The horns of a dilemma, or a tale of two Pine Trees...(conclusion - updated 3/2)

mbogoman · February 22, 2012 2:11AM

I have managed to pluck these two Pine Tree shillings raw over the past year and a half at below market prices and both are now slabbed. I really have room for only one in my collection and these two are almost the same (both small planchet, same Noe variety), with "almost" being the key word. Each has its own plusses and minuses. One I will keep; one will fund the purchase of a sixpence. I know, this is a good problem to have, but if it were you, which one would you keep and why?

The first one pictured is very original, crusty (almost too crusty), charcoal gray and well centered and resides in an NGC slab with a VF20 grade.

The second one is on its way back to me today and resides in a PCGS Genuine-98 slab with a VF Details grade. It has better surface characteristics and is more eye-appealing than the first (although the True View image "juices" it a bit more than real life), is also well centered with complete legends, but it was clipped post-mint by some guy back in the 1600s. The third photo is a quick picture of #2 in its new PCGS slab and gives a better idea of the true colors.

keyman64 · February 22, 2012 2:30AM

I would sell both, get one you are happy with and then get the sixpence.

MsMorrisine · February 22, 2012 2:30AM

better eye appeal is subjective and the clip is distracting

MilkmanDan · February 22, 2012 2:32AM

How does the second one look in hand? Is the trueview pretty accurate, or is it doing the coin favors? I'd go with the eye appeal, a coin that old doesn't bother me as much in a gennie holder. The first one is a little too dark for my taste.

MidLifeCrisis · February 22, 2012 2:36AM

<< <i>I would sell both, get one you are happy with and then get the sixpence. >>

This.

ColonialCoinUnion · February 22, 2012 2:38AM

Tough call.

Any genuine Pine Tree is a prize to own, but since you asked here is my no holds barred opinion:

The second one is more attractive (though that is at least partly due to the nice PCGS TrueView image), but a clipped and underweight piece has a price ceiling in the marketplace that is far below a full-weight specimen. Also, that piece seems to have some damage / intentional scratches / graffiti-looking marks on the reverse below the denomination that I would guess account for the PCGS 98 code.

The first one is graded, but as you say it is pretty dark and has some pretty noticeable scratches on the obv. I think it is very doubtful that would cross to PCGS as a VF20 in my opinion if that is a consideration for you.

At the end of the day, I would probably keep the first one based on the weight and because an accidental scratch is preferable to an intentional mark.

lordmarcovan · February 22, 2012 2:56AM

Man, that's a dilemma I wouldn't mind having.

DorkGirl · February 22, 2012 3:04AM

<< <i>Man, that's a dilemma I wouldn't mind having.

>>

Me too!

Unknown · February 22, 2012 3:07AM

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SaorAlba · February 22, 2012 3:17AM

Collectors of hammered era coinage are pretty familiar with clipping. It can be difficult to find specimens of certain coins that have not been clipped when they were circulating, particularly hammered gold. Yes, underweight specimens of coins do trade at a discount, but clipping is just going to be a factor in a lot of coins from that era. I myself don't find the second specimen in the PCGS holder particularly unattractive - rather the opposite. I would myself be proud to own it, I have myself been looking for a Massachusetts-Bay coin to represent that era in my collection.

Clipping would not have been done to the coin outside of the era in which it circulated. Clipping, the shaving, sweating(shaking in a bag) or cutting the edge of a coin was fairly common - a means of acquiring a bit of silver. English coins from that time are most often clipped to some degree. Indeed finding something not otherwise post mint modified is rather unusual.

OldEastside · February 22, 2012 3:22AM

Tough Call, I myself can be greedy when faced with a dilemma
such as yours, and I'd keep em both, so I'm sure you'll do the
right thing

Steve

mbogoman · February 22, 2012 3:48AM

Thanks for all your comments. They are really appreciated. It is interesting to see how they run the gamut depending on one's perspective. To be honest, I bought the second (the one now in the PCGS Gennie slab) with full intent to sell it. After receiving it, it started to grow on me. I'm still leaning towards keeping #1, but #2 is still up in the air.

Keep those opinions coming!!!

Thanks again,

Bochiman · February 22, 2012 4:22AM

If it were me, and, personally, I still want one of these but I don't have one yet, I would sell the first one (it doesn't appeal to me, at least from the pictures).
For the 2nd one, if the price was right, I would likely keep it...UNTIL I was able to get a problem free one that I liked even more.

Problem coins have a place...if the price is right and/or if a non-problem example is too hard to get. Else, if it bothers you now, it will continue.

ambro51 · February 22, 2012 4:48AM

Please let us know the outcome. Choices like this are difficult but the "wow" factor of the new piece in hand will ease the feeling of loss. One factor I'd consider is which of these two is a better visual companion for the sixpence?

mbogoman · February 22, 2012 8:10AM

Just added a photo of the second one in its PCGS slab (just arrived minutes ago). It gives a little better idea of the true color...

ColonialCoinUnion · February 22, 2012 8:20AM

<< <i>Just added a photo of the second one in its PCGS slab (just arrived minutes ago). It gives a little better idea of the true color... >>

I thought the 2nd one was light, but I was thinking somewhere in the low 60's. At 55 grains, I definitely keep the first one.

mbogoman · March 2, 2012 1:29AM

Some of you requested that I post an update, so here it is. I went with my gut and consensus opinion and kept the NGC VF20. As originally planned, I put the Genuine-98 up for sale on the Bay and it sold yesterday. Now I've got a good stake towards a sixpence to complete my Pine Tree trio. Just got to find a nice VF example that looks right and is in my range...

Thanks again for all your opinions and comments. They were very helpful in re-affirming my decision.

TGIF - a celebratory Stone ale will be consumed this evening!

The horns of a dilemma, or a tale of two Pine Trees...(conclusion - updated 3/2)

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