How long before I should sound the alarms on a BST transaction

jmdm1194 · March 20, 2012 2:20AM

I don't want to do anything that will get me in trouble nor do I want to soil the reputation of a board member if there turns out to be an explanation for his/her absence. Long story short, I purchased some 25th anniversary sets on the 8th of March, $1900 worth to be exact. This member responded almost immediately to all of my messages. I promptly paid with paypal so I know of course I am protected that way. However it is now the 20th of mar and I have no tracking, no coins and for the past three days I have been trying to reach this member with no response. So my question to you guys is how long do I wait before I open a paypal dispute and if it turns out to be just a rotten transaction is there a tactful way of alarming my fellow board members of this individual so that this doesn't happen to anyone else. Like I said, there could a perfectly logical explanation to all this but it is starting to smell and I just want to be prepared.

Thanks,
Jeremy

edit to correct a spelling typo

barrytrot · March 20, 2012 2:22AM

12 days sounds like the time to sound the alarm to me if the person hasn't responded at all for 3 days.

commoncents05 · March 20, 2012 2:27AM

A lot of people on the boards are skiddish shipping a package with that value, so it probably went Registered, which isn't really trackable anyways. I would give them a couple more days just in case they have had a life outside the boards for the last 3 days, which was a weekend.

-Paul

barrytrot · March 20, 2012 2:29AM

<< A lot of people on the boards are skiddish shipping a package with that value, so it probably went Registered, which isn't really trackable anyways. I would give them a couple more days just in case they have had a life outside the boards for the last 3 days, which was a weekend.

-Paul >>

Nothing USPS is truly trackable but you can give the package number via a PM pretty easily. If that hasn't been sent the seller isn't due his duty.

derryb · March 20, 2012 2:31AM

If seller is not responding I would open a paypal claim, that will motivate seller to talk to you. If you paid with gift payment and cheated paypal out of their fee they will not be there to protect you.

When dealing with BST sellers best to check their references. The longer they have been selling on BST, the less references I check.

Ahrensdad · March 20, 2012 2:38AM

<< A lot of people on the boards are skiddish shipping a package with that value, so it probably went Registered, which isn't really trackable anyways. I would give them a couple more days just in case they have had a life outside the boards for the last 3 days, which was a weekend.

-Paul >>

In my experience, when I ship registered, I get a tracking number to provide the buyer. I think a best practive is to ALWAYS provide a tracking number. I think a best practice is to respond promply to PM's, even if the answer is I don't have an answer. I agree with Paul that a little patience may be warrented as the last three days was a weekend, and I know of many people that are traveling back from spring break vacations and college campus visits with kids. Having said that, if I were in the middle of a transaction, I would let the other side know that I will be away from from the forums and let them know when I would respond to messages. Maybe you're seller just didn't think to do that because they already shipped. Hopefully your seller will come up for air shortly (sounds like they've communicated well so far) and provide answers.

123cents · March 20, 2012 2:48AM

If he will not provide a tracking number at this late date, I would file a Paypal dispute.

BAJJERFAN · March 20, 2012 3:21AM

<< A lot of people on the boards are skiddish shipping a package with that value, so it probably went Registered, which isn't really trackable anyways. I would give them a couple more days just in case they have had a life outside the boards for the last 3 days, which was a weekend.

-Paul >>

Skiddish, I like that!

No real need to be skittish about sending a valuable package. While registered isn't fully trackable, it may or may not be partially trackable. At the very least it informs your buyer that you sent it. Funny thing I mentioned the other day to a postal clerk that the reason the UPS won't let you track insured mail is that they wouldn't be able to sell you any of those other unnecessary and duplicate services like DC and sig conf.
As far as registered goes, they don't necessarily want you to know where it is.

fastfreddie · March 20, 2012 3:21AM

If I sold that much in $ to you I would go out of my way to check all my email, PM's to make sure you were happy; including a registered number that can only be traced internally by the PO. File a Paypal claim to avoid any more frustration! If it was sent registered it could take a while. I had a package lost registered for 79 days!! Come to find out that it was sent to a closed sorting facility; had to be tracked down and re-routed by the PO. There is no excuse for not responding to your PM's unless they're in the hospital or run over by a car - and even then they can still use their 'smart' phone.

PerryHall · March 20, 2012 3:21AM

If I'm in the middle of a transaction and I'm going to be out of town for a few days without any computer access (very, very unlikely), I'll let the other party know I'll be incommunicado for awhile and at least give them my cell phone number. This is just common courtesy. I'd give him until the end of the week and then out him if he hasn't responded to your e-mails. Can we assume this seller is an active poster here and that he's been here for awhile?

keyman64 · March 20, 2012 3:26AM

I would probably contact PayPal at this point. If that doesn't wake him up then hopefully you can get your money back in short order. Good luck!

nibanny · March 20, 2012 3:31AM

I would wait until the end of the week but it is unacceptable and very unprofessional that a $1900 transaction does not have any follow up for 12 days!
I usually provide the buyer with my phone number when the transaction is over few hundred bucks.

PS: please keep in mind that it is now forbidden to out a fellow member. If the transaction goes south, send a PM to one of the moderators.

Bochiman · March 20, 2012 3:55AM

Due to a foot injury, I just took 2 weeks getting an empty (OGP) box to a board member....Value <$15.
I felt bad enough....but, I kept him updated and he was quite understanding and patient and not a complaint. I just got to where I could walk a bit more and even standing was too much...until the last few days/week.
(note: If you are ever on crutches, KEEP THEM! and have them handy. Luckily, I had some at home already, so when I was hurt 2 weeks ago, I was prepared).

In this case, if it were for that much, I think communication is still key. Now, does the person have a reputation here? Good/bad/indifferent?
Do they have their profile active (you don't)? Not necessarily for any explicit identifying information, but rather to see when they were last online here.

Do you have additional personal information? Can you try calling? Was it supposed to be shipped to you registered? As already mentioned, many of us ship items of that value "registered" and that, while supersafe, can take awhile to traverse the USPS system.

Do you know anyone that the person "knows" on the boards, that you could politely inquire to?
For instance, if it were me, I would suggest going to Swampboy or Lakesammman as both have met me and live relatively close. If I were hit by a bus, they would likely have seen it in the local news/paper and let you know.

$1900 isn't chump change, so I won't make any jokes, and I do wish you the best. Again, I would start with seeing if you can find out if they have been online these boards in that time (and, also, do a search to see if they have posted and what they may have posted........at times, when I am traveling, I may be "online" but I may just be on my phone or doing a quick check and not hitting the PMs "until later, when I get home and can use a real computer".).

ziggy29 · March 20, 2012 4:03AM

<< I would probably contact PayPal at this point. If that doesn't wake him up then hopefully you can get your money back in short order. Good luck! >>

Could PayPal even start processing such a claim before the USPS would even start taking claims for lost Registered Mail (which I think is 15 days)?

As for not responding to e-mail, particularly if we're talking about an expensive item I think the seller is ethically obligated to let the buyer know if they will be unable to respond to e-mail for a period of time so they don't assume that lack of response means they have been scammed.

PerryHall · March 20, 2012 4:04AM

<< PS: please keep in mind that it is now forbidden to out a fellow member. If the transaction goes south, send a PM to one of the moderators. >>

I don't see this in any of the rules. I can't imagine PCGS wanting to protect the identity of someone who sells an expensive coin set and then doesn't deliver it to the buyer. In any event, anyone interested could use the PM function to request this information.

mrpaseo · March 20, 2012 4:06AM

<< 12 days sounds like the time to sound the alarm to me if the person hasn't responded at all for 3 days. >>

Funny, my first thought was 12 days, 3 hours, 16 minutes... But three days is just as good I guess.

Seriously, I think 14 days is long enough wait. This will offer anyone enough time to overcome the emotional distraught of a family emergency and bring them back to grounds and their responsibilities. The fact of life is... stuff happens and sometimes priorities are changed on a moments notice.

Patience is a virtue, as with every transaction, I hope this one comes to fruition with both parties happy.

Best of luck,
Ray

nibanny · March 20, 2012 4:12AM

<< 

<< PS: please keep in mind that it is now forbidden to out a fellow member. If the transaction goes south, send a PM to one of the moderators. >>

I don't see this in any of the rules. I can't imagine PCGS wanting to protect the identity of someone who sells an expensive coin set and then doesn't deliver it to the buyer. In any event, anyone interested could use the PM function to request this information. >>

FYI, you have probably missed it

There were other threads about it but I can't find them.

Timbuk3 · March 20, 2012 4:25AM

Very uncomfortable situation
to be in. Hope everything
works out for you !!!!

BAJJERFAN · March 20, 2012 4:31AM

<< 

<< I would probably contact PayPal at this point. If that doesn't wake him up then hopefully you can get your money back in short order. Good luck! >>

Could PayPal even start processing such a claim before the USPS would even start taking claims for lost Registered Mail (which I think is 15 days)?

As for not responding to e-mail, particularly if we're talking about an expensive item I think the seller is ethically obligated to let the buyer know if they will be unable to respond to e-mail for a period of time so they don't assume that lack of response means they have been scammed. >>

Unless they provided some other sort of tracking, registered don't mean squat to PP. It can be proof of shipping however.

crazyhounddog · March 20, 2012 4:33AM

<< If seller is not responding I would open a paypal claim, that will motivate seller to talk to you. If you paid with gift payment and cheated paypal out of their fee they will not be there to protect you.

When dealing with BST sellers best to check their references. The longer they have been selling on BST, the less references I check. >>

Dead on....Joe

PerryHall · March 20, 2012 4:39AM

<< 

<< 

<< PS: please keep in mind that it is now forbidden to out a fellow member. If the transaction goes south, send a PM to one of the moderators. >>

I don't see this in any of the rules. I can't imagine PCGS wanting to protect the identity of someone who sells an expensive coin set and then doesn't deliver it to the buyer. In any event, anyone interested could use the PM function to request this information. >>

FYI, you have probably missed it

There were other threads about it but I can't find them. >>

Thanks. I must have missed that. So, apparently if there is a scammer ripping people off on the BST we aren't allowed to warn others. I guess the BST forum is now a more dangerous place to buy from.

jesbroken · March 20, 2012 5:19AM

I can remember a few years back, when a BST sale had went south, it was brought up on the forum and usually someone knew the seller, contacted
them and all was made right with the world. Now we are unable to mention such an occurrence and for that and other, more to do with the times, the BST
no longer holds the sales potential that it once did. It also seems like, with less sales, more problems are popping up. Just something else to add to the
good ol' days list.
Jim

Batman23 · March 20, 2012 5:20AM

I would expect that these heavy beasts were sent Registered Mail for the cheapest shipping price with the most secure delivery method. That said, I have seen Registered take several weeks to a month, depending on how far it has to go. I don't expect to get Registered for at least two weeks.

I agree that communication is key and that a shipping number should have been PM'd after it was mailed. Three days over a weekend isn't a real long time for being away from a computer if you have a family outing. A note before leaving would have helped of course.

I would wait until the end of the month before I was concerned about the arrival if it was sent Registered. I would wait a week on the lack of communications before I got too excited. Then act accordingly depending which one happens first.

jmdm1194 · March 20, 2012 5:24AM

Thank You everyone for your responses and insight. I did pay with paypal normal so I am protected by them and even within paypal I used a credit card so I should be good. I was kinda hoping that this post would also help the trading partner on the BST transaction step forward which to this point it has not. I am going to let this soak until tomorrow morning before I open the dispute to give the seller the extreme benefit of the doubt. My big question now is if this whole thing blows up and the seller never responds and I have to use the dispute process to get my money back, can I post who it is on these boards or is that a no no?

Thanks, Jeremy

pf70collector · March 20, 2012 5:25AM

Registered does not take that long if you are on the same side of the country. i.e. like both are on the east coast. Opposite coasts is usually 5-6 Business Days.

jesbroken · March 20, 2012 5:29AM

Big NO!NO!

jmdm1194 · March 20, 2012 5:31AM

<< Big NO!NO! >>

Ok, I actually just re read the thread and found reference posted by Don Willis. I will just contact the moderator once this is done with the facts and paypal findings and let them decide what to do with the member. Thanks again to everyone!!

Jeremy

PerryHall · March 20, 2012 5:32AM

Whenever I bought anything on the BST, the seller has always notified me when the package was shipped so that I could be on the lookout for it. I thought this was the normal SOP here.

JamesMurray · March 20, 2012 5:44AM

I didnt understand the new rule either Perry when it appeared , it's giving the conmen free license to do just as they please without fear of being exposed on the forum.

TomB · March 20, 2012 5:45AM

The seller has shown poor communication.

PerryHall · March 20, 2012 5:57AM

<< I didnt understand the new rule either Perry when it appeared , it's giving the conmen free license to do just as they please without fear of being exposed on the forum. >>

Hopefully if the con-men are reported to the moderators they can investigate and take away their posting privileges if so warranted.

johnny9434 · March 20, 2012 6:07AM

<< If he will not provide a tracking number at this late date, I would file a Paypal dispute. >>

dont waste to much time if seller is not co operating. i do hope all is well with seller and they are not ill or something as well. jmo

LindeDad · March 20, 2012 6:55AM

Posts like this make one wonder if it even worth the trouble to sell on the BST any more. Besides getting low balled most of the time now the scammers have free reign as Iforum ID's are easy to get.

BTW good luck when I had a person not deliver what I bought I was able to get help on this forum to make him change his mind.

coinman23885 · March 20, 2012 7:02AM

<< If I'm in the middle of a transaction and I'm going to be out of town for a few days without any computer access (very, very unlikely), I'll let the other party know I'll be incommunicado for awhile and at least give them my cell phone number. This is just common courtesy. I'd give him until the end of the week and then out him if he hasn't responded to your e-mails. Can we assume this seller is an active poster here and that he's been here for awhile? >>

+1

coinman23885 · March 20, 2012 7:10AM

<< 

<< I didnt understand the new rule either Perry when it appeared , it's giving the conmen free license to do just as they please without fear of being exposed on the forum. >>

Hopefully if the con-men are reported to the moderators they can investigate and take away their posting privileges if so warranted. >>

The moderators are very good at handling these matters; I alerted them to a potential scammer that I interacted with on another forum, and the moderators were quick to act to protect the BST community here. I have no qualms whatsoever with the way PCGS handles these sorts of things.

PerryHall · March 20, 2012 7:14AM

I think that the BST is still quite safe if you only buy from active participants with fairly high post counts that have been forum members here for a fairly long time. Also, I would never spend more than I could afford to lose.

Bochiman · March 20, 2012 7:24AM

I am going out on a limb here, but I think it will show up and that the issue is a "not-so-active" seller who doesn't understand the board's nuances about communication.

wondercoin · March 20, 2012 7:27AM

"I think that the BST is still quite safe if you only buy from active participants with fairly high post counts that have been forum members here for a fairly long time. Also, I would never spend more than I could afford to lose."

(846) problem-free exchanges / deals on the BST board for me thus far ... real simple formula ... if I sell something, it ships the next day ... if I buy something, my check goes out next business day after the goods arrive or are "checked in" (e.g. sealed sets that need to be opened under the cameras).

Wondercoin

PerryHall · March 20, 2012 7:38AM

<< ......if I buy something, my check goes out next business day after the goods arrive or are "checked in" (e.g. sealed sets that need to be opened under the cameras).

Wondercoin >>

For most of us buyers, paying after receiving the merchandise is not an option. Sellers usually want to get paid before shipping in almost every case unless they know you and trust you well.

jmdm1194 · March 20, 2012 7:46AM

<< Posts like this make one wonder if it even worth the trouble to sell on the BST any more. Besides getting low balled most of the time now the scammers have free reign as Iforum ID's are easy to get. BTW good luck when I had a person not deliver what I bought I was able to get help on this forum to make him change his mind. >>

I have to say besides this one instance I have had great success on the BST boards. Thanks to all the PM's that I have received over this thread. As a result I have found someone who knows the individual and can vouch for them, plus they have given me a new means to contact the person. I will keep this thread posted.

Jeremy

WinPitcher · March 20, 2012 7:50AM

Why is it when you are talking about sending the money the other party
seems to be at his/her comp continuously answering every incoming Pm
within seconds, yet once money is in hand they have trouble being near a comp?

From what you have said (sorry only read the OP and the first few posts) I'd have filed
a dispute with PP by now.

crazyhounddog · March 20, 2012 7:52AM

<< 

<< Posts like this make one wonder if it even worth the trouble to sell on the BST any more. Besides getting low balled most of the time now the scammers have free reign as Iforum ID's are easy to get. BTW good luck when I had a person not deliver what I bought I was able to get help on this forum to make him change his mind. >>

I have to say besides this one instance I have had great success on the BST boards. Thanks to all the PM's that I have received over this thread. As a result I have found someone who knows the individual and can vouch for them, plus they have given me a new means to contact the person. I will keep this thread posted.

Jeremy >>

Hey now....That's great news, I sure hope it all works out for ya.....Joe

ebaybuyer · March 20, 2012 8:54AM

"probably went Registered, which isn't really trackable anyways" <<< who told you that ? i have done very few BST transactions here based on the fact that i cant give my coins away for free. the few that i have done have gone flawlessly,

jmdm1194 · March 20, 2012 9:20AM

To the credit of the great members of this forum or maybe just pure coincidence I received a PM from the other party this evening with a huge sincere apology (with no lame excuses) and express tracking for the sets. A couple people stepped up privately and vouched for the individual and I am happy with the outcome of this thread. I will close this thread with an update once I receive the sets. Thanks again for everyone's help!!

Jeremy

lasvegasteddy · March 20, 2012 10:08AM

hope this is the case for you too

anytime i begin to wonder if i should elevate my level of concern to a action...it seems the next day my insecurity of it all slaps me in the face as it happens

hopefully this resolves for the best is all i can offer...hopefully the seller is ok as with his immediate family too

send off your telly # and ask for his

SlvrandGld · March 20, 2012 10:40AM

Glad to hear you finally recieved some communication!

TwoSides2aCoin · March 20, 2012 11:23AM

Gee , this thread started at 9:20 A.M. and the problem was resolved by 4:20 P.M.
If we could just remember the power of communication, we could have world peace.

crypto79 · March 20, 2012 11:31AM

How long before I should sound the alarms on a BST transaction

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