2011 25th Anniversary Shipping Dummies
nycounsel
Posts: 1,229 ✭✭
okay, so yesterday I received a box of 2011 25th Anniversary sets purchased on eBay, and the seller simply taped all the edges with priority mail tape, put his own sticky label on top of the original Mint label, and shipped it to me in the original box -- which is not only a bad idea because of the relatively poor quality of the PBGS shipping boxes, but also ruins the chance of a first strike eligibility, since PCGS will have no way to tell if the box was never opened.
The seller was apologetic and agreed to a return, and outside of being out-of-pocket some time and shipping costs, I figured it was a one-off (3 other boxes were received the way I would expect--packaged in another box).
TODAY, I receive ANOTHER box -- again in the original box, taped over by the seller and the Mint label fully covered. I didn't open it and plan to return in unopened condition.
I just don't get it. Why would someone sell a $4000 box of these things and treat it in this manner? IF you are selling something in a Mint sealed box, PUT IT IN ANOTHER BOX BEFORE SHIPPING. I would think that goes without saying, but apparently it doesn't.
The seller was apologetic and agreed to a return, and outside of being out-of-pocket some time and shipping costs, I figured it was a one-off (3 other boxes were received the way I would expect--packaged in another box).
TODAY, I receive ANOTHER box -- again in the original box, taped over by the seller and the Mint label fully covered. I didn't open it and plan to return in unopened condition.
I just don't get it. Why would someone sell a $4000 box of these things and treat it in this manner? IF you are selling something in a Mint sealed box, PUT IT IN ANOTHER BOX BEFORE SHIPPING. I would think that goes without saying, but apparently it doesn't.
Dan
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Comments
Box of 20
Well, it highlights motive perhaps.
Eric
they know the box needs to be sealed but don't know any more beyond that.
like I was saying, this issue has brought out the scalpers who are here solely for the money and not anything coin related in the least.
Box of 20
Some of the seller might not know the details about grading, and some of them might think sealed is good enough to prove the content has not been cherry picked.
I think it is the buyer's responsibility to ensure it is double boxed if it is not written in the item description.
Wrapping in paper is probably a workable solution, though honestly, for the money at stake, I think the reasonable thing to do is to ship in an exterior box. I shipped one of my own (box of five) in an exterior box, it cost me a total of $53 registered insured. I can't imagine the savings would be much to ship in only the original box -- the box (of five) I just received was $34.94 plus insurance and signature confirmation. Maybe it's newbie sellers, but this last one, the guy should have known better.
Agreed-- I'm not trying to be difficult or unreasonable, it's just nuts to me that someone would think it's okay to obscure the original tape and label and that it would still qualify for first strike. Why go to the trouble of selling a sealed box only to ruin it like this? It's interesting that some sellers think this is fine, while the rest go to great lengths to protect the integrity of the original package -- I just received a box that was very well packaged, with air pillows just as you described. I wish everyone were the same; I certainly don't enjoy wasting time and energy fighting over this stuff.
"My item description states the following (exactly as in the auction): "These sets are in-hand and ready to ship in original unopened US Mint box (required if they are to be graded)." I did not state "1st strike eligible" in my auction as I can't guarantee any grades on coins. The box was in fact shipped as stated in the auction-in an unopened US Mint Box. I placed a sheet of black construction paper over the original shipping label and taped over it as to not disturb the original label or tape. The construction paper can be carefully removed and no damage would occur to the exterior box or original label. Again, no specific guarantee was given in the original auction on grading and how they were to grade if sent to a grading company (NGC or PCGS). The exact same technique was used to send another set to another coin company and it was successfully forwarded to the grading company with no issues (again, no guarantee on First Strike or Early Release). "
I don't understand why he's talking about guaranteed grades on coins-- I haven't even opened what he sent me, and the issue isn't about grading, it's about 1st strike eligibility (which he surely understands or wouldn't have mentioned shipping in original unopened box?). Anyway. Based on his response, I'm starting to suspect this guy sent me an open box taped over to pretend it's sealed. While he says his tape doesn't "disturb" the label or tape, that's simply not true, it covers it. I doubt PCGS does forensic examinations of taped over boxes in 1st strike eligibility determinations.
<< <i>So here's what the seller had to say about his shipping method:
"My item description states the following (exactly as in the auction): "These sets are in-hand and ready to ship in original unopened US Mint box (required if they are to be graded)." I did not state "1st strike eligible" in my auction as I can't guarantee any grades on coins. The box was in fact shipped as stated in the auction-in an unopened US Mint Box. I placed a sheet of black construction paper over the original shipping label and taped over it as to not disturb the original label or tape. The construction paper can be carefully removed and no damage would occur to the exterior box or original label. Again, no specific guarantee was given in the original auction on grading and how they were to grade if sent to a grading company (NGC or PCGS). The exact same technique was used to send another set to another coin company and it was successfully forwarded to the grading company with no issues (again, no guarantee on First Strike or Early Release). "
I don't understand why he's talking about guaranteed grades on coins-- I haven't even opened what he sent me, and the issue isn't about grading, it's about 1st strike eligibility (which he surely understands or wouldn't have mentioned shipping in original unopened box?). Anyway. Based on his response, I'm starting to suspect this guy sent me an open box taped over to pretend it's sealed. While he says his tape doesn't "disturb" the label or tape, that's simply not true, it covers it. I doubt PCGS does forensic examinations of taped over boxes in 1st strike eligibility determinations. >>
He said he was shipping it in the original mint box...which means no second box.
Make sure you buy from someone who specifically says the unsealed box is shipped within another box...or buy from me
<< <i>So here's what the seller had to say about his shipping method:
"My item description states the following (exactly as in the auction): "These sets are in-hand and ready to ship in original unopened US Mint box (required if they are to be graded)." I did not state "1st strike eligible" in my auction as I can't guarantee any grades on coins. The box was in fact shipped as stated in the auction-in an unopened US Mint Box. I placed a sheet of black construction paper over the original shipping label and taped over it as to not disturb the original label or tape. The construction paper can be carefully removed and no damage would occur to the exterior box or original label. Again, no specific guarantee was given in the original auction on grading and how they were to grade if sent to a grading company (NGC or PCGS). The exact same technique was used to send another set to another coin company and it was successfully forwarded to the grading company with no issues (again, no guarantee on First Strike or Early Release). "
I don't understand why he's talking about guaranteed grades on coins-- I haven't even opened what he sent me, and the issue isn't about grading, it's about 1st strike eligibility (which he surely understands or wouldn't have mentioned shipping in original unopened box?). Anyway. Based on his response, I'm starting to suspect this guy sent me an open box taped over to pretend it's sealed. While he says his tape doesn't "disturb" the label or tape, that's simply not true, it covers it. I doubt PCGS does forensic examinations of taped over boxes in 1st strike eligibility determinations. >>
He's either stupid, or he thinks he can confuse you with a non sensical argument. Might make a good politician.
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
<< <i>So here's what the seller had to say about his shipping method:
"My item description states the following (exactly as in the auction): "These sets are in-hand and ready to ship in original unopened US Mint box (required if they are to be graded)." I did not state "1st strike eligible" in my auction as I can't guarantee any grades on coins. The box was in fact shipped as stated in the auction-in an unopened US Mint Box. I placed a sheet of black construction paper over the original shipping label and taped over it as to not disturb the original label or tape. The construction paper can be carefully removed and no damage would occur to the exterior box or original label. Again, no specific guarantee was given in the original auction on grading and how they were to grade if sent to a grading company (NGC or PCGS). The exact same technique was used to send another set to another coin company and it was successfully forwarded to the grading company with no issues (again, no guarantee on First Strike or Early Release). "
I don't understand why he's talking about guaranteed grades on coins-- I haven't even opened what he sent me, and the issue isn't about grading, it's about 1st strike eligibility (which he surely understands or wouldn't have mentioned shipping in original unopened box?). Anyway. Based on his response, I'm starting to suspect this guy sent me an open box taped over to pretend it's sealed. While he says his tape doesn't "disturb" the label or tape, that's simply not true, it covers it. I doubt PCGS does forensic examinations of taped over boxes in 1st strike eligibility determinations. >>
Too risky for my tastes. He might as well cover the whole box with construction paper with none of the tape touching the original mint sealed box. I don't know why he does it the way he describes. Dumbfounded.
i understand some people are taking the position that shipping these things in the original shipping box instead of a second box is okay, personally i think that's ridiculous.
"Seller advertised this as original unopened Mint box. He then shipped this by taping over the original tape and label, making it impossible to verify that the original box was never opened. When I received, I did NOT open the box received, and I immediately contacted seller. I offered to return the box. Seller is pretending the issue is about the grade of the coins, when that is not the issue. The issue is that without an original sealed box (which is what he advertised), the coins are not 1st strike eligible. This has a big impact on value, and everyone dealing with these coins knows and understands that. Seller seems to think what he sent was fine; if that's the case, he should accept the return and he can submit them himself or find some other buyer who will believe his misrepresentations. Other sellers I've purchased from did what any rational person would do-- ship a $4000+ item in a protective box -- NOT damage the original and supposedly sealed box (which he advertised) by covering it with tape. "
Seller's response:
"Please read both policies at NGC and PCGS. Both companies never mention "extra tape" or box condition as a condition of grading, only that it comes unopened (they can easily discern this). Here are both policies (I encourage you to read them both): http://www.pcgs.com/Articles/Detail/7012 http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=2409&NGC-l-
abel-for-25-anniversary-eagle-sets As you can see, they are even GRADABLE if they are opened (Wow)."
Seriously, this guy is a jerk. This is not about whether the coins can be graded, and never was. The issue is about 1st strike eligibility and of course sending an untampered with sealed box is key to that. If he succeeds in fooling whoever makes these determinations with his bogus argument... ugh.
Those poor saps that accepted your return may think their box is ruined--it is not, and it is perfectly, 100% acceptable to PCGS.
Now, i have seen, and heard stories about how some boxes were mangled by UPS--and im sure the PO can do their fair share of mangling as well--but unless you drive it to PCGS yourself--you have some risk--no matter what quantity of boxes you use.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
<< <i>I hate to rain on your parade. I have shipped several, at least 5, original boxes in just this manner. put a couple priority stickers on the sides of the box, cover most of the label with the new label, scratch out the remaining PBGS return address ( i did not want it returned to them, lol)--placed my own return on the upper corner, insured and mailed--and PCGS opened them as they open all boxes and all was well--because regardless of how you dress a pig--its still a pig--and a sealed box is readily identified, even with a hastily placed shipping label.
Those poor saps that accepted your return may think their box is ruined--it is not, and it is perfectly, 100% acceptable to PCGS.
Now, i have seen, and heard stories about how some boxes were mangled by UPS--and im sure the PO can do their fair share of mangling as well--but unless you drive it to PCGS yourself--you have some risk--no matter what quantity of boxes you use. >>
I was told that removing the original label voided FS eligibility. One could just take the coins out of the box, inspect them, and get a new box and ship it to PCGS without any stickers and say they just removed them for shipping.
If you don't know what your buying, stad back. If I was spending 4k and knew that the box had to be in another box to qualify for some special designation, I would ask the seller specifically to ship it in a manor I thought necessary, otherwise, no deal.
Aside from a few that committed then backed out, seems like a lot less problems......
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
If you read my original description, it's different from what you describe. Regardless of what Seller stated, in reality he put his own tape over the original tape, and the label is completely covered over. He claims he put paper down first or something, but I sort of doubt PCGS does a forensic investigation of opening sealed boxes, and if they accepted this as a sealed box, it seems it would be pretty easy to fake. You might have shipped several this way, but that hardly makes it a good practice. Anyone selling a sealed box should take care to ensure it's protected, especially so when they're making a 2500 profit on it. Just bad practice to do otherwise.
With ebay/paypal there's more buyer protection (maybe not needed if you know the forum member you're dealing with), plus ebay bucks, etc. can add incentive. Also, from the comments, it seems a fair number of forum members think that shipping a sealed box by slapping some tape and their own label on it is just fine. Still, on balance, I agree, I'd have more confidence dealing with folks in this collector community than the general population.
I almost killed the idiot in charge!
So...it could always be worse.
<< <i>Did I mention that my office's mailroom handed me an OPEN box of 5? Why? Because the shipping box was so large and bulky, they wanted to makes things "easier" for me!!!
I almost killed the idiot in charge!
So...it could always be worse. >>
How could it be worse?
(Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
<< <i>Wow and to think I spend a great deal of time finding the perfect box and enough air pillows to stuff all around the Mint's shipping box before shipping today. Why didn't I just do it like that - NOT!!!!!
Agreed-- I'm not trying to be difficult or unreasonable, it's just nuts to me that someone would think it's okay to obscure the original tape and label and that it would still qualify for first strike. Why go to the trouble of selling a sealed box only to ruin it like this? It's interesting that some sellers think this is fine, while the rest go to great lengths to protect the integrity of the original package -- I just received a box that was very well packaged, with air pillows just as you described. I wish everyone were the same; I certainly don't enjoy wasting time and energy fighting over this stuff. >>
If the box were submitted prior to Dec 7th, it doesn't really mater what the original Mint Shipping Label says. As long as the box is sealed.
The US Mint shipper uses clear packing tape which IMO, should make removing priority mail tape quite easy.
Folks that are planning on hanging onto "original sealed US Mint shipping boxes should start paying attention. Milk Spots "Develop" over time and nothing is more frustrating than buying a sealed box for a premium, submitting it and ending up with spotted 68's.
Also, the current price frenzy has as much to do with NOW as it has to do with First Strike. What this means is that a sealed box in 5 or 10 years may not attrct the same bidding or buying values that the same box would attract today. Primarily because of Milk Spots and the excitment of the Set will be overshadowed by possibly a 30th Anniversary Set.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>seller in this case is: math_314
i understand some people are taking the position that shipping these things in the original shipping box instead of a second box is okay, personally i think that's ridiculous. >>
My box of 5 was sent to PCGS by simply putting my submission form in a 11x13 envelope, then taping the envelope over the original shipping label.
I don't see what's so silly about it since it works just fine. It may not fit into the way that YOU "think" it should be done but it does work without having to shop for a larger box and then stuffing that box with weighty packing material.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Yeah and I just had a Ebay buyer ask me to double box. The guy is getting free shipping, Priority nonetheless and he wants extra? I just told the guy I dont double box since double boxing increases the costs nearly 6x. I will however wrap it in brown paper to keep the seals intact. It gets there just fine and the seal remains >>
How do you figure a 6-fold increase in the cost with double-boxing? A comparably-sized shipping box only costs a few bucks, dosn't weigh that much more, and old newspapers are free.
<< <i>
<< <i>Yeah and I just had a Ebay buyer ask me to double box. The guy is getting free shipping, Priority nonetheless and he wants extra? I just told the guy I dont double box since double boxing increases the costs nearly 6x. I will however wrap it in brown paper to keep the seals intact. It gets there just fine and the seal remains >>
How do you figure a 6-fold increase in the cost with double-boxing? A comparably-sized shipping box only costs a few bucks, dosn't weigh that much more, and old newspapers are free. >>
Quote for a 4 lb box (1 set is less than $7 Priority mail. Add packaging for a bigger box and newspaper and the weight goes up to 5 or 6 pounds. Final price is about $32 shipped via Priority mail. Oh and dont forget that I would need to buy an extra box. It is a fact that the bigger the box is the more the post office will charge you.
what? I sent a double box of five sets by registered priority with insurance, it cost me $53. for a single box, if the cost was so much higher, I'd recommend asking the buyer to chip in towards the additional costs, more likely than not he'd be happy to do that for the extra protection.
made it to you in perfect condition from the US Mint's mailing outlet.
I think the Ebay seller is going to win here.
Sending to PCGS, yourself, is one thing. Sending to another person is another.
Totally classless to be making as much on something as these and NOT have the class to do so.
The seller, in this thread, seems like an argumentative tool.
btw...everyone have a safe and happy Thanksgiving
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
No it doesn't. I got boxes at Office Depot about 2 3" larger which added about 1 lb. to the package and very little to the USPS shipping cost.