I'm not sure how true this scenario is, the reason being I had a nice 1807 draped bust 50C up on feebay for almost 2 months with absolutely no action. I had it listed as a BIN obo for 30 days and then listed it as an auction starting at greysheet ask. But what I think may have led to its eventual demise is my inability to take good photos to help the sale.
If you'd like to link the auction, we'll take a look. My guess is it would have sold immediately for a lower buy it now price, or would have sold for a decent price if you'd started it at half of bid.
EVERY coin is "liquid" at the right price. (and if it's not liquid at free or almost free, then it's not "worth" anything at all, despite what a "guide" or your beliefs tell you it should be "worth"
Sometimes that price is not what we wish it was, for example if our expectations are unrealistic, we think the item is not "liquid".
That said, the esoteric nature of coins in general means that they must be Marketed to an audience hungry for that coin.
I could walk around my workplace with a PCGS MS65 Saint and try to sell it for $500 and get NO takers.
it would be a mistake to conclude that it is just not a "liquid" coin
<< <i>"Liquidity when Selling - the Reason I collect Modern Bullion and Commems," by jmski. >>
If liquidity is your reason for collecting, are you really a collector or more of an accumulator/investor? >>
Nope! After an eye popping experience when trying to "liquidate" a few very nice Washies, I was advised on this forum to always have an "exit strategy" when buying coins! Unfortunately, that advice is now indelibly etched into my psyche. I have the 14th ranked set (current) of Washington Quarters and I am finding it increasingly difficult to unload a bunch of cash for upgrades. Even though most of my purchases are intended for the long haul, I hate the thought of my heirs taking the collection for liquidation and realizing only a tiny fraction of what was "invested".
So I still "collect" but now I collect with an exit strategy!
What we've got here is failure to communicate.....
<< <i>To me a liquid coin is one that can be sold with just quick phone call without even needing pics. >>
Examples???
>>
I had a call for a "rooster" today. When the gentleman came in the prices were much higher than he'd paid the last time. So, he asked for 5 or 6 dates of Morgan dollars he needed. He ended up spending more for a few Morgans, and four ASE's than he would have for the gold rooster.
I'd say Morgans and Silver Eagles are liquid, even without pics. He was only concerned with dates. It wasn't until I presented him with prices above spot that he became concerned about liquidity. Then I explained the grades.
After the end of the transaction he left. Then he came back because he forgot the receipt and asked about "incuse $2.5 quarter eagle gold pieces". I showed him a few and he said he would be back after the prices drop.
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody.
Common date proof Gold Eagles. At the moment they can be acquired for a price only slightly higher than bullion specimens.
At close to bullion prices, downside risk is limited, and they will participate in any increase in the price of gold. The kicker is that occasionally the price of proofs will rise much faster than the price of bullion specimens. Back when gold was $1200, generic one-ounce proof Gold Eagles were fetching more than $1900 each. It could happen again - generic proof Silver Eagles are currently selling for more than double melt.
<< <i>To me a liquid coin is one that can be sold with just quick phone call without even needing pics. >>
Examples???
>>
Sign up for CRO's Early Bird new inventory announcement emails and you'll see plenty of coins that vanish instantly before getting imaged for their site.
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
IMO, As TDN and others are saying the idea of discussing "liquidity" absent a discussion of "price" and "venue" is incomplete.
To me, "liquidity" for a coin means a narrow bid-ask spread (or wholesale-retail, if you prefer) and a broad market in terms of potential buyers at a price in that range.
To illustrate, how "liquid" is this bust half dollar?
To answer, there needs to be context
If take it to a coin shop or show, I will certainly get an offer of some kind. It will probably be for "type" and it will be close to "bid" for a grade lower than I consider it.
Let's say I could readily sell it for $150. BUT it's an O.104, so I'd like to get twice that. Sooo it's not so liquid to the average dealer, but more so to a specialist dealer or collector that needs the variety. I'd have to shop it around to get that. Would take a while, be a little bit of trouble, etc..
Similarly, If I take it to work and walk it around, I'd be lucky to get an offer of $20, most would say, "neat" and hand it back. Not liquid there, even almost free.
Substitute other coins. Same exercise if it was a 1942 half dollar, or a 1834, or 1972 or 1797, with or without slabs. Liquidity means easy to sell fast for close to your price.
If your price is unreasonable versus the market for it at that price, it's not very Liquid at all.
Of course, start *anything* on ebay for one cent with no reserve in a true auction, and you'll get what it's worth there and then, if you're flexible on price.
The coins that are most liquid at the price you expect to sell them at nearly any venue are the ones with little or no numismatic premium are the bullion coins (ie. ASEs and AGEs). The greater the numismatic premium, the greater the numismatic complexity (ie. common Saint vs. VAM vs. three cent nickel variety), the more grading is an issue (i.e.. raw vs. slabbed, which slab, naked vs. stickered slab, etc.), the lower the liquidity.
I don't have my guide with me, so I'm going on the prices he's quoting.
Why it's good:
1. Because 17 people bid on it. So the underbidder was willing to pay only a few dollars less for it.
2. The selling price was for the coin that was reasonably well described, not for a bean. There is no premium for a bean.
3. The coin looks good for the grade. (edit: Or at least all the bidders had a good view of it and they thought so)
4. Popular series.
5. Not an esoteric rarity...easy for the masses to understand.
6. I'm trusting the author of this listing that it is under guide.
7. I'm trusting the author of this listing that the next grade up is $15,000. That makes this grade an "Optimal Collecting Grade". Usually, coins that are radically more expensive in the next grade up (like at least a 6-fold price increase) tend to do pretty well because people will "settle" for the lower grade.
<< <i>IMO, As TDN and others are saying the idea of discussing "liquidity" absent a discussion of "price" and "venue" is incomplete.
To me, "liquidity" for a coin means a narrow bid-ask spread (or wholesale-retail, if you prefer) and a broad market in terms of potential buyers at a price in that range.
To illustrate, how "liquid" is this bust half dollar?
To answer, there needs to be context
If take it to a coin shop or show, I will certainly get an offer of some kind. It will probably be for "type" and it will be close to "bid" for a grade lower than I consider it.
Let's say I could readily sell it for $150. BUT it's an O.104, so I'd like to get twice that. Sooo it's not so liquid to the average dealer, but more so to a specialist dealer or collector that needs the variety. I'd have to shop it around to get that. Would take a while, be a little bit of trouble, etc..
Similarly, If I take it to work and walk it around, I'd be lucky to get an offer of $20, most would say, "neat" and hand it back. Not liquid there, even almost free.
Substitute other coins. Same exercise if it was a 1942 half dollar, or a 1834, or 1972 or 1797, with or without slabs. Liquidity means easy to sell fast for close to your price.
If your price is unreasonable versus the market for it at that price, it's not very Liquid at all.
Of course, start *anything* on ebay for one cent with no reserve in a true auction, and you'll get what it's worth there and then, if you're flexible on price. >>
That's a well thought out answer. Thanks.
My "assumptions" included, but not detailed, consideration that the specific item(s) would be liquid if it could be sold at or near a consensus market price. Arriving at a "market price" is a completely different exercise. Perhaps this thread is a bit more complex than simply asking the thread titled question. Too many factors involved in answering the question. As you stated: market, audience, time to sell, etc....
Oh well, great thinking exercise!
What we've got here is failure to communicate.....
OK for fun, I'm bidding on a coin on ebay that has a somewhat hotly contested auction. However, the closing time on the auction is not that good and the picture is less than desireable.
I'm hoping to win it in the auction, rephotograph it, and then place it back up for sale with an auction ending time that makes sense and with better photos. I'll keep track of my costs. I'm sure I'll lose money on it, but I'm filing that way under "research". I'll report back with the results. This will give us an idea of how liquid (or how non-liquid) these things are.
"Money does not care about speeches on morality. Capital asks whether the rules will remain the same tomorrow. With inflation, people assume price is the problem, and propose regulation—but price is simply the message." - Martin Armstrong
I know of no other coins which are as easy to buy and sell quickly at a nice profit than carefully selected moderns. The 25th Anniversary ASE's are a perfect example.
A friend came into the shop, recently. He shows me the coins that are most liquid to him. He wouldn't sell or trade, but I loved the piece and tried to land it. He did not entertain the thought of letting it go. That would mean it's not liquid, right ?
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody.
Comments
<< <i>A liquid metal is mercury, so perhaps Mercury Dimes! >>
Aka quicksilver!
If you'd like to link the auction, we'll take a look. My guess is it would have sold immediately for a lower buy it now price, or would have sold for a decent price if you'd started it at half of bid.
EVERY coin is "liquid" at the right price. (and if it's not liquid at free or almost free, then it's not "worth" anything at all, despite what a "guide" or your beliefs tell you it should be "worth"
Sometimes that price is not what we wish it was, for example if our expectations are unrealistic, we think the item is not "liquid".
That said, the esoteric nature of coins in general means that they must be Marketed to an audience hungry for that coin.
I could walk around my workplace with a PCGS MS65 Saint and try to sell it for $500 and get NO takers.
it would be a mistake to conclude that it is just not a "liquid" coin
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
<< <i>"Liquidity when Selling - the Reason I collect Modern Bullion and Commems," by jmski.
If liquidity is your reason for collecting, are you really a collector or more of an accumulator/investor? >>
Nope! After an eye popping experience when trying to "liquidate" a few very nice Washies, I was advised on this forum to always have an "exit strategy" when buying coins! Unfortunately, that advice is now indelibly etched into my psyche. I have the 14th ranked set (current) of Washington Quarters and I am finding it increasingly difficult to unload a bunch of cash for upgrades. Even though most of my purchases are intended for the long haul, I hate the thought of my heirs taking the collection for liquidation and realizing only a tiny fraction of what was "invested".
So I still "collect" but now I collect with an exit strategy!
Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
<< <i>To me a liquid coin is one that can be sold with just quick phone call without even needing pics. >>
Examples???
Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
<< <i>
<< <i>To me a liquid coin is one that can be sold with just quick phone call without even needing pics. >>
Examples???
I had a call for a "rooster" today. When the gentleman came in the prices were much higher than he'd paid the last time. So, he asked for 5 or 6 dates of Morgan dollars he needed. He ended up spending more for a few Morgans, and four ASE's than he would have for the gold rooster.
I'd say Morgans and Silver Eagles are liquid, even without pics. He was only concerned with dates. It wasn't until I presented him with prices above spot that he became concerned about liquidity. Then I explained the grades.
After the end of the transaction he left. Then he came back because he forgot the receipt and asked about "incuse $2.5 quarter eagle gold pieces". I showed him a few and he said he would be back after the prices drop.
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody.
<< <i>"Liquidity when Selling - the Reason I collect Modern Bullion and Commems," by jmski.
Totally correct, no-brainer. There's NOTHING like modern bullion related coins and some modern commens when it comes to liquidity and profit.
<< <i>All coins are liquid.........at a high enough temperature.
The Mercury coins are liquid at typical human temperatures but they are extremely difficult to mint!
The name is LEE!
Common date proof Gold Eagles. At the moment they can be acquired for a price only slightly higher than bullion specimens.
At close to bullion prices, downside risk is limited, and they will participate in any increase in the price of gold. The kicker is that occasionally the price of proofs will rise much faster than the price of bullion specimens. Back when gold was $1200, generic one-ounce proof Gold Eagles were fetching more than $1900 each. It could happen again - generic proof Silver Eagles are currently selling for more than double melt.
Besides, they look nice!
<< <i>All coins are liquid.........at a high enough temperature.
All coins are liquid .... at a low enough price.
<< <i>
<< <i>To me a liquid coin is one that can be sold with just quick phone call without even needing pics. >>
Examples???
Sign up for CRO's Early Bird new inventory announcement emails and you'll see plenty of coins that vanish instantly before getting imaged for their site.
To me, "liquidity" for a coin means a narrow bid-ask spread (or wholesale-retail, if you prefer) and a broad market in terms of potential buyers at a price in that range.
To illustrate, how "liquid" is this bust half dollar?
To answer, there needs to be context
If take it to a coin shop or show, I will certainly get an offer of some kind. It will probably be for "type" and it will be close to "bid" for a grade lower than I consider it.
Let's say I could readily sell it for $150. BUT it's an O.104, so I'd like to get twice that. Sooo it's not so liquid to the average dealer, but more so to a specialist dealer or collector that needs the variety. I'd have to shop it around to get that. Would take a while, be a little bit of trouble, etc..
Similarly, If I take it to work and walk it around, I'd be lucky to get an offer of $20, most would say, "neat" and hand it back. Not liquid there, even almost free.
Substitute other coins. Same exercise if it was a 1942 half dollar, or a 1834, or 1972 or 1797, with or without slabs. Liquidity means easy to sell fast for close to your price.
If your price is unreasonable versus the market for it at that price, it's not very Liquid at all.
Of course, start *anything* on ebay for one cent with no reserve in a true auction, and you'll get what it's worth there and then, if you're flexible on price.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Probably Liquid
I don't have my guide with me, so I'm going on the prices he's quoting.
Why it's good:
1. Because 17 people bid on it. So the underbidder was willing to pay only a few dollars less for it.
2. The selling price was for the coin that was reasonably well described, not for a bean. There is no premium for a bean.
3. The coin looks good for the grade. (edit: Or at least all the bidders had a good view of it and they thought so)
4. Popular series.
5. Not an esoteric rarity...easy for the masses to understand.
6. I'm trusting the author of this listing that it is under guide.
7. I'm trusting the author of this listing that the next grade up is $15,000. That makes this grade an "Optimal Collecting Grade". Usually, coins that are radically more expensive in the next grade up (like at least a 6-fold price increase) tend to do pretty well because people will "settle" for the lower grade.
Steve
link
<< <i>IMO, As TDN and others are saying the idea of discussing "liquidity" absent a discussion of "price" and "venue" is incomplete.
To me, "liquidity" for a coin means a narrow bid-ask spread (or wholesale-retail, if you prefer) and a broad market in terms of potential buyers at a price in that range.
To illustrate, how "liquid" is this bust half dollar?
To answer, there needs to be context
If take it to a coin shop or show, I will certainly get an offer of some kind. It will probably be for "type" and it will be close to "bid" for a grade lower than I consider it.
Let's say I could readily sell it for $150. BUT it's an O.104, so I'd like to get twice that. Sooo it's not so liquid to the average dealer, but more so to a specialist dealer or collector that needs the variety. I'd have to shop it around to get that. Would take a while, be a little bit of trouble, etc..
Similarly, If I take it to work and walk it around, I'd be lucky to get an offer of $20, most would say, "neat" and hand it back. Not liquid there, even almost free.
Substitute other coins. Same exercise if it was a 1942 half dollar, or a 1834, or 1972 or 1797, with or without slabs. Liquidity means easy to sell fast for close to your price.
If your price is unreasonable versus the market for it at that price, it's not very Liquid at all.
Of course, start *anything* on ebay for one cent with no reserve in a true auction, and you'll get what it's worth there and then, if you're flexible on price. >>
That's a well thought out answer. Thanks.
My "assumptions" included, but not detailed, consideration that the specific item(s) would be liquid if it could be sold at or near a consensus market price. Arriving at a "market price" is a completely different exercise. Perhaps this thread is a bit more complex than simply asking the thread titled question. Too many factors involved in answering the question. As you stated: market, audience, time to sell, etc....
Oh well, great thinking exercise!
Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
<< <i>For series I would say Morgans and Lincolns always seem to be a lot of people collecting them in almost all grade levels.
These are the most collected by casual collectors thus giving you more demand.
I'm hoping to win it in the auction, rephotograph it, and then place it back up for sale with an auction ending time that makes sense and with better photos. I'll keep track of my costs. I'm sure I'll lose money on it, but I'm filing that way under "research". I'll report back with the results. This will give us an idea of how liquid (or how non-liquid) these things are.
Steve
"Money does not care about speeches on morality. Capital asks whether the rules will remain the same tomorrow. With inflation, people assume price is the problem, and propose regulation—but price is simply the message." - Martin Armstrong
for all you TREKKIES out there...You know who you are
A friend came into the shop, recently. He shows me the coins that are most liquid to him. He wouldn't sell or trade, but I loved the piece and tried to land it. He did not entertain the thought of letting it go. That would mean it's not liquid, right ?
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody.