I have received a cease-and-desist order on this thread. Please let it sink.
lordmarcovan
Posts: 43,888 ✭✭✭✭✭
UPDATE: I have been asked to cease discussing this topic. This was posted to keep everyone up to date and to determine how to proceed with the mess it became, but now it's threatening my very presence on these forums, so please let this sink. I'll only post further updates if I have to.
An hour or two ago I got a phone call from the missing Laurent Gurewitch (aka "Laurentyvan"), an old Darkside friend and the initiator of this embarrassingly messy but incredibly generous "LordM Dig Trip To England" thing.
This was the most recent thread regarding the issue.
True to form, I obsessively tried to keep that last thread's summary updated for a while but fell behind.
If you've followed this saga, it's time for an important update.
(I'll leave you to extrapolate the backstory from other threads if you're coming in late to it all.)
In a nutshell, Laurent has agreed to release the funds that were collected to me via certified check, in return for some kind of letter releasing him from further responsibility, as he has too much else to deal with. I think that is perfectly reasonable.
Laurent, as I suspected, was just dealing with his own life difficulties and unsurprisingly to me, it appears he has NOT taken the money and run, but rather had just dropped off the radar. He has had major health issues and other life issues and it seems he is not a happy man these days. I certainly did not to wish to add to his burden or antagonize him after all he did for me. Nor did I wish to come off as the least bit ungrateful in our conversation and I think I conveyed that pretty well.
So, here we are at Square One again, maybe, trying to assemble the scattered pieces and figure out what I should do.
I think a poll is in order.
Please vote only if you were a contributor or if you've followed the story. Otherwise, just use the "neutral" poll option to view the results.
Once I receive the check, I'm left to decide how to reimburse those who donated, and how, since records of which pledges were paid and which simply remained pledges have been lost. Laurent's Hotmail account got hacked and shut down. I suffered the same thing a few months ago, and the hijackers used my email to send icky stuff to everyone in my contact list. Laurent's computer also died and I get the impression he might not even own one anymore, or go on the Internet much, anyway. I offered to link him up to all these discussions but he declined, and asked that I send the release letter and check request via snailmail. I have his address and telephone number.
The only definitive list of pledges or contributors that remains is on the old blog.
I did try to figure out the status of some of the pledges in the last thread, but heavens, I can't keep up with the PMs and posts and threads, and so maybe a poll here is the best way to go.
What do I do now?
Should I ...
ONE, forget about the whole thing and refund all the money to everyone who donated, assuming they can be found and the claims can be sorted out, which will be a nightmare?
TWO, refund the money to those who speak up, but then what about the remainder, if any?
Or THREE, should I resume planning for the trip (possibly made easier by the release of the funds)?
Finally having custody of the donations might light a fire under my arse and get me to stop fiddlefartin' around and actually DO something, like put down a deposit on a detecting tour. Such a package tour seems to be the way to go since they would handle all the site permissions, lodging and transportation, export licensing, and so on. But these trips are understandably expensive, and often require a sizeable deposit, which I haven't had. And the deposit tends to be fully or partially nonrefundable, so it's a real commitment. Then there's my long lapsed passport, my own physical condition, my detecting equipment, and all that other blahblahblah to consider. It will be a huge undertaking if I am to take this journey and blog about it, especially if I do live feeds from the field.
Once the money passes into my custody, there's also a huge added burden of responsibility on my part, and I will no longer be able to say, "hey, this was all done in my name and I have no true stake in it". When I'm given the keys and put in the driver's seat, I'm terrified I'll drive the thing off a cliff. I don't know what happened in Cameron Kiefer's personal life that led to his tragic self-inflicted end, but something like this going wrong would have a severe depressive effect on me. I suffer from bipolar disorder (which is why I'm always so frenetically manic or depressively absent around here.) Screwing this up would plunge me into a deep depression and while I wouldn't kill myself like Cam did, I'd just as soon not experience that, thank you very much.
So the responsibility frightens me.
But the dream has never entirely died. I just let it slip into mothballs and that's part of how this whole thing got neglected for so long and got messy.
It sure would be fun to put the coil to the soil in Merry Olde England and dig up some medieval and ancient coins and relics with the eyes of the forum upon me. I'd try to keep you updated on every rusty bottlecap and every bent nail.
But part of me wonders if I shouldn't do it with my own finances, which, barring family assistance, means the trip might take place around 2034 or so. Or should I just shut up, quit whining and worrying, accept the forum's generosity, and DO THIS THING?
Wow.
An hour or two ago I got a phone call from the missing Laurent Gurewitch (aka "Laurentyvan"), an old Darkside friend and the initiator of this embarrassingly messy but incredibly generous "LordM Dig Trip To England" thing.
This was the most recent thread regarding the issue.
True to form, I obsessively tried to keep that last thread's summary updated for a while but fell behind.
If you've followed this saga, it's time for an important update.
(I'll leave you to extrapolate the backstory from other threads if you're coming in late to it all.)
In a nutshell, Laurent has agreed to release the funds that were collected to me via certified check, in return for some kind of letter releasing him from further responsibility, as he has too much else to deal with. I think that is perfectly reasonable.
Laurent, as I suspected, was just dealing with his own life difficulties and unsurprisingly to me, it appears he has NOT taken the money and run, but rather had just dropped off the radar. He has had major health issues and other life issues and it seems he is not a happy man these days. I certainly did not to wish to add to his burden or antagonize him after all he did for me. Nor did I wish to come off as the least bit ungrateful in our conversation and I think I conveyed that pretty well.
So, here we are at Square One again, maybe, trying to assemble the scattered pieces and figure out what I should do.
I think a poll is in order.
Please vote only if you were a contributor or if you've followed the story. Otherwise, just use the "neutral" poll option to view the results.
Once I receive the check, I'm left to decide how to reimburse those who donated, and how, since records of which pledges were paid and which simply remained pledges have been lost. Laurent's Hotmail account got hacked and shut down. I suffered the same thing a few months ago, and the hijackers used my email to send icky stuff to everyone in my contact list. Laurent's computer also died and I get the impression he might not even own one anymore, or go on the Internet much, anyway. I offered to link him up to all these discussions but he declined, and asked that I send the release letter and check request via snailmail. I have his address and telephone number.
The only definitive list of pledges or contributors that remains is on the old blog.
I did try to figure out the status of some of the pledges in the last thread, but heavens, I can't keep up with the PMs and posts and threads, and so maybe a poll here is the best way to go.
What do I do now?
Should I ...
ONE, forget about the whole thing and refund all the money to everyone who donated, assuming they can be found and the claims can be sorted out, which will be a nightmare?
TWO, refund the money to those who speak up, but then what about the remainder, if any?
Or THREE, should I resume planning for the trip (possibly made easier by the release of the funds)?
Finally having custody of the donations might light a fire under my arse and get me to stop fiddlefartin' around and actually DO something, like put down a deposit on a detecting tour. Such a package tour seems to be the way to go since they would handle all the site permissions, lodging and transportation, export licensing, and so on. But these trips are understandably expensive, and often require a sizeable deposit, which I haven't had. And the deposit tends to be fully or partially nonrefundable, so it's a real commitment. Then there's my long lapsed passport, my own physical condition, my detecting equipment, and all that other blahblahblah to consider. It will be a huge undertaking if I am to take this journey and blog about it, especially if I do live feeds from the field.
Once the money passes into my custody, there's also a huge added burden of responsibility on my part, and I will no longer be able to say, "hey, this was all done in my name and I have no true stake in it". When I'm given the keys and put in the driver's seat, I'm terrified I'll drive the thing off a cliff. I don't know what happened in Cameron Kiefer's personal life that led to his tragic self-inflicted end, but something like this going wrong would have a severe depressive effect on me. I suffer from bipolar disorder (which is why I'm always so frenetically manic or depressively absent around here.) Screwing this up would plunge me into a deep depression and while I wouldn't kill myself like Cam did, I'd just as soon not experience that, thank you very much.
So the responsibility frightens me.
But the dream has never entirely died. I just let it slip into mothballs and that's part of how this whole thing got neglected for so long and got messy.
It sure would be fun to put the coil to the soil in Merry Olde England and dig up some medieval and ancient coins and relics with the eyes of the forum upon me. I'd try to keep you updated on every rusty bottlecap and every bent nail.
But part of me wonders if I shouldn't do it with my own finances, which, barring family assistance, means the trip might take place around 2034 or so. Or should I just shut up, quit whining and worrying, accept the forum's generosity, and DO THIS THING?
Wow.
0
Comments
Edit: I see there was a figure of $2700. That would more than cover a trip!
<< <i>No more new donations, please, unless a dire contingency should arise later. I feel nervous enough accepting what has already been so generously donated thus far. If this is a go, it's time to move on under my own initiative, and tap some promised family donations if I need further help. Passing the hat further after all this near-debacle would just be tacky on my part. But thanks. >>
First Class reply...Good Luck L.M. !
<< <i>What was the last known total of contributions/pledges?
Edit: I see there was a figure of $2700. That would more than cover a trip! >>
Very true , i fly back and forth regular and cost of return flights is gonna eat up that 700 but theres still 2k for hotels etc , if you make it to Scotland i can hook you up with the #1 metal detecting club , they get permission for vast tracts of land , gold and silver being commen finds.My brother is one of the founding members.
<< <i>G O ! >>
I agree!
I wanted to go to Greece forever and ever.. only after I bought the airline tickets and made some hotel reservations did I look back and say: "Wha, that was easy! I should have done this 10 years ago!"
Hence some of the nervousness.
<< <i>
<< <i>G O ! >>
I agree!
I wanted to go to Greece forever and ever.. only after I bought the airline tickets and made some hotel reservations did I look back and say: "Wha, that was easy! I should have done this 10 years ago!" >>
G O, LordM, G O !
8 Reales Madness Collection
I just voted my few shares for you to GO!!
I'd kick in some more if needed. You deserve to make this trip.
Best....
Take a look at this:
There's the late Chad Williford, aka SilverEagles92, discussing Oreville's sale of one of my old collections.
In that thread, Oreville was talking about setting up a "pay it forward" fund to help out forum members in need. (I'd just been laid off at the time, but didn't take any handouts.) Oreville has long been a numismatic godfather to me and a staunch supporter of this trip idea, as was young Chad, who was only 17 when he died. (I'd never even had an inkling that Chad was so young in the first place! He was wise beyond his years and great to do business with.)
And look there... in Chad's signature line... etched for eternity. MY name, and a statement of support for ME, and this trip. He was wearing that sigline when he passed away so unexpectedly in the spring of 2010, when the idea was beginning to get some momentum.
How's that for humbling, eh?
And yes, Chad was a donor who sent in funds.
So THAT, my friends, is one thing that brings a tear to my eye and a resolve that if I ever DO get around to this journey, it's going to be in honor of Chad's memory.
Successful BST transactions with:CollectorsCoins, farthing, Filacoins, LordMarcovan, Duki, Spoon, Jinx86, ubercollector, hammered54
LochNess and ProfHaroldHill
john
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
I don't have a very strong opinion about whether LM should go or not except he
definitely needs to either go or quit talking about it sooner rather than later.
I have followed this from the beginning. I look forward greatly to his summary re-
ports and nearly as much to not hearing about it any more.
Go! If you can go, then go. Don'tcha know when you're not wanted.
doesn't have the net yet, do they?)
But if the money is indeed to be released to me, that changes the whole ballgame and I thought this development did need to be posted, as people were waiting to hear.
Right now is perfect. In fact, a dig colleague of mine just showed up on my doorstep this morning with another incredible early United States coin, dug on the Old Post Road right near where I live. (More on this later- I'm supposed to be working on the pictures of that as we speak, but keep getting sidetracked.) He says the site is cleared and I should get out there before the other relic hunters pick it clean or it gets overgrown and snakey or too hot and buggy to go. I was tempted to go today but it started raining as soon as he said that.
You are a gentleman.
This forum has been around for many years and you've been here all those years.
Since I've been here I've continually noticed you bringing a sense of comaraderie to the place with your posts.
I'm asking you not to flag now.
The "Send LordM To England" movement needn't be a saga.
It's a story.
Please write it.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
These are the types of things I largely stay out of, but I have read the saga from the start.
First off, I hope Laurent gets to being better.
Secondly, you have proven your honesty and being a stand-up fellow, over and over again, and on this as well.
I would say that, the funds were sent in in good faith and that you do deserve a vacation. It would a working vacation
I have no desire to go to the UK but it would be cool to treasurehunt so I think you should do it. If you can make it work with your other obligations, go for it.
Hopefully it is enough to do it. Get your passport updated and ready ahead of time so you don't have to worry about expediting and the fees for that, and do it.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Europe isn't nearly so far away as you might think. Going there isn't all that more complicated than getting a flight to Orlando, San Diego, or Cleveland. You need a passport and the airfare is slightly more expensive. Buy well in advance and be flexible in dates and airports.
You can go with a collecting group, but my guess is that you might end up in some worked-over areas. There are plusses and minuses to either path. Personally, I'd go it alone and make it up as I go, but that's just my free-wheeling spirit. The cool think about being an American tourist is that people will generally give you the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to just another "dumb American". There are a great many places in the US that are more foreign to me than the majority of Europe. Sheesh, in England they even speak English - well, sortta.
If you do decide to go, I'd for sure spring for a share or two.
Seize the day!
Actually, I'll bet the contents of the dirt could be VERY interesting over there, aside from the dangerous stuff, of which there's bound to be plenty.
<< <i>I don't have in dog in this fight, but my advice is to go. Once you realize how easy it was the veiled unknown will seem pretty simple.
Europe isn't nearly so far away as you might think. Going there isn't all that more complicated than getting a flight to Orlando, San Diego, or Cleveland. You need a passport and the airfare is slightly more expensive. Buy well in advance and be flexible in dates and airports.
You can go with a collecting group, but my guess is that you might end up in some worked-over areas. There are plusses and minuses to either path. Personally, I'd go it alone and make it up as I go, but that's just my free-wheeling spirit. The cool think about being an American tourist is that people will generally give you the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to just another "dumb American". There are a great many places in the US that are more foreign to me than the majority of Europe. Sheesh, in England they even speak English - well, sortta.
If you do decide to go, I'd for sure spring for a share or two.
Seize the day! >>
Well said. Just go, enjoy yourself, find some interesting coins or artifacts, and bring us some wonderful tales of your adventure.
in the numismatic hobby community --- always generous to others, sharing your knowledge and
experience, giving coins away, etc. You'll have a team of fans and readers back here in the New
World cheering you on. I say "Go East, young man --- east to England!"
<< <i>Do you think this passport will still work? >>
Passports are only good 10 YEARS from date of issue.
are you sure...no new shares???
"GO"
you're such a staple here i'm surprized pcgs isn't matching funds to ensure tha dig is diggy
Once you receive the funds from Laurent:
The money would be set aside for its original purpose, except for those VERIFIED contributors who personally wish to have THEIR donation refunded. That way the lion's share would go towards its original purpose, but you would also accommodate those individuals who might want their money back or have issues.
Since the records are gone at Laurent's end, it would be up to the contributor wanting a refund to substantiate the original donation (copy of canceled check, printout of PayPal payment page, whatever).
Set up a reasonable timeframe (30-60 days) for all who might have issues to contact you personally to make a claim, after which point it's a done deal.
Since I had promised to contribute but never received an actual payment request, I personally have no axe to grind either way.
However...
When the point comes that you actually book the trip, I expect you to let us all know in advance, as I WILL make a contribution at that time, whether you want one or not. It's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity; while I personally will never be able to travel overseas, I would love to chip in to help a good guy have the best experience possible.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
Olmanjon
http://bit.ly/bxi7py
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
eBay Store
DPOTD Jan 2005, Meet the Darksiders
I am a paid in contributor of $60 ... I voted JUST DO IT !!
I agree with Olmanjon (sorry I'm on a new page and I can't check name spelling--and spelling is the most creative thing about me--yay spellcheck!).
Hopefully this will take some pressure off Laurentyvan--I also had many interactions with him and am 100% sure of his very awesome intentions in all this. I am sad his real life issues became such a distraction and I am relieved that he still was able to keep everything separated. That was surely difficult. As posted above (see I won't try and spell this time) I hope that turning the funds over to you becomes one less pressure for him.
As for you--I also agree that if anyone wishes a return then do so. This may have left a bad taste/negative feeling after all. Otherwise I say do with the $$ what you see fit--and it darn well better be a fun trip!
My advice--take this in baby steps as though you were going to run a marathon.
Take the first step--get your passport.
Second--make a list of your equipment.
Take an inventory of your own health and work out ideas to keep yourself on a healthy track--make a list of 5 things you will do. Keep it simple--I have no idea what will work for you, but do something like New Years Resolution--floss every night, no sugar drinks, do counseling, no snacking after 8 pm, start walking a mile three times a week (and go from there). You get the idea--and if weight is a concern for you--do not use a scale as a barometer--change your habits is the goal, not your weight. If you blow it --take it to heart but don't let it absorb your every waking thought. I totally made these up as I don't know exactly what your health concerns are--I only saw that you mentioned them (AND you called yourself fatboy in the poll
Then find one of those companies that takes care of all of the paperwork. Don't put down a deposit yet.
Make a detailed list of what is covered in the trip and what is not and what the costs are.
If you are into planning then try to see how you could do it on your own (my husband would thrive on that, I would hate it--I'd like to buy a plane ticket and have a trip coordinator do the rest).
Figure out how close you are...and when you are about 85% there (and nothing looming on the horizon) THEN figure out a good date for the trip.
Once you have a date--then put down the deposit.
Then let us know so we can be your cheerleaders--just like if you were doing a marathon.
As I have no record of actually paying my pledge please keep me on the list of one who plans to keep the pledge. Not a charity, but a way to live vicariously through others. PLUS if you are able to get the trip done while I am still stationed in Europe then I will have an excuse to get to England with my family and we can hoist a beer
Cathy
<< <i>If you can get a flight to Kabul, I can provide you with adequate berthing and some nice spots to dig. I hope your metal detector can differentiate between a coin and lots of unexploded ordnance! :-) >>
If you would PM me your Pay Pal address , and you feel cheated, I will reimburse you the full amount pledged. I have an ex wife that might fit your mold as the perfect woman. ; ) She exploded without any means of detection. I wouldn't even have to breathe and she would just "blow up". LOL
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>If you can get a flight to Kabul, I can provide you with adequate berthing and some nice spots to dig. I hope your metal detector can differentiate between a coin and lots of unexploded ordnance! :-) >>
If you would PM me your Pay Pal address , and you feel cheated, I will reimburse you the full amount pledged. I have an ex wife that might fit your mold as the perfect woman. ; ) She exploded without any means of detection. I wouldn't even have to breathe and she would just "blow up". LOL >>
I'm sorry you apparently married one of my ex-wives. I should post their photos here as a public service so others won't suffer our fate!
<< <i>If you are into planning then try to see how you could do it on your own (my husband would thrive on that, I would hate it--I'd like to buy a plane ticket and have a trip coordinator do the rest).
Figure out how close you are...and when you are about 85% there (and nothing looming on the horizon) THEN figure out a good date for the trip.
Once you have a date--then put down the deposit. >>
Thanks, Cathy. I'm definitely with you on the buying the plane ticket and letting the coordinator(s) do the rest. Having to hash out the tiny details does NOT sound like fun to me, despite the meticulous nature of some of my numismatic projects here and the fact that I do sort of work in the travel (well, hotel) industry.
One thing about the deposit, though, is that these prearranged package tours fill up fast. They've got no shortage of Americans lined up to go dig in British soil. After the initial surge on this project, I did some checking on one tour I was most interested in, and found them booked up for the next season- months in advance of the actual event. In fact, with it being February now, it's almost certainly gonna be too late for a late-spring trip (I myself would never be ready in time for that anyway.) And I wouldn't be surprised if the summer was booked up as well- if there even are summer tours. Most of these tours take place on fallow farmers' fields, so they have to be fit into the agricultural season over there somehow.
<< <i>Well Lord M it has been quite an experience for all of us-especially you. It is fantastic that Laurent was able to contact you. Hopefully he will start to mend now that this is one more thing not on his mind. The original concept was a great idea coming from the imagination of Laurent. For this we will always thank him. I think that now it is time to put this baby to bed. Accept the check from Laurent-give back to anyone who wants there money returned-and accept anyone who would like to participate in getting you to England. Like someone else has said-"I will never get the chance to go to England but if you go I give live it through your eyes." The money donated to you is not charity. I believe the original concept was that if anything large was found then all of the donaters would share and share alike. Oviously with a large number of contributors this will not be great-but I don't think the majority of us care-we just want to send you there. As far as your health concerns-we all get older and the longer you put something off the harder it will be to do it. So in my heartfelt opinion--JUST GO.
Olmanjon >>
bob
(And that can be PM-ed to me.) I have received a cease-and-desist order on this topic.
I might update it later to show the status of the funds, but otherwise I need to let this sink. I only posted this thread because I was embarrassed by the whole thing that was done in my name having gotten out of hand. I do share some of the responsibility because I let it happen.
If and when the money is here I will offer a refund to anyone who wants it and will use the rest for its intended purpose if that is feasible.
Then let's let this slip off the forums. If and when the trip happens I'll start a blog on a separate site.
This is getting me into hot water.