a
matched set of orig/toned proof seated coins where one of the larger coins was a 65 while all the others were 60-63. It usually doesn't work out that way.
<< <i>The new pics don't reveal a whole lot more. The coins are darkish which makes evaluating the mirrors via photos almost impossible. I don't have any issues with the grades the OP assigned other than anything higher than a 64. But one can always get lucky. The photos of the 1c and 2c came out pretty good and those look like 63/64 quality. The dollar doesn't
look rubbed to me but rather probably just some high point scuffing that took away the patina. I wouldn't expect anything lower than 60/61 on that. >>
Thanks for your time RR, I wish I could show them off in there true form but not a photographer let alone a coin image specialist.
My only concern now is treating green the spot on the shield nickel I don't know what it is verdigris, pvc or something else and its real small , I'm gonna go to my old dealer buddy to see if he will do it with me. Nothing else is out of the ordinary like that on the other coins and they've at least been in the holder for 20 years time previous owner got them in tact from auction like that. Should I have any other concern's?
Well using your opinion of my grades and Bayard's grade estimates I didn't get buried, Yet!!
type2,CCHunter.
Again just to be clear for newbees reading this cool thread, we don't know where the coins have been for the past 20 years, the story you were told can't be verified so it is only a story and not a statement of fact. Sure it could be true but no one will ever know for sure, it is hearsay.
Well using your's and Bayard's grade estimates I didn't get buried, Yet!! >>
>>
Sorry realone, can you add something useful to this thread not already stated twice before by you.
ps I'm sure I could verify it all I have to do is see if he has original receipts, thought about asking about the auction some more anyway to see I could find out if more about previous owners. Provenance would add some value as well but I doubt it there just saying the stories sometimes led to interesting facts or just something to talk about.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Awesome project, hoping the best as far as the grades.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>well these finally went in for grading expect grades posted in probably 18-19 days >>
Good luck!
May be a few extra days as my last 3 orders got entered in on 4/5 and I am still waiting.....of course, these may draw interest a lot more than the ones I sent in
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
neat coins,
the images are on page 2 for me ;-)
.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Page 2? The full ten coins front and back is page 6 . >>
You can set/customie how many posts you want to read per page. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Best of luck!
MD
<< <i>The only coin I'll comment on is the 2c piece, as I have collected them for the past several decades. From the pictures, the obverse looks to have been cleaned at one time, and, in my opinion, has environmental damage. The spot on the right hand side concerns me. On my monitor, it appears to be active PVC.
Best of luck!
MD >>
Actually the little speck( theres actually two) are pices of something that where floating around in the capital plastics holder it self. I took get care to look over these coins once I removed them under microscope and none had anything on the except the sheild nickel, which has now been conserved. Otherwise I see no hairlines or other presence of cleaning on the 2c piece but lets just see what PCGS says. As for the evironmental damage I don't think so but again lets let PCGS tell me the pictures actually look kinda funky for the copper as stated before where I also noted the small plastic and other stuff floating around in the capital plastics holder.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Is it just me or are the minor coins not proofs? >>
Might not be just you.
Eric
merse
<< <i>Is it just me or are the minor coins not proofs? >>
I'd be fine with that to do you know how much a circulation strike of a 3 cent silver is worth? a whole lot more then a proof, it would be worth by it self more then I paid for the whole set. Unfortunitly if you had seen the coins in hand you would know these are all proofs its easy to tell they all have mirrors, deep strikes ( 1872 was known for have weakly struck coins across the board), and they don't look like BS at all. Even though their are so many doubters here I would go as far a to say these are a original set. Remeber I have these coins in my own hands they all have close to the same look and where in a capital plastics holder circa 1940's ( my local dealer had a shop here since 1965 don't known how long hes been into coins though gave me time era). Previous owner had them for 20 years rewcieved them in auction in said capital plastics holder.
Anyways some of the minor coins are worth more if they are business strikes anyways, can't remeber which ones but I know definity the 3cS with only 1000 circulation strikes and 950 proofs strike the proof is around 1500-1900 the BS worth 10,000+ if so, so ask me if I care. It will work out for me no matter what. I already did the math on lowest grades to 65
type2,CCHunter.