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Attention Ike lovers(Oh Lee!!!)......Littleton Coin Company finds 5-ton stash of mint 'Ike' $1's
Goldbully
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By Kathy McCormack
Associated Press / December 5, 2011
CONCORD, N.H.—A New Hampshire-based coin dealer has acquired a 5-ton stash of more than 220,000 rare Eisenhower $1 coins that were tucked away in a Montana bank vault for more than 30 years.
Littleton Coin Company has not disclosed the price, but it said Monday that the coins, most in sealed canvas bags from the U.S. Mint in Denver, are worth well over $1 million. Littleton plans to start offering them for sale next year.
The coins were shipped from the U.S. Mint during the 1970s to a Federal Reserve bank. A Montana man who does not want his name released bought and stored them in a local bank in Helena, where they sat until several months ago.
The "Ike" coins were minted from 1971 until 1978. The front shows President Dwight D. Eisenhower, who died in 1969, and the back commemorates man's first steps on the moon, also that year.
The coins themselves were not widely circulated, said Ken Westover, senior buyer for the 66-year-old coin company in northern New Hampshire. Many people held onto them as a tribute to Eisenhower, the nation's 34th president and the Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces in Europe during World War II, just like they did with half-dollar coins of President John F. Kennedy, first minted in 1964.
"Because this coin was so large and heavy, it was considered inconvenient to carry around in your pocket," Westover said. "A lot were used in gambling."
David Lange, research director of the Numismatic Guaranty Corporation, a coin-grading organization in Sarasota, Fla., said that outside of casinos and a few western states, the coin had never really been popular with the public. "They always preferred paper money over dollar coins," he said.
Westover called the "Ike" coin the "last of the large-size coins." Before it was made, the last $1 coin, minted from 1921 to 1935, was the Peace dollar, which was made of mostly silver. The Eisenhower coins were referred to as "silver dollar" coins, but they were made mostly of copper and nickel, like others.
The acquired stash sits in more than 200 bags in denominations of $1,000. Stretched from end to end, the company says, the coins would be longer than 77 football fields and stack higher than the Empire State Building.
"They haven't been handled a lot," Westover said. "The overall quality of these coins is quite nice."
John Hennessey, vice president of marketing for Littleton, estimated the price range per coin will be from $10 to more than several hundred dollars, depending on their condition.
"Ike dollars, even worn ones, bring a slight premium already, and of course uncirculated ones are very popular with collectors," Lange said.
This Aug. 2011 photo provided by the Littleton Coin Company shows Eisenhower dollars
at the company in Littleton, N.H. The company acquired nearly a quarter of a million of the
silver dollars that had been sitting in a basement vault of a Montana bank for more than
thirty years. (AP Photo/Littleton Coin Company, Stephanie Westover)
Link
Associated Press / December 5, 2011
CONCORD, N.H.—A New Hampshire-based coin dealer has acquired a 5-ton stash of more than 220,000 rare Eisenhower $1 coins that were tucked away in a Montana bank vault for more than 30 years.
Littleton Coin Company has not disclosed the price, but it said Monday that the coins, most in sealed canvas bags from the U.S. Mint in Denver, are worth well over $1 million. Littleton plans to start offering them for sale next year.
The coins were shipped from the U.S. Mint during the 1970s to a Federal Reserve bank. A Montana man who does not want his name released bought and stored them in a local bank in Helena, where they sat until several months ago.
The "Ike" coins were minted from 1971 until 1978. The front shows President Dwight D. Eisenhower, who died in 1969, and the back commemorates man's first steps on the moon, also that year.
The coins themselves were not widely circulated, said Ken Westover, senior buyer for the 66-year-old coin company in northern New Hampshire. Many people held onto them as a tribute to Eisenhower, the nation's 34th president and the Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces in Europe during World War II, just like they did with half-dollar coins of President John F. Kennedy, first minted in 1964.
"Because this coin was so large and heavy, it was considered inconvenient to carry around in your pocket," Westover said. "A lot were used in gambling."
David Lange, research director of the Numismatic Guaranty Corporation, a coin-grading organization in Sarasota, Fla., said that outside of casinos and a few western states, the coin had never really been popular with the public. "They always preferred paper money over dollar coins," he said.
Westover called the "Ike" coin the "last of the large-size coins." Before it was made, the last $1 coin, minted from 1921 to 1935, was the Peace dollar, which was made of mostly silver. The Eisenhower coins were referred to as "silver dollar" coins, but they were made mostly of copper and nickel, like others.
The acquired stash sits in more than 200 bags in denominations of $1,000. Stretched from end to end, the company says, the coins would be longer than 77 football fields and stack higher than the Empire State Building.
"They haven't been handled a lot," Westover said. "The overall quality of these coins is quite nice."
John Hennessey, vice president of marketing for Littleton, estimated the price range per coin will be from $10 to more than several hundred dollars, depending on their condition.
"Ike dollars, even worn ones, bring a slight premium already, and of course uncirculated ones are very popular with collectors," Lange said.
This Aug. 2011 photo provided by the Littleton Coin Company shows Eisenhower dollars
at the company in Littleton, N.H. The company acquired nearly a quarter of a million of the
silver dollars that had been sitting in a basement vault of a Montana bank for more than
thirty years. (AP Photo/Littleton Coin Company, Stephanie Westover)
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Comments
-Paul
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
But, I'll let Lee chime in before I make any further comment on the already infamous Littleton Coin.
If people put together sets using these D mint coins they might want the P mints to fill those sets.
Now they need to find 5 tons of P mints to fill the gap LOL....
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
I have and there are rarely even MS65 quality Ikes in them.
If they are in Montana, they have to have been moved a few times, but you never know.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>Flooding the market - Good call Littleton
Sometimes hoards like this can invigorate a market rather than kill it.
The only pop tops in any real danger should be the '71, '72, '75 t I, & '77. (Denvers) The mint sets "own" the others.
I'd wager that an awful lot of these are the bicentennials since these mintages were higher and there was more interest.
I hope they sell very well.
Actually, there are a lot more MS63/64 IKE's out there than MS66/67 IKE's and it doesn't matter if you've got 5 tons or 500 tons. Maybe they'll get lucky? Maybe they find some really cool errors?
Dates would be a nice thing to know.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>My guess is top pops will stay intact. Yes it's a lot of Ikes, but have you ever looked thru an original bag of Ikes???
I have and there are rarely even MS65 quality Ikes in them.
If they are in Montana, they have to have been moved a few times, but you never know. >>
Thanks James. I was trying to find a way to say this but you did it better than I ever could!
The name is LEE!
I had dreams of TY 2's,,,,,, high grade MS65/66 coins.
When I finished sorting the bag there was not (1) single coin that I considered worthy of submitting. All were MS64 or less
And MS64 was stretching it a bit.
No Ty 2's. All were Ty 3 coins.
GrandAm
<< <i>Interesting thread, what I get from it is that everyone would like to see more bags be dropped just about every day. Another reason why I don't collect mods, when there are so many minted and obviously unaccountable this type of thing could happen a little too often or just like this one one time with a huge gigantic hoard. Why don't we just be clear for the newbees, no matter how much wishful thinking this will affect the series, you just can't get away from statistics no matter how much wishful thinking there might be. >>
These are Ikes.
People saved Ikes. We knew all the way back in 1971 that people were saving Ikes. Of course
few saved very many because a dollar was a lot of money to have sitting idle in storage but they
did it because there was some interest in Ikes. Many of these hoards are long gone now because
a $1000 bag of Ikes is still a lot of money to have sitting idle.
People saved pennies because they could afford to set a lot of coins aside and there was some
interest in pennies. We knew all along people were saving pennies because most coin shops had
a few rolls from time to time. Of course most of the cents aren't very well made or preserved and
many of them are corroded now but most dates are still pretty common.
People saved nickels. Nickels cost a lot more and they didn't save all the years because they for-
got to save a few dates. We knew all along that there were a few nickels being saved because
every once in while we saw rolls. Thos of us who paid attention to the dates that were seen knew
some dates were pretty tough.
But dimes and quarters are just modern junk and almost none of these exist. Nobody seemed to
notice over the years that there weren't any and no one seemed to care in the least.
But no one was systematically collecting any of these coins except for a handful of people who
found things like friendly eagles or type "b" reverses. Almost nobody was concerned with quality
and neither was the mint. Most of the piles of the few coins that exist do not contain gems be-
cause gems are scarce to rare. 220,000 Ikes is short of being certain to have more than just
a few dozen gems and possibly no pop tops. It simply de[pends on chance. Open up a bag of
1974-D Ikes and it can be an entire bag of MS-35. These coins were sometimes run through a
cement mixer to knock off high rims. Even fresh '76-D's can be uglier than dirt.
How many Morgans were released starting in 1963; 20,000,000? This is a tiny fraction and the
odds of scarce coins like CC's or seated dollars or even varieties are very low. The Morgan re-
lease got people collecting these coins for decades. Let's just hope 220,000 will be enough to
stir some interest.
<< <i>
<< <i>Interesting thread, what I get from it is that everyone would like to see more bags be dropped just about every day. Another reason why I don't collect mods, when there are so many minted and obviously unaccountable this type of thing could happen a little too often or just like this one one time with a huge gigantic hoard. Why don't we just be clear for the newbees, no matter how much wishful thinking this will affect the series, you just can't get away from statistics no matter how much wishful thinking there might be. >>
These are Ikes.
People saved Ikes. We knew all the way back in 1971 that people were saving Ikes. Of course
few saved very many because a dollar was a lot of money to have sitting idle in storage but they
did it because there was some interest in Ikes. Many of these hoards are long gone now because
a $1000 bag of Ikes is still a lot of money to have sitting idle.
People saved pennies because they could afford to set a lot of coins aside and there was some
interest in pennies. We knew all along people were saving pennies because most coin shops had
a few rolls from time to time. Of course most of the cents aren't very well made or preserved and
many of them are corroded now but most dates are still pretty common.
People saved nickels. Nickels cost a lot more and they didn't save all the years because they for-
got to save a few dates. We knew all along that there were a few nickels being saved because
every once in while we saw rolls. Thos of us who paid attention to the dates that were seen knew
some dates were pretty tough.
But dimes and quarters are just modern junk and almost none of these exist. Nobody seemed to
notice over the years that there weren't any and no one seemed to care in the least.
But no one was systematically collecting any of these coins except for a handful of people who
found things like friendly eagles or type "b" reverses. Almost nobody was concerned with quality
and neither was the mint. Most of the piles of the few coins that exist do not contain gems be-
cause gems are scarce to rare. 220,000 Ikes is short of being certain to have more than just
a few dozen gems and possibly no pop tops. It simply de[pends on chance. Open up a bag of
1974-D Ikes and it can be an entire bag of MS-35. These coins were sometimes run through a
cement mixer to knock off high rims. Even fresh '76-D's can be uglier than dirt.
How many Morgans were released starting in 1963; 20,000,000? This is a tiny fraction and the
odds of scarce coins like CC's or seated dollars or even varieties are very low. The Morgan re-
lease got people collecting these coins for decades. Let's just hope 220,000 will be enough to
stir some interest. >>
No wonder you are the 'pretender to the throne,' cladking....superb post!!!!!
<< <i>John Hennessey, vice president of marketing for Littleton, estimated the price range per coin will be from $10 to more than several hundred dollars, depending on their condition. >>
Sounds like another great deal from Littleton. Looks like they are lowering their prices.
<< <i>220,000 isn't even the tip of the iceburg..these things were made by the billions! >>
Not quite. Every single BU, mint set coin, special sets, proofs, varieties and even tossing
in all the bicentennial and 40% silver coin adds up to well under a billion.
And the attrition on these is much higher than many of the Morgans. The Morgans sat in
bank vaults for 75 years and the Ikes circulated a little.
How many people tied up a quarter million dollars in Ikes and are still sitting on them two
generations later. This is a fluke.
the newer the coin series the more likely an existing top pop will fall to a greater
coin. That is not a fact but seems reasonable at face value. To argue differently
assumes the person knows something we do not but often just involves spinning
a good tale. And most here know a good tale often sells a coin. Or a an existing
top pop. Or justifying the price of a modern in plastic. etc...
An Ike has to be exceptional to even be worth collecting due to the sheer amount
available. So much so that top pops or very close to it garner all the attention. As
it should be. I hope that this batch of Ikes has dozens of new top pops. Otherwise
it is all so pointless and worth about 1 dollar each. As it should be.
ranting off.
<< <i>Every single type of coin ever minted has top pops. That is a fact. Many feel that
the newer the coin series the more likely an existing top pop will fall to a greater
coin. That is not a fact but seems reasonable at face value. To argue differently
assumes the person knows something we do not but often just involves spinning
a good tale. And most here know a good tale often sells a coin. Or a an existing
top pop. Or justifying the price of a modern in plastic. etc...
An Ike has to be exceptional to even be worth collecting due to the sheer amount
available. So much so that top pops or very close to it garner all the attention. As
it should be. I hope that this batch of Ikes has dozens of new top pops. Otherwise
it is all so pointless and worth about 1 dollar each. As it should be.
ranting off. >>
Nice rant.....makes sense to me.
Just a bunch of real common modern coins, save for any varities or top pops.
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
Considering storage, transportation and handling, I dont see how you go anywhere with them.
At least Morgan hoards have a chance at being melted.
<< <i>An Ike has to be exceptional to even be worth collecting due to the sheer amount
available. >>
I couldn't agree more but every single coin in existence has to be exceptional in some ways to
be "worth collecting". This isn't to say people should spend their AG 1923 Buffs because they are
in no way exceptional, merely that people aren't going to be any more excited by the Buffalo than
an AU '74 Ike.
But non-collectors would be surprised just how little is required for some of the Ikes to be truly
"exceptional". A nice chBU '78-D can be found with little effort but try finding an MS-63 '76-P
type I. This latter coin just comes like junk. In twenty random coins you won't have a single
example that is well made and well preserved. And this applies to the mint set coins while the
ones made for circulation are even worse generally!!
While pop tops are by definition exceptional there are only several dozen collectors who seek
such coins. They can't become "popular" because they'll never be common enough. For pract-
ical purposes the populations of many "pop tops" has already peaked and will start dropping
because of attrition. Even pop tops get caught in fires and floods.
The real "potential" and the real "exceptionality" for Ikes probably lies in the sweet spot of the
grading curve where the few collectors today are not bumping up against supply constraints.
Many Ikes are nearly as scarce in MS-64 as they are in MS-65 or MS-66 but the demand at these
lower grades is not causing higher prices because supplies are ample at this time. But there are
millions of new collectors and some collect Ikes. As they mature as collectors and as the young-
er ones become wealthier they will demand better specimens than their current one. Demand
that can't be satisfied at higher grades will spill into some of these exceptional coins that are
only MS-65 or MS-64. Where surviving populations in the hundreds today isn't even enough to
get them sent in for grading this won't be true if there are thousands or tens of thousands of
collectors who just want a nice attractive specimen.
<< <i>I thought it seemed odd that I received several telephone inquiries today about "What will you pay me for my 1971 silver dollar?" >>
So what did you offer, if anything?
<< <i>The hoard should have gone unfound about 150 years. >>
however, there could be some "rare" (or, "formerly rare
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Edited for spelling.
<< <i>220,000 isn't even the tip of the iceburg..these things were made by the billions! >>
Speaking of billions, have you seen any of the threads on the 25th anniversary set for the SAEs yet?
I know they are around here somewhere..........
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>The hoard should have gone unfound about 150 years. >>
Ok, I'm starting a hoard of 25th Anniversary Sets that will be dumped in 150 years! Any donations to this hoard would be greatly appreciated.
<< <i>One of the reasons why Ike varieties should not be considered rare is because practically no one looks for them, so if you are one of the few obtaining a so-called top pops is doable. I recently received a ole time colelction to review and it had large colelction of all the Ikes, I ignored them. >>
Kind of like die marriages, eh? Why consider varieties rare when hardly anyone looks for them is kind of like saying that die marriages shouldn't be rare because hardly anyone looks for them.
There we go, collecting made easy for the masses!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Not too many dealers would care. Very few would pay more than face for them.
Considering storage, transportation and handling, I dont see how you go anywhere with them.
At least Morgan hoards have a chance at being melted. >>
And I bet Littleton paid less than $500,000 for the lot.
the difference being how many die marriages of Ike's are there when compared to 10 die marriages for let’s say an 1829 10c, and let’s not forget a 200 year age difference to boot. Come on listen yourself you are comparing apples to oranges, my not wanting to look for an Ike variety in a collection is akin to not wanting to look for a used prophylactic in a sewer.
Funny, that sewer connotation is exactly how I would view die marriages of 1829 dimes - truthfully…… but hey, if you like ‘em, put on your rubber gloves, watch out for rats, and go for it. No sweat of my back.
The sheer ignorance of these comments blatantly displays the ignorance and insecurity of a number of people within the hobby. I normally would not waste my time stooping to such unprofessional levels as those, but I guess this time my following comments will at least make me feel better in that fact is spoken. Whether or not it registers in some people’s skulls is a different story. We'll know if it didn't, because they will inevitably feel the need to post rebuttal, scraping together some kind of erroneous justification and spiraling them even further into their self-generated quagmire. A wise man once told me – if you don’t know what you’re talking about, you ought to just shut-up. Opening one's flapper and wording opinion as fact makes one look not to bright.
1. As said over and OVER again on this board for years, no one's bashing anything you collect, why are you trying to force feed your opinions in an ugly and very childish manner to the rest of us, regardless of what anyone else likes or collects? I absolutely abhor presidential dollars and statehood quarters for their token-like appearance. While I collect quite a few of the so-called classics, I think the Barber series coins are some of the most boring designs from our history. Dimes: I have zero appreciation for what I consider pathetic little pieces of garbage, but I do own a few and like them for my toning collection – really like them with the color. Bottom line: none of the aforementioned (and other series/designs) fit my personal taste and therefore they matter very little to me as a collector, so why waste my time (and other’s) by involving myself in those discussions? Why compare them to anything I do collect more heavily - it's all different fruit. For the millionth time: why care what other people collect? What effect is it having on you that is so troublesome?
2. Let's be clear people, NOTHING is rare about an Eisenhower dollar (enter Captain Obvious). I literally laugh out loud at this every time the Ike-bashers feel a massive insecurity complex forcing them to chime in and put Ikes down so that they feel justified about the series they collect, trying to reaffirm the thought that they are "smarter" and more highly regarded collectors because they don’t collect something made within the last 50 years out of metal that’s not labeled precious. Please - I'm pretty sure you put your pants on one leg at a time and breathe the same air I do. Get over yourselves; its coin collecting folks, not the fate of the United Nations.
4. Finding a whole big pile of Ikes exciting? I have no idea why anyone other than an Ike collector would find this exciting. That (to me anyway) seems like a simple concept. Don’t collect Ikes? Then why care about some new hoard.
3. The only rarity about an Eisenhower is CONDITION rarity. Period. It absolutely baffles me that some people still can’t grasp that concept. This leads me to my next point.
4. As far as the "new hoard", yes, things could and absolutely will change. But, anyone who truly collects Ikes and has searched the tens of thousands of coins that each of the serious Ike collectors has, knows full well that the chance of top-pops increasing to anything appreciable is small. Sure, some will arise out of the big pile. However, the likelihood that top pops will flood the market making all current top-pop values fall like rocks is highly doubtful – yes, anything's always possible, but I would even go so far as to say extraordinarily doubtful in this case. If anything, I would expect the second-from-top pops to rise in population far more extensively, and in turn the ratio created between the top-pops and second-top-pops will increase. In other words if for example a current ratio of 40:1 top to second-top pops exist now for a particular date/MM, it could easily go to 70:1. It is quite possible several years down the road that the top pop values actually benefit from this event - who knows, maybe this theory will not pan out at all and be something totally different. No one even knows yet what dates/MM's are involved. What if it turns out to only be 77D or 78D coins?
My enjoyment of building a high end set is a goal for me, but absolutely not because I think I’ll make some gob-stop of money somewhere down the road – I’m a collector; I enjoy the hunt.
I also like Ike dollars because they are coins which were made and which circulated when I was a YN (14-22 years of age), because they are big coins [easier to see with your eyes only], and mostly because so many of them [clad circulation strikes] are so horribly made that when you actually find one that is well made and well preserved you thoroughly enjoy the coin.
I mean everyone wants the highest quality coin [whether you collect VG coins or MS coins]. Nobody wants lousy coins. If high quality coins are hard to find in a given series and you find 1 or 2 after looking at mass quantities of same, you really treasure the good ones you find.
The fact that someone else does not like or collect Ikes [or any other coin] is no reason to denigrate those who do, or for that matter to denigrate Ike dollars as a whole.
I do not care for SBA dollars, nor Sacagewea dollars, nor Presidential dollars, not for that matter Morgan dollars. I like Peace dollars somewhat and really like Seated Liberty and earlier dollars. However, I have seen some SBA dollars that would blow your socks off in beauty and even own one for my 7070 album.
Collect what you want, enjoy what you collect and do not get your knickers twisted over what others do and do not collect.
<< <i>$220,000 face, and Littleton claims more than $1 million? Shows just how much they 'gaffe' their buyers....how 'rare' are common date, no DD, no '72 Type 2's, in MS63 (which they'll consider MS65/66)
But, I'll let Lee chime in before I make any further comment on the already infamous Littleton Coin. >>
DOes this mean I should stop using them as tip money?????
<< <i> However, I have seen some SBA dollars that would blow your socks off in beauty and even own one for my 7070 album. >>
...I was gonna say...
I'm not the SBA's biggest fan either but when I see an '81-S that is virtually flawless and
somewhat PL I forget all about what I like and what I don't. There's just nothing like a truly
spectacular coin to make you forget all the rest. I even forget clad quarters just for a bit or two.
<< <i>I bought a sealed bag of 1972-P IKE'S a few years ago.
I had dreams of TY 2's,,,,,, high grade MS65/66 coins.
When I finished sorting the bag there was not (1) single coin that I considered worthy of submitting. All were MS64 or less
And MS64 was stretching it a bit.
No Ty 2's. All were Ty 3 coins.
GrandAm
If this is typical of the bags Littleton acquired, there is no way the hoard is worth even close to $1 million, unless Littleton sells unloads them to non-collectors in heavily promoted "hoard sales".
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
stir up. On both sides of the aisle. I have never known a series of coin that
can start such heated debates.
Pick a series, Any series besides Eisenhower's
Imagine it being discovered that a variety was determined to have a total population of less
than 10,000 examples
Then imagine it being discovered a few years later the same dies were used to strike
another metal composition of the same year coin.
with a known die life expectancy of 10,000 coins
The coin world would go insane.
Those of you that know Ike's know exactly what I am talking about.
Again a huge thank you to Brian Vaile, John Wexler and the Ike Group
<< <i>Every single type of coin ever minted has top pops. That is a fact. Many feel that
the newer the coin series the more likely an existing top pop will fall to a greater
coin. That is not a fact but seems reasonable at face value. To argue differently
assumes the person knows something we do not but often just involves spinning
a good tale. And most here know a good tale often sells a coin. Or a an existing
top pop. Or justifying the price of a modern in plastic. etc...
An Ike has to be exceptional to even be worth collecting due to the sheer amount
available. So much so that top pops or very close to it garner all the attention. As
it should be. I hope that this batch of Ikes has dozens of new top pops. Otherwise
it is all so pointless and worth about 1 dollar each. As it should be.
ranting off. >>
what he said
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill