Lord M--There is no way that you should make restitution. The great idea to send you to England was accepted by a lot of folks who have really appreciated your posts through the years. We wanted to send you over. I think a lot of us were just drooling at the chance to read your facinating stories of what you found. I can certantly understand the predicament that you are in. I see by your post that you have left a message on his phone. I sent a pm to him a couple of days ago but have not heard anything from him. I don't want to think the worst, but for all we know he might have passed away over the winter and his wife and family would not think to post something on this forumn about it. I know my family probably would not think to post anything here when I pass. I am the only one in the family that cares about coins. I know my wife knows that I am on some kind of coin forumn but she wouldn't begin to know how to contact anyone here. I will pm you the current phone number that I have for him and you can compare it with yours. As you can tell from the bottom of my post I have won one of the coveted "You Suck Awards from Lord M". I am proud to have done business with you, read your post on this forumn and your metal detecting stories as well. Keep up the good work and don't go yeti on us again. Olmanjon
I agree that LordM has absolutely no obligation here. Still, if he feels the need to repay the funds, I'd suggest that rather than return the money, it would be far better for him to commit to take the trip at his own expense, whenever it becomes practical. That way, everybody wins. And just imagine what a great story it will be if Rob unearths a priceless treasure!
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I am trying to figure out where anyone suggested that LordM make any restitution in a serious manner anywhere, there is even no suggestion of it, and there should be no reason for that so lets just stop bringing that up. If I understand all that is happening is LordM is trying to contact Laurent to have Laurent return the money, thats all. I am sure that it will take place , there is nothing to suggest otherwise at this point in time. >>
It was (wrongly) suggested that LordM was partly responsible in this thread, specifically statements by TomB:
You already know my offer in PMs, to help make restitution. I personally would like to reimburse (or publicly thank , at least) llafoe. Who, like a few other military members here, are sacrificing their all , abroad, for our freedom and safety here.
<< <i>I agree that LordM has absolutely no obligation here. Still, if he feels the need to repay the funds, I'd suggest that rather than return the money, it would be far better for him to commit to take the trip at his own expense, whenever it becomes practical. That way, everybody wins. And just imagine what a great story it will be if Rob unearths a priceless treasure! >>
Andy, this is a good idea. I think it's probably better to return the funds for now, if they can be had, but when I get my ducks in a row, perhaps with some family backing from dear ol' Mom and Dad, and go through the logistics like getting a passport and booking the arrangements, export licenses, site permissions, etc (this is why a package tour offered for detectorists might be best), THEN I can let people donate if they want to.
This thing died on the vine mostly from my lack of preparation for the logistics. I did not want to book a tour until I knew we had all the funds (and those packages ain't cheap), and furthermore my actually getting that far would have required Laurent to release some of the funds for me to make the sizable deposit. So it was a little bit of a Catch-22 and I got bogged down and sidetracked.
If the money is still there and accessible (depending on how much was actually collected rather than just pledged), and I can actually buck up my courage to make the concrete step of booking something and making a deposit and asking the time off from work and such, then the momentum might be restored. I've never given up the dream. It's just felt awkward being the beneficiary of all this, since it does obligate me to actually... well... DO something.
My sluggishness and lapse in communication might be the big reason Laurent has dropped off the radar. Naturally he bears some responsibility for his own silence, but for the moment that is all. I'm not prepared to make any nasty assumptions about him until proven otherwise, because HIS enthusiasm and work launched this idea and carried it along in the early phases.
<< <i>I am trying to figure out where anyone suggested that LordM make any restitution in a serious manner anywhere, there is even no suggestion of it, and there should be no reason for that so lets just stop bringing that up. If I understand all that is happening is LordM is trying to contact Laurent to have Laurent return the money, thats all. I am sure that it will take place , there is nothing to suggest otherwise at this point in time. >>
It was (wrongly) suggested that LordM was partly responsible in this thread, specifically statements by TomB:
If you can find anywhere that I have written that LM should make restitution to those who donated or pledged then you have found something akin to the Lochness Monster, Sasquatch or those little green men from Area 51. I wrote that LM may have "a large share of guilt by association" placed at his doorstep because he lent his name to a fundraiser that did not work as planned. That is simply speaking the plain, unvarnished truth; if you lend your name and support to a fundraiser and the fundraiser appears to go badly or disappear then your reputation may take a hit. Please keep my words, Realone's questions and your fantasies apart from one another.
<< <i>I wrote that LM may have "a large share of guilt by association" placed at his doorstep because he lent his name to a fundraiser that did not work as planned. That is simply speaking the plain, unvarnished truth; if you lend your name and support to a fundraiser and the fundraiser appears to go badly or disappear then your reputation may take a hit. >>
TomB- you're right. Like it or not, guilt by association is a very real phenomenon, and I bear my share of it here.
<< <i>Please keep my words, Realone's questions and your fantasies apart from one another. >>
Stop being an azzhat. The only thing I said was that you said LordM was partly responsible for the current situation, which you DID say:
<< <i>It is interesting that you should write this post about LM being a victim with respect to the fundraiser and its non-performance. Even though LM did not initiate the process, the fact that he didn't stop the process may lay a large share of guilt by association on his doorstep. In my opinion, LM's reputation has taken a hit. This might not be entirely fair, but if you lend your name to a fundraiser then you should be certain it all runs smoothly. >>
Let's not devolve into a flame war, please. I understand what TomB was gettin' at, and get his point, but I also appreciate those who defended my honor.
We're all friends here... mostly.
BREAKING NEWS: I got a phone call from Laurent mere minutes ago. It seems we are nearing a resolution of this issue.
I will post an update thread shortly, and I think a poll to guide me on how I should proceed.
I apologize for not keeping the summary above updated, as I got behind in my PMs with other trades and stuff going on.
The gist of it all that I'm getting is that the forums are frequented with forgiving folk, who are not wanting to lynch me (or maybe not even Laurent, once I post that update). I offered to send him a link to all this but he declined and I'm not sure he even has a computer anymore. More on this later.
This thread is now concluded as I will direct all further discussion of this matter to the new update and poll thread when that is posted.
Comments
Olmanjon
http://bit.ly/bxi7py
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I am trying to figure out where anyone suggested that LordM make any restitution in a serious manner anywhere, there is even no suggestion of it, and there should be no reason for that so lets just stop bringing that up. If I understand all that is happening is LordM is trying to contact Laurent to have Laurent return the money, thats all. I am sure that it will take place , there is nothing to suggest otherwise at this point in time. >>
It was (wrongly) suggested that LordM was partly responsible in this thread, specifically statements by TomB:
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=767021&STARTPAGE=1
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
He sets this thing up, seemingly everybody then forgets about it for a few years? I'm most curious about this comment from the other thread:
"Laurent has continued to operate his ebay business month in and month out since this project began.
Any smelly birds are at his doorstep."
Seems if he's running listings, a message would be the way to go.
<< <i>I agree that LordM has absolutely no obligation here. Still, if he feels the need to repay the funds, I'd suggest that rather than return the money, it would be far better for him to commit to take the trip at his own expense, whenever it becomes practical. That way, everybody wins. And just imagine what a great story it will be if Rob unearths a priceless treasure! >>
Andy, this is a good idea. I think it's probably better to return the funds for now, if they can be had, but when I get my ducks in a row, perhaps with some family backing from dear ol' Mom and Dad, and go through the logistics like getting a passport and booking the arrangements, export licenses, site permissions, etc (this is why a package tour offered for detectorists might be best), THEN I can let people donate if they want to.
This thing died on the vine mostly from my lack of preparation for the logistics. I did not want to book a tour until I knew we had all the funds (and those packages ain't cheap), and furthermore my actually getting that far would have required Laurent to release some of the funds for me to make the sizable deposit. So it was a little bit of a Catch-22 and I got bogged down and sidetracked.
If the money is still there and accessible (depending on how much was actually collected rather than just pledged), and I can actually buck up my courage to make the concrete step of booking something and making a deposit and asking the time off from work and such, then the momentum might be restored. I've never given up the dream. It's just felt awkward being the beneficiary of all this, since it does obligate me to actually... well... DO something.
My sluggishness and lapse in communication might be the big reason Laurent has dropped off the radar. Naturally he bears some responsibility for his own silence, but for the moment that is all. I'm not prepared to make any nasty assumptions about him until proven otherwise, because HIS enthusiasm and work launched this idea and carried it along in the early phases.
<< <i>
<< <i>I am trying to figure out where anyone suggested that LordM make any restitution in a serious manner anywhere, there is even no suggestion of it, and there should be no reason for that so lets just stop bringing that up. If I understand all that is happening is LordM is trying to contact Laurent to have Laurent return the money, thats all. I am sure that it will take place , there is nothing to suggest otherwise at this point in time. >>
It was (wrongly) suggested that LordM was partly responsible in this thread, specifically statements by TomB:
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=767021&STARTPAGE=1 >>
If you can find anywhere that I have written that LM should make restitution to those who donated or pledged then you have found something akin to the Lochness Monster, Sasquatch or those little green men from Area 51. I wrote that LM may have "a large share of guilt by association" placed at his doorstep because he lent his name to a fundraiser that did not work as planned. That is simply speaking the plain, unvarnished truth; if you lend your name and support to a fundraiser and the fundraiser appears to go badly or disappear then your reputation may take a hit. Please keep my words, Realone's questions and your fantasies apart from one another.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>I wrote that LM may have "a large share of guilt by association" placed at his doorstep because he lent his name to a fundraiser that did not work as planned. That is simply speaking the plain, unvarnished truth; if you lend your name and support to a fundraiser and the fundraiser appears to go badly or disappear then your reputation may take a hit. >>
TomB- you're right. Like it or not, guilt by association is a very real phenomenon, and I bear my share of it here.
<< <i>Please keep my words, Realone's questions and your fantasies apart from one another. >>
Stop being an azzhat. The only thing I said was that you said LordM was partly responsible for the current situation, which you DID say:
<< <i>It is interesting that you should write this post about LM being a victim with respect to the fundraiser and its non-performance. Even though LM did not initiate the process, the fact that he didn't stop the process may lay a large share of guilt by association on his doorstep. In my opinion, LM's reputation has taken a hit. This might not be entirely fair, but if you lend your name to a fundraiser then you should be certain it all runs smoothly. >>
In my opinion, you're 100% wrong.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
We're all friends here... mostly.
BREAKING NEWS: I got a phone call from Laurent mere minutes ago. It seems we are nearing a resolution of this issue.
I will post an update thread shortly, and I think a poll to guide me on how I should proceed.
I apologize for not keeping the summary above updated, as I got behind in my PMs with other trades and stuff going on.
The gist of it all that I'm getting is that the forums are frequented with forgiving folk, who are not wanting to lynch me (or maybe not even Laurent, once I post that update). I offered to send him a link to all this but he declined and I'm not sure he even has a computer anymore. More on this later.
This thread is now concluded as I will direct all further discussion of this matter to the new update and poll thread when that is posted.
And now here is the Laurentyvan update.