Great thread - this newbie thanks all for the info posted here. It's something I've been thinking about, but I still get a headache trying to untangle the USPS publications and web pages.
It seems many here do insure over a certain value, but - thankfully - most have not had losses to actually try to collect.
OK. It looks pretty sure that registered mail/insurance is expensive but covers everything including "Money/Cash/Currency at up to Full Value … Jewelry, Gems, Precious Metals at up to Market Value." Up to $25,000.
But registered seems overly expensive for, say, hobbyists who don't ship often enough to play the odds to self-insure, or ever ship super-high value items. Say only an occasional $100 to $500 item, and maybe a rare item up to $1000.
Non-registered, insured mail looks to often be cheaper, but there are statements at USPS.com and in the quote from Pub 122 M posted like "For negotiable items, gift cards, currency, or bullion, the maximum indemnity is $15."
Maybe I'm wrongly assuming that USPS may try their best to not pay-out what they don't have to. But USPS seems to exclude currency-coins and bullion in one place, and elsewhere mentions the insurability of collectibles at the fair market value.
So is there any official guide to exactly what coins and precious metals are not currency/bullion and thus can be insured and successfully claimed for fair replacement value if lost?
Does anything slabbed = collectible ?
What about coins sold as "bullion" by Mints? Like raw ATBs or Eagles or Maple Leafs? Is it more complicated that they have a denomination - would they pay $0.25 for a 5 oz silver ATB?
Or what about junk silver/pre-1965 silver currency? 1964 Washington quarters are surely negotiable, so are they insurable for only $0.25 each, or for the full silver value at the time of mailing, or only up to $15?
What about coverage of a 1 oz generic silver bar vs a numbered 1 oz Pamp-Suisse gold bar vs a 1 oz Gold Buffalo Proof in OGP vs a 1 oz raw Gold Eagle?
Ouch, my head. My contacts with local USPS gave vague and conflicting opinions. I haven't even started to look at other shippers' policies...
<< <i>When you sell on eBay do you insure your packages? >>
Not if they're under fifty dollars' value. On more valuable shipments, the answer is usually yes. These days I almost always offer free shipping so I'm eating the cost of insurance and find it a waste of money on the cheaper stuff. Of course it's cheaper than eating the whole price of a lost item, but so far so good. USPS hasn't lost one of my outgoing packages in several years, though I've had two or three incoming ones go AWOL in the last five years or so.
<< <i>Just got the response - and it is true, they "do not" cover any kind of coins.
Hard to believe, really...
I apologize for any confusion I caused in this thread!
Numismatists, never use ShipCover for your "insurance" !!!!!
Morons...
John >>
My guess is you got an answer from an $8/hr drone who read the list and gave you a wrong answer. I'd ask again. --jerry >>
Jerry,
Your post has inspired me to do further digging. I have now begun with the eBay "chain of command." After all, it is their contractor. We'll see how many "drones" I have to go through before I get a straight answer! John
John C. Knudsen, LM ANA 2342, LM CSNS 337 SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
As Jeremy stated, Del Confirm up to $250, over $250, if you don't have Sig Confirm, you had really better hope the buyer isn't a sleazeball, because Del Confirm on a package $251 and higher is NO good, regardless if it shows 'delivered'. Been through it. $250 & under, it's ALWAYS Del Confirm. over that, even $250.01, it's ALWAYS Sig Confirm. I use USPS small-box Priority, as well as the USPS Del or Sig Confirms, as the USPS isn't 100% at scanning the Paypal labels. Sure, it's a little more expensive, but considering there will probably be up to 35,000 Postal jobs axed soon, I'll stick with the USPS Confirms and Insurance.
"Q.) What items are excluded from the insurance coverage?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A.) This is very important! The following is a list of exclusions (items not available for coverage): Accounts, bills, currency, cash in transit, evidence of debt, checks, money orders, COD payments, coins (collectible coins are not excluded), securities and other negotiable papers, tickets, deeds, notes, gift cards, manuscripts, documents, neon items, hazardous material (per UPS Hazardous Materials List), LCD monitors or screens, televisions (including LCD, plasma, CRT, projection, and similar), perishable cargo or similar property, eggs, any stone or ceramic slabs, automobiles, motorcycles, live animals, flowers, plants, seeds, cigarettes/cigars, cotton, guns (guns more than 100 years old are not excluded), tobacco, windows, plate glass, stained glass, float glass, laptop computers (including tablet computers, iPads, and similar), and mobile telephones (including cell phones, smart phones, messaging phones, iPhones, android phones, blackberry phones, and similar). If you ship any of these items and purchase our insurance THERE IS NO COVERAGE."
"Q.) What items are excluded from the insurance coverage?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A.) This is very important! The following is a list of exclusions (items not available for coverage): Accounts, bills, currency, cash in transit, evidence of debt, checks, money orders, COD payments, coins (collectible coins are not excluded), securities and other negotiable papers, tickets, deeds, notes, gift cards, manuscripts, documents, neon items, hazardous material (per UPS Hazardous Materials List), LCD monitors or screens, televisions (including LCD, plasma, CRT, projection, and similar), perishable cargo or similar property, eggs, any stone or ceramic slabs, automobiles, motorcycles, live animals, flowers, plants, seeds, cigarettes/cigars, cotton, guns (guns more than 100 years old are not excluded), tobacco, windows, plate glass, stained glass, float glass, laptop computers (including tablet computers, iPads, and similar), and mobile telephones (including cell phones, smart phones, messaging phones, iPhones, android phones, blackberry phones, and similar). If you ship any of these items and purchase our insurance THERE IS NO COVERAGE."
Just to make sure we're covered, everything's insured with either DC, or if over $100, sig. confirmation. If the item's $500 or more it generally goes via insured registered mail, and we're more than happy to stand in line.
Since we send most stuff priority mail insured, we have been using the USPS click n ship site... it only does priority or express (or the international equivalents) but if you need either of those it's very useful. You can actually insure up to $5000 there, get DC or SC, etc.
If you're going first class, etc. then my advice is to go through paypal, NOT ebay. There is indeed a large gray area there when it comes to coins. Ebay is the undisputed king of ambiguous and contradictory policy...do you really want to find out the hard way your items aren't covered?
ShipCover seems "ideal" for first class international coverage - $1 per $100 of value...
I agree, collectible can mean different things to different people. For example, coins of the realm (current change coinage) would not be covered (common sense here), bullion might not be covered (just an educated guess) but something numismatic which sells well above bullion or face value WOULD HAVE TO meet the definition (again, common sense).
For the shipper who ships from eBay internationally via International First Class, or who ships domestically, it is worth looking into, because the rates are cheaper, AND, the claim is filed through eBay in a streamlined process.
What we need is a test case, i.e., someone who used ShipCover to a country not "blocked" for coverage via International First Class. It went amiss, and a claim had to be filed. How long to resolve? Did the seller receive the full eBay purchase price (less S&H, of course), etc.
John
John C. Knudsen, LM ANA 2342, LM CSNS 337 SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
"Q.) What items are excluded from the insurance coverage?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A.) This is very important! The following is a list of exclusions (items not available for coverage): Accounts, bills, currency, cash in transit, evidence of debt, checks, money orders, COD payments, coins (collectible coins are not excluded), securities and other negotiable papers, tickets, deeds, notes, gift cards, manuscripts, documents, neon items, hazardous material (per UPS Hazardous Materials List), LCD monitors or screens, televisions (including LCD, plasma, CRT, projection, and similar), perishable cargo or similar property, eggs, any stone or ceramic slabs, automobiles, motorcycles, live animals, flowers, plants, seeds, cigarettes/cigars, cotton, guns (guns more than 100 years old are not excluded), tobacco, windows, plate glass, stained glass, float glass, laptop computers (including tablet computers, iPads, and similar), and mobile telephones (including cell phones, smart phones, messaging phones, iPhones, android phones, blackberry phones, and similar). If you ship any of these items and purchase our insurance THERE IS NO COVERAGE."
The above link refers to insurance called ShipSaver, is underwritten by Lloyds of London, and has rates that are different from ShipCover. ShipCover's rates are $1.23 per $100 while ShipSaver's are just $.79 per $100. It's my understanding that ShipCover is the current shipping insurance being offered during the eBay checkout procedure - not ShipSaver. The only other option you have during eBay checkout would be USPS insurance (up to $500 declared value).
Again, here is the link to eBay's current shipping insurance offering:
"Q.) What items are excluded from the insurance coverage?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A.) This is very important! The following is a list of exclusions (items not available for coverage): Accounts, bills, currency, cash in transit, evidence of debt, checks, money orders, COD payments, coins (collectible coins are not excluded), securities and other negotiable papers, tickets, deeds, notes, gift cards, manuscripts, documents, neon items, hazardous material (per UPS Hazardous Materials List), LCD monitors or screens, televisions (including LCD, plasma, CRT, projection, and similar), perishable cargo or similar property, eggs, any stone or ceramic slabs, automobiles, motorcycles, live animals, flowers, plants, seeds, cigarettes/cigars, cotton, guns (guns more than 100 years old are not excluded), tobacco, windows, plate glass, stained glass, float glass, laptop computers (including tablet computers, iPads, and similar), and mobile telephones (including cell phones, smart phones, messaging phones, iPhones, android phones, blackberry phones, and similar). If you ship any of these items and purchase our insurance THERE IS NO COVERAGE."
The above link refers to insurance called ShipSaver, is underwritten by Lloyds of London, and has rates that are different from ShipCover. ShipCover's rates are $1.23 per $100 while ShipSaver's are just $.79 per $100. It's my understanding that ShipCover is the current shipping insurance being offered during the eBay checkout procedure - not ShipSaver. The only other option you have during eBay checkout would be USPS insurance (up to $500 declared value).
Again, here is the link to eBay's current shipping insurance offering:
Sorry again for the confusion!!! It is easy to sign up for ShipSaver for eBay. Go to "My Ebay", click on the "APPLICATIONS" tab, and sign up for it. After you sign up for it, it will show up when you do the eBay shipping under the insurance drop-down menu. It is pay as you go.
It figures that they would have two providers with nearly the same name...
Your quote on rates was correct: $0.79 per $100 for domestic / $1 per $100 for first class international. Cheaper than USPS "and" "ShipCover," AND, they cover numismatic collectibles...
John
John C. Knudsen, LM ANA 2342, LM CSNS 337 SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
This ShipSaver looks really promising - not only is it way cheaper but apparently it covers collectible coins. Thanks John. But it's odd that eBay would charge a lot more for less coverage through ShipCover. And keep ShipSaver a secret.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
<< <i>This ShipSaver looks really promising - not only is it way cheaper but apparently it covers collectible coins. Thanks John. But it's odd that eBay would charge a lot more for less coverage through ShipCover. And keep ShipSaver a secret. >>
I have entered into an email correspondence with Greg Sisung, who is the President of inkFrog, Inc., which runs ShipSaver insurance on eBay.
Here is a direct quote regarding numismatic coverage:
Regarding our insurance, you can insure a 'collectible coin' -- the 'money and coins' that are stated in our terms would be selling a $100bill for example (this is not insurable), but a Gold Eagle Proof Coin (for example) would be insurable.
It makes a good impression on me when the president of a company takes the time to answer questions from customers...
Anyway, after my research, it looks like ShipSaver is a definite possibility for anyone selling numismatic items (or other collectibles) on eBay. When you sign up (no cost of course - it is pay as you go linked to your PayPal account), you then have the choice to use USPS or ShipSaver insurance in eBay.
When you sign up via eBay (my ebay - applications - ShipSaver - apply), you get a "canned" email from Greg Sisung, the gentleman mentioned above, and, if you reply to that email, he will personally answer your email... I kind of like that!
John
John C. Knudsen, LM ANA 2342, LM CSNS 337 SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
Comments
Hard to believe, really...
I apologize for any confusion I caused in this thread!
Numismatists, never use ShipCover for your "insurance" !!!!!
Morons...
John
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
It seems many here do insure over a certain value, but - thankfully - most have not had losses to actually try to collect.
OK. It looks pretty sure that registered mail/insurance is expensive but covers everything including "Money/Cash/Currency at up to Full Value … Jewelry, Gems, Precious Metals at up to Market Value." Up to $25,000.
But registered seems overly expensive for, say, hobbyists who don't ship often enough to play the odds to self-insure, or ever ship super-high value items. Say only an occasional $100 to $500 item, and maybe a rare item up to $1000.
Non-registered, insured mail looks to often be cheaper, but there are statements at USPS.com and in the quote from Pub 122 M posted like "For negotiable items, gift cards, currency, or bullion, the maximum indemnity is $15."
Maybe I'm wrongly assuming that USPS may try their best to not pay-out what they don't have to. But USPS seems to exclude currency-coins and bullion in one place, and elsewhere mentions the insurability of collectibles at the fair market value.
So is there any official guide to exactly what coins and precious metals are not currency/bullion and thus can be insured and successfully claimed for fair replacement value if lost?
Does anything slabbed = collectible ?
What about coins sold as "bullion" by Mints? Like raw ATBs or Eagles or Maple Leafs? Is it more complicated that they have a denomination - would they pay $0.25 for a 5 oz silver ATB?
Or what about junk silver/pre-1965 silver currency? 1964 Washington quarters are surely negotiable, so are they insurable for only $0.25 each, or for the full silver value at the time of mailing, or only up to $15?
What about coverage of a 1 oz generic silver bar vs a numbered 1 oz Pamp-Suisse gold bar vs a 1 oz Gold Buffalo Proof in OGP vs a 1 oz raw Gold Eagle?
Ouch, my head. My contacts with local USPS gave vague and conflicting opinions. I haven't even started to look at other shippers' policies...
<< <i>When you sell on eBay do you insure your packages? >>
Not if they're under fifty dollars' value. On more valuable shipments, the answer is usually yes. These days I almost always offer free shipping so I'm eating the cost of insurance and find it a waste of money on the cheaper stuff. Of course it's cheaper than eating the whole price of a lost item, but so far so good. USPS hasn't lost one of my outgoing packages in several years, though I've had two or three incoming ones go AWOL in the last five years or so.
<< <i>Just got the response - and it is true, they "do not" cover any kind of coins.
Hard to believe, really...
I apologize for any confusion I caused in this thread!
Numismatists, never use ShipCover for your "insurance" !!!!!
Morons...
John >>
My guess is you got an answer from an $8/hr drone who read the list and gave you a wrong answer. I'd ask again. --jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>Just got the response - and it is true, they "do not" cover any kind of coins.
Hard to believe, really...
I apologize for any confusion I caused in this thread!
Numismatists, never use ShipCover for your "insurance" !!!!!
Morons...
John >>
My guess is you got an answer from an $8/hr drone who read the list and gave you a wrong answer. I'd ask again. --jerry >>
Jerry,
Your post has inspired me to do further digging. I have now begun with the eBay "chain of command." After all, it is their contractor.
We'll see how many "drones" I have to go through before I get a straight answer!
John
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
<< <i>Delivery Confirmation on everything under $500 over that it's registered / Insured. >>
I agree with this pretty much. For high price item such as over 2K I will charge insurance. Sorry, DC for udner $200, over $200 with be with SC.
"Q.) What items are excluded from the insurance coverage?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A.) This is very important! The following is a list of exclusions (items not available for coverage): Accounts, bills, currency, cash in transit, evidence of debt, checks, money orders, COD payments, coins (collectible coins are not excluded), securities and other negotiable papers, tickets, deeds, notes, gift cards, manuscripts, documents, neon items, hazardous material (per UPS Hazardous Materials List), LCD monitors or screens, televisions (including LCD, plasma, CRT, projection, and similar), perishable cargo or similar property, eggs, any stone or ceramic slabs, automobiles, motorcycles, live animals, flowers, plants, seeds, cigarettes/cigars, cotton, guns (guns more than 100 years old are not excluded), tobacco, windows, plate glass, stained glass, float glass, laptop computers (including tablet computers, iPads, and similar), and mobile telephones (including cell phones, smart phones, messaging phones, iPhones, android phones, blackberry phones, and similar). If you ship any of these items and purchase our insurance THERE IS NO COVERAGE."
eBay ShipCover FAQ
SO THERE!!!!
John
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
<< <i>From the "ShipCover" FAQ at the below link:
"Q.) What items are excluded from the insurance coverage?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A.) This is very important! The following is a list of exclusions (items not available for coverage): Accounts, bills, currency, cash in transit, evidence of debt, checks, money orders, COD payments, coins (collectible coins are not excluded), securities and other negotiable papers, tickets, deeds, notes, gift cards, manuscripts, documents, neon items, hazardous material (per UPS Hazardous Materials List), LCD monitors or screens, televisions (including LCD, plasma, CRT, projection, and similar), perishable cargo or similar property, eggs, any stone or ceramic slabs, automobiles, motorcycles, live animals, flowers, plants, seeds, cigarettes/cigars, cotton, guns (guns more than 100 years old are not excluded), tobacco, windows, plate glass, stained glass, float glass, laptop computers (including tablet computers, iPads, and similar), and mobile telephones (including cell phones, smart phones, messaging phones, iPhones, android phones, blackberry phones, and similar). If you ship any of these items and purchase our insurance THERE IS NO COVERAGE."
eBay ShipCover FAQ
SO THERE!!!!
John >>
What THEY define as "collectible coins" is rather important.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
If the item's $500 or more it generally goes via insured registered mail, and we're more than happy to stand in line.
Since we send most stuff priority mail insured, we have been using the USPS click n ship site... it only does priority or express (or the international equivalents) but if you need either of those it's very useful. You can actually insure up to $5000 there, get DC or SC, etc.
If you're going first class, etc. then my advice is to go through paypal, NOT ebay. There is indeed a large gray area there when it comes to coins. Ebay is the undisputed king of ambiguous and contradictory policy...do you really want to find out the hard way your items aren't covered?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I agree, collectible can mean different things to different people. For example, coins of the realm (current change coinage) would not be
covered (common sense here), bullion might not be covered (just an educated guess) but something numismatic which sells
well above bullion or face value WOULD HAVE TO meet the definition (again, common sense).
For the shipper who ships from eBay internationally via International First Class, or who ships domestically, it is worth looking
into, because the rates are cheaper, AND, the claim is filed through eBay in a streamlined process.
What we need is a test case, i.e., someone who used ShipCover to a country not "blocked" for coverage via International First
Class. It went amiss, and a claim had to be filed. How long to resolve? Did the seller receive the full eBay purchase price (less
S&H, of course), etc.
John
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
<< <i>From the "ShipCover" FAQ at the below link:
"Q.) What items are excluded from the insurance coverage?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A.) This is very important! The following is a list of exclusions (items not available for coverage): Accounts, bills, currency, cash in transit, evidence of debt, checks, money orders, COD payments, coins (collectible coins are not excluded), securities and other negotiable papers, tickets, deeds, notes, gift cards, manuscripts, documents, neon items, hazardous material (per UPS Hazardous Materials List), LCD monitors or screens, televisions (including LCD, plasma, CRT, projection, and similar), perishable cargo or similar property, eggs, any stone or ceramic slabs, automobiles, motorcycles, live animals, flowers, plants, seeds, cigarettes/cigars, cotton, guns (guns more than 100 years old are not excluded), tobacco, windows, plate glass, stained glass, float glass, laptop computers (including tablet computers, iPads, and similar), and mobile telephones (including cell phones, smart phones, messaging phones, iPhones, android phones, blackberry phones, and similar). If you ship any of these items and purchase our insurance THERE IS NO COVERAGE."
eBay ShipCover FAQ
SO THERE!!!!
John >>
The above link refers to insurance called ShipSaver, is underwritten by Lloyds of London, and has rates that are different from ShipCover. ShipCover's rates are $1.23 per $100 while ShipSaver's are just $.79 per $100. It's my understanding that ShipCover is the current shipping insurance being offered during the eBay checkout procedure - not ShipSaver. The only other option you have during eBay checkout would be USPS insurance (up to $500 declared value).
Again, here is the link to eBay's current shipping insurance offering:
ShipCover
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i>
<< <i>From the "ShipCover" FAQ at the below link:
"Q.) What items are excluded from the insurance coverage?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A.) This is very important! The following is a list of exclusions (items not available for coverage): Accounts, bills, currency, cash in transit, evidence of debt, checks, money orders, COD payments, coins (collectible coins are not excluded), securities and other negotiable papers, tickets, deeds, notes, gift cards, manuscripts, documents, neon items, hazardous material (per UPS Hazardous Materials List), LCD monitors or screens, televisions (including LCD, plasma, CRT, projection, and similar), perishable cargo or similar property, eggs, any stone or ceramic slabs, automobiles, motorcycles, live animals, flowers, plants, seeds, cigarettes/cigars, cotton, guns (guns more than 100 years old are not excluded), tobacco, windows, plate glass, stained glass, float glass, laptop computers (including tablet computers, iPads, and similar), and mobile telephones (including cell phones, smart phones, messaging phones, iPhones, android phones, blackberry phones, and similar). If you ship any of these items and purchase our insurance THERE IS NO COVERAGE."
eBay ShipCover FAQ
SO THERE!!!!
John >>
The above link refers to insurance called ShipSaver, is underwritten by Lloyds of London, and has rates that are different from ShipCover. ShipCover's rates are $1.23 per $100 while ShipSaver's are just $.79 per $100. It's my understanding that ShipCover is the current shipping insurance being offered during the eBay checkout procedure - not ShipSaver. The only other option you have during eBay checkout would be USPS insurance (up to $500 declared value).
Again, here is the link to eBay's current shipping insurance offering:
ShipCover >>
Sorry again for the confusion!!!
It is easy to sign up for ShipSaver for eBay. Go to "My Ebay", click on the "APPLICATIONS" tab, and sign up for it.
After you sign up for it, it will show up when you do the eBay shipping under the insurance drop-down menu. It is
pay as you go.
It figures that they would have two providers with nearly the same name...
Your quote on rates was correct: $0.79 per $100 for domestic / $1 per $100 for first class international.
Cheaper than USPS "and" "ShipCover," AND, they cover numismatic collectibles...
John
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
This ShipSaver looks really promising - not only is it way cheaper but apparently it covers collectible coins. Thanks John. But it's odd that eBay would charge a lot more for less coverage through ShipCover. And keep ShipSaver a secret.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i>This ShipSaver looks really promising - not only is it way cheaper but apparently it covers collectible coins. Thanks John. But it's odd that eBay would charge a lot more for less coverage through ShipCover. And keep ShipSaver a secret.
I have entered into an email correspondence with Greg Sisung, who is the President of inkFrog, Inc., which runs ShipSaver insurance on eBay.
Here is a direct quote regarding numismatic coverage:
Regarding our insurance, you can insure a 'collectible coin' -- the 'money and coins' that are stated in our terms would be selling a $100bill for example (this is not insurable), but a Gold Eagle Proof Coin (for example) would be insurable.
It makes a good impression on me when the president of a company takes the time to answer questions from customers...
Anyway, after my research, it looks like ShipSaver is a definite possibility for anyone selling numismatic items (or other collectibles) on eBay.
When you sign up (no cost of course - it is pay as you go linked to your PayPal account), you then have the choice to use USPS or ShipSaver
insurance in eBay.
When you sign up via eBay (my ebay - applications - ShipSaver - apply), you get a "canned" email from Greg Sisung, the gentleman mentioned above, and,
if you reply to that email, he will personally answer your email... I kind of like that!
John
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994