Does PCGS do major varieties without attribution costs?

Billet7 · February 13, 2012 12:40PM

I always thought if you submitted a major variety under regular grading services, so long as the variety had a PCGS number associated with it, they would add the major variety to the holder...examples: 1831 Large Letters quarter, 1820/19 half dollar etc. etc.

Is this not the case?

I have submitted two distinct coins on two different occasions, both the same variety...and they have both been returned without the variety listing. To illustrate, they are both 1856-S/s seated quarters. I submitted both anticipating the variety listing, requested the variety by identifying it by the PCGS number, and in both cases it came back as a standard 1856-S.

They are both 1856-S/s variety coins, I guarantee it...no question about it.

Are these coins that have to be submitted with variety attribution in order to get major variety attribution?

Thanks for the help.

STONE · February 13, 2012 12:54PM

Sometimes there are special varieties which require the extra $24 attribution cost...something which you should check out before submitting.
Then again, many of the major, and sometimes a few minor varieties, which are obvious without much, if any, magnification don't require that
extra $24 attribution cost. In any event, I'm surprised PCGS customer service didn't try to contact you if they required the extra $24 for this
label, and if they don't require that extra cost, well then it's their fault and you SHOULD be entitled to compensation for their mistake!

DIMEMAN · February 13, 2012 12:55PM

If it's a major variety there is no cost. Like the 4 and 5 berry 1805 dimes.

DIMEMAN · February 13, 2012 12:59PM

I looked up the 56-S/s quarter and it should have came back 5441 and you should have put the 5441 on the form. If you put 5440 it's your fault.

Billet7 · February 13, 2012 1:09PM

There's the kicker, I put 5441 on the form, both times. When the form comes back it says 5441 on the PCGS line, and "1856-S/s 25C Large/Small S" in the description line, but the holder that came back says 5440. Why would they change it?

This has happened with two different coins, the first time I figured it was just an oversight, but now I am starting to wonder if it's something else.

Type2 · February 13, 2012 1:11PM

This is a tuff one if you are paying for a service then they should do there job not if you pay me more then i'll do it better. I know if i put on some tires and don't put on the lug nuts I would not see that customer any more. But that is just me thinking.

DIMEMAN · February 13, 2012 1:15PM

It should have come back 5441 with the variety on the holder. The only thing I can thing of.....is that they don't agree with you on the variety. If the coin is still there (PCGS) call and have them look again. If you are sure it is the variety.

Billet7 · February 13, 2012 1:25PM

100% positive it's the 1856-S/s. One of the two coins is harder to make out, but clearly the S/s, the other is about as plain as the nose on my face! In hand they are unmistakable.

They've both been sent to me already, so I can't have them take a second look.

Any advice on what to do?

DIMEMAN · February 13, 2012 1:28PM

Just went and looked at the LSQ with major varieties and there is not a slot for the 5441, so I assume the 56-S/s is a variety that needs the $24 fee. When in doubt I always ask BJ. Seems there is not a sure way to tell.

Billet7 · February 13, 2012 1:30PM

So if it has a PCGS number listed in the guide it isn't necessarily a major variety?

Billet7 · February 13, 2012 1:37PM

I see what you mean, it isn't listed as a major variety in the PCGS set registry, It's got to be an oversight. They list it as a variety that they grade, but they don't grade seated quarter varieties that aren't major varieties. From what I understand they don't do Briggs numbers. So the 1856-S/s is floating around in the ether? Why even have a number for the variety if they aren't going to use it?

Additionally, it's one of the most well known varieties of seated lib. quarters...why would it not be a major variety in the set?

DIMEMAN · February 13, 2012 1:39PM

NO, because the 5441 is in the Price guide but not in the LSQ with major varieties. I've had this problem with dimes and I always ask BJ to make sure. I don;t know if there is a way of telling by looking at something or not.

You will have to resubmit and pay the $24 fee + a $10 reholder fee. Unless you can talk them out of the reholder fee because you misunderstood.

Billet7 · February 13, 2012 1:42PM

I am blown away that the 1856-S/s is not listed in the variety set! CANNOT BELIEVE IT!!! It's like not putting the 1854 Huge O in there! or the 1842-O small date! My world has been rocked!

Billet7 · February 13, 2012 1:47PM

I would have paid the attribution fee had I known I needed to. Really wish there was a way to know what they consider a major variety...clearly it's not what I thought. Coins with PCGS numbers are not necessarily coins they certify without research.

DIMEMAN · February 13, 2012 1:48PM

Maybe it is an oversight. It would be worth a call to PCGS. I have had BJ fix problems in some dime sets.

Are you doing the complete set or just the with major variety set?

MilkmanDan · February 13, 2012 2:56PM

<< You will have to resubmit and pay the $24 fee + a $10 reholder fee. >>

Is that true? I thought that to get variety attribution, you had to re-submit for full grading. Can you really get variety attribution with just a re-holder? (great if so)

LanceNewmanOCC · February 13, 2012 4:18PM

<< 

<< You will have to resubmit and pay the $24 fee + a $10 reholder fee. >>

Is that true? I thought that to get variety attribution, you had to re-submit for full grading. Can you really get variety attribution with just a re-holder? (great if so) >>

from what i have gathered from personal experience and threads over the past year

last time i submitted a coin that was graded and only needed variety attribution no grading was needed nor re-holdering fee. the item was cracked out a new insert printed with the variety and shipped back out to me.

I've read threads since then that pcgs will start charging the $10 fee to re-holder for the majority of services that requires them to crack the item out and re-holder that is not the grade/regrade/cross services as you have to pay the normal grading fee anyway.

paying the extra $10 probably includes a couple other services as well and still excludes some others.
.

ModCrewman · February 13, 2012 10:38PM

What I've been told by customer service is if it's a major variety listed with a 4 digit PCGS number, there is no attribution fee required.

In your case, the Seated Quarter Listings show the 5441 number you say was indicated, and they should have attributed it as such, provided it was indeed that variety.

I'd contact customer service. Good luck.

DIMEMAN · February 13, 2012 10:39PM

Yes, a coin that is in a PCGS holder does not have to be regraded. And until last year only needed the $24 fee to get the variety attribution.

Now there is an additional $10 reholder fee.

MilkmanDan · February 13, 2012 10:45PM

<< Yes, a coin that is in a PCGS holder does not have to be regraded. And until last year only needed the $24 fee to get the variety attribution.

Now there is an additional $10 reholder fee. >>

Cool, thanks for the info.

DIMEMAN · February 13, 2012 10:56PM

Modcrewman - Just because the coin has a 4 digit number does NOT mean that it does not need the $24 fee. I know this for a fact.

MilkmanDan · February 13, 2012 11:00PM

<< Modcrewman - Just because the coin has a 4 digit number does mean that it does not need the $24 fee. I know this for a fact. >>

PCGS, if you're listening, this is an area that could REALLY use some clarification and better instructions!

ModCrewman · February 13, 2012 11:04PM

<< Modcrewman - Just because the coin has a 4 digit number does NOT mean that it does not need the $24 fee. I know this for a fact. >>

Is that what you meant?

Again, that is contrary to what I've been told by Customer Service 2x in the past.

DIMEMAN · February 13, 2012 11:22PM

Yes, that is what I meant. I edited it when I saw that I had left out the important word "NOT". I have been fighting this for years. I have resorted to asking BJ any time I am not sure.

I think, but not sure, that if the coin in question is NOT in the "with major varieties" set......it will need to get the $24 attribution fee.

WaterSport · February 14, 2012 12:34AM

Man you guys lost me somewhere here.

No matter what number you put on the form...if you did not drop the $24 in the total, you coin is coming back with a common, non-variety designated number.

Some coins have been determined by PCGS to be "major Varieties" Like a 55/55 double die. They will slab the coin with a regular grading fee. But you need to do your homework first to determine the coin you have will grade without a $24 attribution fee.

PCGS will grade just about any variety (again, for the $24 fee). However, it may come back with the words "minor variety" on the label if they do not feel its a significant variety coin.

If you made the mistake and sent variety in and it got graded but forgot to add the $24...there is still hope...you can send the coin back (you guessed it, with more money) and they will gladly beholder and give you the label you wanted (sometimes).

Darn sure you know what your talking about and PCGS does not..pay someone else to attribute the coin, have them put it in writing, and send the letter in with your submission, along with your own photographs with large arrows or whatever you think it will take to make them see it.

Found a coin in a PCGS holder that is a variety. Send it in $24 attribution, $10 Reholder, $8, handling, and $16.95 shipping and they will gladly beholder the coin with the variety designation on the the new label.

Bought a coin that has a variety designation on the holder like a 1990 No S proof cent and tried to enter it in the registry, only to find out it it does not compute? Well you have a old PCGS number before they set up Variety Registry sets. This too can be corrected pay all the fees EVEN THOUGH THEY ALREADY DID THE @!#$%^&*()_ attribution and you will get the coin back with the new number on it.

Hope this helps?

WS

PCGSCustomerService · February 14, 2012 2:22AM

Please visit this link; PCGS Varieties it has just about everything you need to know along with a list of what we'll attribute. In a nutshell a major variety is anything found in the Cherrypickers Guide, the Red Book or any variety that already has a corresponding PCGS coin number.

If a coin is submitted though the Variety service and it is not one we offer than your money will be credited back to you. If it is a variety we offer and the service is done but the variety expert feels that it doesn't qualify, then you'll still be charged for the service. If it is considered a major variety there is not charge for the service.

Billet7 · February 14, 2012 2:25AM

davewesen · February 14, 2012 2:29AM

It used to be if it was in the redbook, regular submission would get it covered and labeled what it is

MilkmanDan · February 14, 2012 2:32AM

<< Please visit this link; PCGS Varieties it has just about everything you need to know along with a list of what we'll attribute. In a nutshell a major variety is anything found in the Cherrypickers Guide, the Red Book or any variety that already has a corresponding PCGS coin number.

If a coin is submitted though the Variety service and it is not one we offer than your money will be credited back to you. If it is a variety we offer and the service is done but the variety expert feels that it doesn't qualify, then you'll still be charged for the service. If it is considered a major variety there is not charge for the service. >>

It's still not clear how to determine if a variety is a major variety that doesn't require the fee.

Billet7 · February 14, 2012 2:32AM

Thanks for responding PCGS.

That is the exact page I refrenced when sending in the coin. Since it isn't listed as a variety that PCGS recognizes (they don't do Seated Quarter varieties by Briggs numbers) and it is listed as a major variety in the PCGS price guide AND it has a PCGS number assigned to it...why is it not certified under the standard PCGS grading service?

I'm sincerely trying to understand what's going on. Is the 1856-S/s a major variety or not? It's listed in the price guide, the Redbook....just about every reference book, but PCGS hasn't been certifying them when they cross the grading block. Please help.

Thanks!

Billet7 · February 14, 2012 2:35AM

Sounds like to me that it should be certified through general submission, but there is some sort of internal confusion (possibly computer software setup) so it just reverts back to the standard 1856-S.

ModCrewman · February 14, 2012 2:38AM

With all due respect, I believe you are still missing the point of the issue.

There are coins that are considered "Major Varieties" that have 4 digit PCGS numbers, a few examples:

#4004 - Doubled Monticello 1939 Jefferson Nickel #4004
#4015 - 1942-D/D Jefferson Nickel #4015
#5441 - 1856-S/S Seated Quarter #5441
#6686 - 1956 Franklin Half Dollar Type I #6686
#5315 - 1806/5 Draped Bust Quarter #5315

These coins are varieties that in my understanding should not require the variety attribution fee because they have a 4 digit number and are accordingly deemed "Major Varieties" that PCGS will classify as such without the extra $24 fee. Accordingly, I have had the last 2 in that list graded without paying the $24 fee and have been properly listed under those numbers on the slab.

In both of those cases, I was contacted by PCGS customer service and told I needed the fee, and when I provided the explanation in the above paragraph, was told "Nevermind." and the coins were processed without the additional fee.

Of course the OP and Dimeman have had a different experience with their 4 digit numbers in the past. It seems clear to me that some clarity needs to be brought to this issue.

DIMEMAN · February 14, 2012 2:45AM

Seated quarters are treated like Seated dimes. They only do the Cherry Picker Guide and they don't do all of them. I looked at the Seated quarter Complete set and compared it to the CPG and a lot of the varieties in the CPG are not in the PCGS sets.

I wish they would use Greer's book for Seated dimes.

fastfreddie · February 14, 2012 6:00AM

<< What I've been told by customer service is if it's a major variety listed with a 4 digit PCGS number, there is no attribution fee required.

In your case, the Seated Quarter Listings show the 5441 number you say was indicated, and they should have attributed it as such, provided it was indeed that variety.

I'd contact customer service. Good luck. >>

Nice to know they were looking!

It was probably due to your huge submission.

ModCrewman · February 14, 2012 10:56PM

Would still like to see this thread revisited by Customer Service.

1tommy · February 14, 2012 11:31PM

coindeuce · February 15, 2012 5:04AM

I tried a crossover submission of a very high value VAM in an attributed NGC holder several times, and paid PCGS the Variety Attribution fee on top of the grading fee. When PCGS declined to cross the coin, I was O.K. with sacrificing the grading fee, but why would I not be credited for the Variety Attribution fee, since the coin never even advanced to the attribution service?

DIMEMAN · February 15, 2012 5:13AM

If it doesn't you do get your money (variety fee) back. I know because I had it happen to me.

Type2 · February 15, 2012 6:13AM

I sent in some 1960-D's SM over LG D/D DDO and had to pay the extra fee's or it will come back with out the lable that has all the mumbo jumbo on it that will make the coin worth more $$$ they have two lables they will give you and the lable you get with out the fee is the lower price coin and the price go's up after you pay the fees to the lable with all the mumbo jumbo. Just pay and all will be O.K.

GMan · February 15, 2012 7:19AM

I just read theat faq and it says varieties can't be in a submission with non-varities yet I've had forum members tell me the opposite. I'll probably just keep them seperate to be safe, but does anyone know for sure? Has anyone submitted a mixed submission and had any problems?

MilkmanDan · February 15, 2012 7:23AM

<< I just read theat faq and it says varieties can't be in a submission with non-varities yet I've had forum members tell me the opposite. I'll probably just keep them seperate to be safe, but does anyone know for sure? Has anyone submitted a mixed submission and had any problems? >>

It's a rule that in my experience is not enforced. I accidentally mixed varieties with non-varieities once and even forgot to add the variety cost. A nice woman called me and asked if I wanted the attribution and had me email a confirmation that I would accept the $24 charge. I found they were very flexible and courteous about the whole situation.

DIMEMAN · February 15, 2012 7:36AM

Varieties and non-varieties "CAN" be mixed...it's fine....they all have to be the same as in "raw" or "crossover".

GMan · February 15, 2012 7:38AM

Ok I'll give it a try then. Thanks.

PCGSCustomerService · February 17, 2012 1:12AM

<< I just read theat faq and it says varieties can't be in a submission with non-varities yet I've had forum members tell me the opposite. I'll probably just keep them seperate to be safe, but does anyone know for sure? Has anyone submitted a mixed submission and had any problems? >>

You don't have to seperate them.

PCGSCustomerService · February 17, 2012 1:14AM

<< Would still like to see this thread revisited by Customer Service. >>

This is the response I recieved from Ron Guth:

"If the coin is listed on the main date listing page (http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Hierarchy.aspx?c=711&title=Type+2,+No+Motto+(1840-1865)), it is considered a Major variety. If not, it must be submitted under the variety attribution service, regardless of the length of the PCGS number."

ModCrewman · February 17, 2012 1:27AM

Linkified

PCGSCustomerService · February 17, 2012 1:30AM

Thanks

Billet7 · February 17, 2012 1:37AM

Great response, thanks.

Is there any way we can get some dialogue on one of the submission pages that delineates this. I've been confused for years over what needs to be submitted as a variety and what does not. A simple footnote and direction of where to find the info would be smashing!

It appears that many people have run into this problem, not just me.

Thanks for the attention PCGS!

19Lyds · February 17, 2012 1:50AM

<< Seated quarters are treated like Seated dimes. They only do the Cherry Picker Guide and they don't do all of them. I looked at the Seated quarter Complete set and compared it to the CPG and a lot of the varieties in the CPG are not in the PCGS sets.

I wish they would use Greer's book for Seated dimes. >>

Getting a coin attributed as a variety from the CPG and having it listed in a "Complete Variety Set" are two completely different animals.

One is certainly not dependent upon the other.

PCGSCustomerService · February 17, 2012 1:53AM

<< Great response, thanks.

Is there any way we can get some dialogue on one of the submission pages that delineates this. I've been confused for years over what needs to be submitted as a variety and what does not. A simple footnote and direction of where to find the info would be smashing!

It appears that many people have run into this problem, not just me.

Thanks for the attention PCGS! >>

Yes, I will definitely forward the suggestion to my superiors.

19Lyds · February 17, 2012 1:59AM

<< I just read theat faq and it says varieties can't be in a submission with non-varities yet I've had forum members tell me the opposite. I'll probably just keep them seperate to be safe, but does anyone know for sure? Has anyone submitted a mixed submission and had any problems? >>

Submissions need to be separated by Type/Service Level.
Variety Attribution is an "Additional Service" and can be freely intermixed with different grading Types.

Yes, I submit variety attributions like this all the time.

Does PCGS do major varieties without attribution costs?

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