Very interesting. If it was post mint damage, the dentils would be damaged also. But there does not appear to be any sign of that.
Just guessing... Perhaps a star punch? was tested or used on a planchet for whatever reason? That would result in an incuse star design... but when the coin was then minted, the dentils, and coin designs, took out the rest of the stars except for the rim? I seem to recall that individual design elements such as the stars were punched into the dies individually on earlier coins, so perhaps that would explain the star punch?
<< <i>slammed against another coin leaving the stars impression? >>
Yup---contact marks from another coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>slammed against another coin leaving the stars impression? >>
Yup---contact marks from another coin. >>
But how do you explain that the dentils are not punched down? Does not seem possible that this could be left by another coin post minting, and not have the dentils affected.
If... the top of the adjacent dentils are higher than the bottom of the incused star (which is sure appears to be so) then I have a difficult time with the theory that the star came from post mint contact with another coin. The dentils would be flattened., and very close to the same level as the bottom of the incuse star.
The incused star is strong (except for near the bottom of the photo, where it appears there may just be a trace of another star) and the dentils are strong... both are distinct, which drives me to think the coin was struck after the incuse impression was on the planchet / coin.
jzbrown, are you able to tell if the bottom of the incused star, is higher than the upper level of the dentils? If so, then I would have to go with the post mint damage from contact with another coin (but still surprising with the amount of detail in the star). I can see what what stealer is refering to.... just a very slight appearance of color change on the dentil that makes it appear it can be slightly affected. So it depends on the height of the dentils and the depth of the incuse star...
If the bottom of the incused star is LOWER that the upper level of the dentils, then it is much more interesting... and would not rule out that it came from the mint that way.
Realone, that one sure looks like it matches up well with the reverse. Would have to say on the coin you posted, that may have been PMD such as contact with the reverse of another coin. On your photo, looks more clear that the incuse design in the rim is higher than the dots on the coin; so I can understand that could come from another coin. But... I don't know for sure, JMO.
What puzzles me on the coin posted by jzbrown, it appears the incuse depth is lower than the tops of the dentils. That just makes no sense to me other than it came from the mint that way.
<< <i>Very interesting. If it was post mint damage, the dentils would be damaged also. But there does not appear to be any sign of that.
Just guessing... Perhaps a star punch? was tested or used on a planchet for whatever reason? That would result in an incuse star design... but when the coin was then minted, the dentils, and coin designs, took out the rest of the stars except for the rim? I seem to recall that individual design elements such as the stars were punched into the dies individually on earlier coins, so perhaps that would explain the star punch?
Looks like a keeper to me! >>
Stars were impressed into the dies by hubbing, not a punch. There is no reason for a star punch to be used on a planchet. The stars are different from a double-dime. I bet the stars placement will match with another coin.
The rim is higher than the denticles (the denticles "ramp up" to the rim). If the striking coin was at an angle, it could leave an impression on the rim without disturbing the denticles.
It would be nice to see it in person.
I also look forward to Fred's take on it.
Edited to add ... can you send me a high resolution image? I would love to add it to my double dime images.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
Comments
Jim
slammed against another coin leaving the stars impression?
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Just guessing... Perhaps a star punch? was tested or used on a planchet for whatever reason? That would result in an incuse star design... but when the coin was then minted, the dentils, and coin designs, took out the rest of the stars except for the rim? I seem to recall that individual design elements such as the stars were punched into the dies individually on earlier coins, so perhaps that would explain the star punch?
Looks like a keeper to me!
<< <i>slammed against another coin leaving the stars impression? >>
Yup---contact marks from another coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>slammed against another coin leaving the stars impression? >>
Yup---contact marks from another coin. >>
But how do you explain that the dentils are not punched down? Does not seem possible that this could be left by another coin post minting, and not have the dentils affected.
The top star impression seems to have just been deep enough to affect the middle dentil.
<< <i>slammed against another coin leaving the stars impression? >>
How much pressure would need to be exerted to get such detail??? I can't see that happening in everyday Mint operations.
The incused star is strong (except for near the bottom of the photo, where it appears there may just be a trace of another star) and the dentils are strong... both are distinct, which drives me to think the coin was struck after the incuse impression was on the planchet / coin.
If the bottom of the incused star is LOWER that the upper level of the dentils, then it is much more interesting... and would not rule out that it came from the mint that way.
Jim
What puzzles me on the coin posted by jzbrown, it appears the incuse depth is lower than the tops of the dentils. That just makes no sense to me other than it came from the mint that way.
<< <i>Very interesting. If it was post mint damage, the dentils would be damaged also. But there does not appear to be any sign of that.
Just guessing... Perhaps a star punch? was tested or used on a planchet for whatever reason? That would result in an incuse star design... but when the coin was then minted, the dentils, and coin designs, took out the rest of the stars except for the rim? I seem to recall that individual design elements such as the stars were punched into the dies individually on earlier coins, so perhaps that would explain the star punch?
Looks like a keeper to me! >>
Stars were impressed into the dies by hubbing, not a punch. There is no reason for a star punch to be used on a planchet. The stars are different from a double-dime. I bet the stars placement will match with another coin.
The rim is higher than the denticles (the denticles "ramp up" to the rim). If the striking coin was at an angle, it could leave an impression on the rim without disturbing the denticles.
It would be nice to see it in person.
I also look forward to Fred's take on it.
Edited to add ... can you send me a high resolution image? I would love to add it to my double dime images.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
20 cent pics
Jim
<< <i>Astrorat - I have several here. If you cannot download them, I can email them to you if you want.
20 cent pics >>
Thanks!
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces