I've tried to read all the pertinent replies and from what I understand this parcel was tracked to your local PO and they can't seem to find it. Is that correct?
Also, I did not see if the buyer ever sent you the number that the insurance slip has on it. Did he?
If not and my first question was not correct, then how do you know this person even sent this parcel back?
I'm sorry for the stress you appear to be in. But your opening statement left much information out.
<< <i>Has anyone actually collected on a lost coin like this? I am thinking that even with the insurance the USPS may have refused to pay $2000. >>
Ive been thinking that too , without a sales receipt or invoice of some description reflecting the cost i don't see premiums coming into play.I'm assuming there was no paperwork though.
They are not real clear to me but looking over the USPS insurance guidelines it says that with the exception of Registered mail the limit on cash or bullion is $15. I don't know if they would consider a silver coin bullion and I could not find clarificaition either.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>I've tried to read all the pertinent replies and from what I understand this parcel was tracked to your local PO and they can't seem to find it. Is that correct?
Also, I did not see if the buyer ever sent you the number that the insurance slip has on it. Did he?
If not and my first question was not correct, then how do you know this person even sent this parcel back?
I'm sorry for the stress you appear to be in. But your opening statement left much information out. >>
I believe from the information in the thread that your first question was correct. The coin arrived at his PO and then apparently vanished. If I was the buyer/shipper and had a postal account I would go online and file a claim NOW. At least it would get someone's attention.
<< <i>If it was supposed to arrive via Priority Mail by Friday or Saturday then at this time I would imagine the case is more likely that of a delayed delivery rather than a lost coin. Regardless, I still would not be happy with the person who insured it for only $300. >>
I have to agree with Tom. This thread may be premature.
<< <i>USPS will NOT reimburse TonedRarities for anything since TonedRarities didn't mail or pay for the insurance. The fellow that shipped the coin back has to process the $300 insurance claim and forward the money to TR. >>
The post office will reimburse TonedRarities directly if the shipper, (the buyer), selects that option on the claim form.
<< <i>They are not real clear to me but looking over the USPS insurance guidelines it says that with the exception of Registered mail the limit on cash or bullion is $15. I don't know if they would consider a silver coin bullion and I could not find clarificaition either. >>
A collectible coin, such as this Peace Dollar, is not considered to be cash or bullion.
<< <i>Has anyone actually collected on a lost coin like this? I am thinking that even with the insurance the USPS may have refused to pay $2000. >>
Of course they'll refuse to pay $2000. It was only insured for $300.
Russ, NCNE >>
I meant to say even if it was insured for $2000. Would they dispute the value or even limit the payout by considering it bullion? Only experience could shed light on that it seems.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>Has anyone actually collected on a lost coin like this? I am thinking that even with the insurance the USPS may have refused to pay $2000. >>
Of course they'll refuse to pay $2000. It was only insured for $300.
Russ, NCNE >>
I meant to say even if it was insured for $2000. Would they dispute the value or even limit the payout by considering it bullion? Only experience could shed light on that it seems. >>
I think in that case they would ask a local coin dealer or "expert" to evaluate the coin in question.
I think in that case they would ask a local coin dealer or "expert" to evaluate the coin in question.
I hope not. My local dealers would all value the coin at $55-$300. Not much help to the seller. If the USPS went by the "reasonable" dealer theory (ie how would 70-90% of dealers value this), it would be a disaster.
<< <i>Has anyone actually collected on a lost coin like this? I am thinking that even with the insurance the USPS may have refused to pay $2000. >>
Of course they'll refuse to pay $2000. It was only insured for $300.
Russ, NCNE >>
I meant to say even if it was insured for $2000. Would they dispute the value or even limit the payout by considering it bullion? Only experience could shed light on that it seems. >>
It is up to the party making the claim to prove/establish value. If you have an agreement to purchase at $2K then that is the value for that transaction.
<< <i>Has anyone actually collected on a lost coin like this? I am thinking that even with the insurance the USPS may have refused to pay $2000. >>
Of course they'll refuse to pay $2000. It was only insured for $300.
Russ, NCNE >>
I meant to say even if it was insured for $2000. Would they dispute the value or even limit the payout by considering it bullion? Only experience could shed light on that it seems. >>
I think in that case they would ask a local coin dealer or "expert" to evaluate the coin in question. >>
If I went to your computer and logged onto PCGS and showed you a PM discussing a $2K value for the coin, would you accept that as the value or could I be guilty of somehow rigging/altering the PM?
<< <i>Has anyone actually collected on a lost coin like this? I am thinking that even with the insurance the USPS may have refused to pay $2000. >>
Of course they'll refuse to pay $2000. It was only insured for $300.
Russ, NCNE >>
I meant to say even if it was insured for $2000. Would they dispute the value or even limit the payout by considering it bullion? Only experience could shed light on that it seems. >>
I think in that case they would ask a local coin dealer or "expert" to evaluate the coin in question. >>
If I went to your computer and logged onto PCGS and showed you a PM discussing a $2K value for the coin, would you accept that as the value or could I be guilty of somehow rigging/altering the PM? >>
USPS's reply: "if was worth $2000 why did you return it."
<< <i>Has anyone actually collected on a lost coin like this? I am thinking that even with the insurance the USPS may have refused to pay $2000. >>
Of course they'll refuse to pay $2000. It was only insured for $300.
Russ, NCNE >>
I meant to say even if it was insured for $2000. Would they dispute the value or even limit the payout by considering it bullion? Only experience could shed light on that it seems. >>
I think in that case they would ask a local coin dealer or "expert" to evaluate the coin in question. >>
If I went to your computer and logged onto PCGS and showed you a PM discussing a $2K value for the coin, would you accept that as the value or could I be guilty of somehow rigging/altering the PM? >>
USPS's reply: "if was worth $2000 why did you return it." >>
I'm guessing that after he got the coin in hand he wasn't as enamored with it as he was from the pix or he got buyer's remorse about spending that much money on it. It doesn't mean that the coin still wasn't worth it. I have returned CAC coins to Teletrade because I wasn't happy with the eye appeal, but that doesn't mean I thought the coins were worth less.
I wonder if the buyer would have underinsured if he had paid the whole $2K up front.
<< <i>I think you should out the buyer to make sure I dont ever send them a coin. >>
Probably a tad premature since there is a chance the coin could turn up. >>
Sorry bajjer I have to disagree with you. I dont want to send a coin to someone with an asking price of 2k and have them send it back to me insured for 300.00, I dont care if it gets lost in the mail or not I just want to know I am at least covered for the value of the coin that was quoted.
Next time have his credit card number on file. Someone owes you 2k. Next time protect yourself. It's nice to be the trusting seller, but crap happens and that's when relationships can go bad. Hope you learn your lessen. I'm afraid your getting screwed on this deal. Sorry, the idiot should have insured it for the full amount. The risk was yours.
Winner of the "You Suck!" award March 17, 2010 by LanLord, doh, 123cents and Bear.
When you think about it, how crazy is it you pay for a level of service, in this case 2K worth of insurance (hypothetical) and to not have that contract not honored until you provide evidence not only that you paid but also the value of the insured item, to receive your payout.
The post office shouldn't care what value you place on the insured item, only the level of insurance you purchased. Package not delivered? Pay the claim.
The above is only an exercise of logic as first, the PO will never adopt such policy and two, like others have expressed, the coin will probably show up, magically or otherwise.
<< <i>I think you should out the buyer to make sure I dont ever send them a coin. >>
Probably a tad premature since there is a chance the coin could turn up. >>
Sorry bajjer I have to disagree with you. I dont want to send a coin to someone with an asking price of 2k and have them send it back to me insured for 300.00, I dont care if it gets lost in the mail or not I just want to know I am at least covered for the value of the coin that was quoted. >>
Easy solution. Get paid upfront first. That way you will have the leverage in the event of a similar predicament.
As I see it the buyer could have sent it back registered, uninsured [delivery probably guaranteed] for about $25. Instead he chose to spend about $10. So he is risking his reputation here for about $15. If the coin ends up undelivered his credits are his $200 down and $300 in unrealized insurance claims. Thus he will now need to cough up about $1500 in order to salvage his reputation here or limit himself to cash upfront deals only.
FWIW I have had one positive experience with the buyer and recently provided a reference on his behalf to another member here.
Do you have a right to be angry. Yes. Are you entitled to $2,000? Not necessarily. You are entitled to the fair market value of the coin, which might be less than $2,000, or perhaps more than $2,000. Sorry to sound like a contrarian, but despite all of the happy talk here that is what you are entitled to recover from the would be buyer. Just because you wanted $2,000 for it does not mean that that is what it is worth or what your loss is.
Lets also consider why the provable value is what you are entitled to receive and not the asking price. Suppose someone acquires a harshly cleaned or whizzed Morgan for $35 and artificially tones it. He then lists it for sale for $2,000. A potential buyer receives it on approval and upon inspection sees it for what it is --something worth melt. The prospective buyer is ticked off and returns it, and insures it for $300 which is way more than it is really worth. If it is lost in the mail is the seller (who if he had it listed on ebay everyone here would be piling on and calling him a swindler and crook) entitled to $2,000? The answer is no, regardless of what the "he owes you $2,000" crowd here may think.
I am not implying that you are a swindler or a crook. Rather I am just trying to put into reality what you are entitled to recover. Lets start with what your cost was. That might be a clue to what it is worth and what your loss is. Of course, as someone else mentioned, what you are "entitled" to recover means little if you have no means of getting the money from the other guy.
I'm on the OP's side on this, but I still haven't seen a reply where I have asked 2 questions:
1) Is there proof that it was given to a post office and not just handled online where it may not have been handed to a USPS employee yet (or even put in the mailbox, or a dropbox, etc)? 2) Is the buyer a forum member?
<< <i>Do you have a right to be angry. Yes. Are you entitled to $2,000? Not necessarily. You are entitled to the fair market value of the coin, which might be less than $2,000, or perhaps more than $2,000. Sorry to sound like a contrarian, but despite all of the happy talk here that is what you are entitled to recover from the would be buyer. Just because you wanted $2,000 for it does not mean that that is what it is worth or what your loss is.
Lets also consider why the provable value is what you are entitled to receive and not the asking price. Suppose someone acquires a harshly cleaned or whizzed Morgan for $35 and artificially tones it. He then lists it for sale for $2,000. A potential buyer receives it on approval and upon inspection sees it for what it is --something worth melt. The prospective buyer is ticked off and returns it, and insures it for $300 which is way more than it is really worth. If it is lost in the mail is the seller (who if he had it listed on ebay everyone here would be piling on and calling him a swindler and crook) entitled to $2,000? The answer is no, regardless of what the "he owes you $2,000" crowd here may think.
I am not implying that you are a swindler or a crook. Rather I am just trying to put into reality what you are entitled to recover. Lets start with what your cost was. That might be a clue to what it is worth and what your loss is. Of course, as someone else mentioned, what you are "entitled" to recover means little if you have no means of getting the money from the other guy.
CG >>
sorry but your logic has no play into this whole scenario whatsoever. Leads me to believe you did not read anything in this thread. Obviously if 3-4 people have already ASKED to purchase the coin, a few being in this thread for $1500 then my asking price of $2000 wasnt absurd.
<< <i>I'm on the OP's side on this, but I still haven't seen a reply where I have asked 2 questions:
1) Is there proof that it was given to a post office and not just handled online where it may not have been handed to a USPS employee yet (or even put in the mailbox, or a dropbox, etc)? 2) Is the buyer a forum member? >>
he gave me a tracking number that isnt even trackable online. and yes he is a forum member
Cool it man. I never said that your price was absured. I said that a seller's asking price does not fix the fair value of a lost coin. And you are correct that I did not read all 170 posts in this thread but that is of no significance. Your purchase price was less than $2,000 and may be indicative that your loss is $1,500 and not $2,000. But go on beliving the happy talk guys if that makes you happy.
<< <i>Cool it man. I never said that your price was absured. I said that a seller's asking price does not fix the fair value of a lost coin. And you are correct that I did not read all 170 posts in this thread but that is of no significance. Your purchase price was less than $2,000 and may be indicative that your loss is $1,500 and not $2,000. But go on beliving the happy talk guys if that makes you happy.
CG >>
the toned coin market has no fair value for a coin. two of the same coins, same date, same grade could be thousands apart because of toning.
<< <i>I'm on the OP's side on this, but I still haven't seen a reply where I have asked 2 questions:
1) Is there proof that it was given to a post office and not just handled online where it may not have been handed to a USPS employee yet (or even put in the mailbox, or a dropbox, etc)? 2) Is the buyer a forum member? >>
he gave me a tracking number that isnt even trackable online. and yes he is a forum member >>
Holy CHIT! A member here, why didn't you state that in the beginning, I thought he was an unknown via ebay....WoW I am shocked to say the least! The member needs to make you whole NOW! If the usps reimburses him, fine he keeps the stupid $300 that he ridiculously insured it for. But he has to make you whole now, this is now unacceptable imho! Edited to add, he needs to pay you $1800 immediately, since he paid 10% down. >>
well just PMed the buyer letting him know he just bought a $2000 peace dollar. Will let you guys know what he says in the AM. off to bed!
<< <i>Still hoping the coin shows up... How long has it been M.I.A. >>
it was suppose to show up either friday or yesterday i was told. It still hasnt shown up >>
Am I the only one that finds this funny? >>
Considering it's USPS it is amusing , Monday morning will tell it's own story.I can't help but notice though having read the thread nowhere is blame aportioned to the USPS who by account have it or misplaced it , the whole thread seems to be about pushing a highly unlikely 2k sale through.
<< <i>Still hoping the coin shows up... How long has it been M.I.A. >>
it was suppose to show up either friday or yesterday i was told. It still hasnt shown up >>
Am I the only one that finds this funny? >>
Considering it's USPS it is amusing , Monday morning will tell it's own story.I can't help but notice though having read the thread nowhere is blame aportioned to the USPS who by account have it or misplaced it , the whole thread seems to be about pushing a highly unlikely 2k sale through. >>
USPS is at fault no doubt about that. None of this would of happened if he insured it for the right amount. I could care less if the $2000 sale went through as it would of just been sold a few days later for $1500.
I wouldn't be as sure it's missing , i thought i read earlier posts regarding it's not traceable/trackable ? I'd lay money you'll see it in the morning if i were a gambler.
<< <i>I'm on the OP's side on this, but I still haven't seen a reply where I have asked 2 questions:
1) Is there proof that it was given to a post office and not just handled online where it may not have been handed to a USPS employee yet (or even put in the mailbox, or a dropbox, etc)? 2) Is the buyer a forum member? >>
he gave me a tracking number that isnt even trackable online. and yes he is a forum member >>
He could have transposed numbers or just typed it wrong.... If he did it online, he could find his copy and double check the number. If he took it to a post office branch, he could find his receipt and check the number.
I had a hunch it was a forum member....over the years, having seen too many of these types of threads, one starts getting a sixth sense; which is why I asked a few times for that. Thank you for the answer. Given the coin and amount you valued it at, I would even go out on a limb and say it was likely an "established" member and not just a new person....
<< <i>I'm on the OP's side on this, but I still haven't seen a reply where I have asked 2 questions:
1) Is there proof that it was given to a post office and not just handled online where it may not have been handed to a USPS employee yet (or even put in the mailbox, or a dropbox, etc)? 2) Is the buyer a forum member? >>
he gave me a tracking number that isnt even trackable online. and yes he is a forum member >>
He could have transposed numbers or just typed it wrong.... If he did it online, he could find his copy and double check the number. If he took it to a post office branch, he could find his receipt and check the number.
I had a hunch it was a forum member....over the years, having seen too many of these types of threads, one starts getting a sixth sense; which is why I asked a few times for that. Thank you for the answer. Given the coin and amount you valued it at, I would even go out on a limb and say it was likely an "established" member and not just a new person.... >>
A good point about entering the number wrong Ron , i did it just recently to multiple items , each had one 0 missing and sure as green apples the packages were slow and people complained about non working tracking numbers.It was actually a customer who figured out why on arrival of his.
<< <i> I had a hunch it was a forum member....over the years, having seen too many of these types of threads, one starts getting a sixth sense; which is why I asked a few times for that. Thank you for the answer. Given the coin and amount you valued it at, I would even go out on a limb and say it was likely an "established" member and not just a new person.... >>
A good point about entering the number wrong Ron , i did it just recently to multiple items , each had one 0 missing and sure as green apples the packages were slow and people complained about non working tracking numbers.It was actually a customer who figured out why on arrival of his. >>
I have to deal with problems at work every day...it's my job. So, I try to take a look at all the info given, what may be missing for info, and what could have happened....then I try to eliminate potential problems/excuses.
In this case, it is probably easier for me to try to think of possibilities like this because I don't know who the other party is and I don't have a pony in this show on either side...I can be more rational I hope it is just a misunderstanding on the number and that the coin shows up asap.....still doesn't excuse the buyer for purposefully underinsuring like he did......no matter what HE thought the coin was worth, if it was out on approval for $2000, then it should have gone back that way (or at least registered). Sad, but certainly not a potential buyer I would want to deal with and I wish I knew who it was.
<< <i> I had a hunch it was a forum member....over the years, having seen too many of these types of threads, one starts getting a sixth sense; which is why I asked a few times for that. Thank you for the answer. Given the coin and amount you valued it at, I would even go out on a limb and say it was likely an "established" member and not just a new person.... >>
A good point about entering the number wrong Ron , i did it just recently to multiple items , each had one 0 missing and sure as green apples the packages were slow and people complained about non working tracking numbers.It was actually a customer who figured out why on arrival of his. >>
I have to deal with problems at work every day...it's my job. So, I try to take a look at all the info given, what may be missing for info, and what could have happened....then I try to eliminate potential problems/excuses.
In this case, it is probably easier for me to try to think of possibilities like this because I don't know who the other party is and I don't have a pony in this show on either side...I can be more rational I hope it is just a misunderstanding on the number and that the coin shows up asap.....still doesn't excuse the buyer for purposefully underinsuring like he did......no matter what HE thought the coin was worth, if it was out on approval for $2000, then it should have gone back that way (or at least registered). Sad, but certainly not a potential buyer I would want to deal with and I wish I knew who it was. >>
believe me if this is not resolved with either my coin returned to me or the money, he will be outed here and on other coin sites as well.
I would totally agree if the coin was sent on approval in such a manner , insured for the 2k in the first place. I don't know if that was mentioned or not.Ive never had to return a coin but without question i'd return it using the method it had arrived.
Comments
and they can't seem to find it. Is that correct?
Also, I did not see if the buyer ever sent you the number that the insurance slip has on it. Did he?
If not and my first question was not correct, then how do you know this person even sent this parcel back?
I'm sorry for the stress you appear to be in. But your opening statement left much information out.
<< <i>Has anyone actually collected on a lost coin like this? I am thinking that even with the insurance the USPS may have refused to pay $2000. >>
Ive been thinking that too , without a sales receipt or invoice of some description reflecting the cost i don't see premiums coming into play.I'm assuming there was no paperwork though.
<< <i>I've tried to read all the pertinent replies and from what I understand this parcel was tracked to your local PO
and they can't seem to find it. Is that correct?
Also, I did not see if the buyer ever sent you the number that the insurance slip has on it. Did he?
If not and my first question was not correct, then how do you know this person even sent this parcel back?
I'm sorry for the stress you appear to be in. But your opening statement left much information out. >>
I believe from the information in the thread that your first question was correct. The coin arrived at his PO and then apparently vanished. If I was the buyer/shipper and had a postal account I would go online and file a claim NOW. At least it would get someone's attention.
<< <i>If it was supposed to arrive via Priority Mail by Friday or Saturday then at this time I would imagine the case is more likely that of a delayed delivery rather than a lost coin. Regardless, I still would not be happy with the person who insured it for only $300. >>
I have to agree with Tom. This thread may be premature.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>USPS will NOT reimburse TonedRarities for anything since TonedRarities didn't mail or pay for the insurance. The fellow that shipped the coin back has to process the $300 insurance claim and forward the money to TR. >>
The post office will reimburse TonedRarities directly if the shipper, (the buyer), selects that option on the claim form.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Has anyone actually collected on a lost coin like this? I am thinking that even with the insurance the USPS may have refused to pay $2000. >>
Of course they'll refuse to pay $2000. It was only insured for $300.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>They are not real clear to me but looking over the USPS insurance guidelines it says that with the exception of Registered mail the limit on cash or bullion is $15. I don't know if they would consider a silver coin bullion and I could not find clarificaition either. >>
A collectible coin, such as this Peace Dollar, is not considered to be cash or bullion.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>Has anyone actually collected on a lost coin like this? I am thinking that even with the insurance the USPS may have refused to pay $2000. >>
Of course they'll refuse to pay $2000. It was only insured for $300.
Russ, NCNE >>
I meant to say even if it was insured for $2000. Would they dispute the value or even limit the payout by considering it bullion? Only experience could shed light on that it seems.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Has anyone actually collected on a lost coin like this? I am thinking that even with the insurance the USPS may have refused to pay $2000. >>
Of course they'll refuse to pay $2000. It was only insured for $300.
Russ, NCNE >>
I meant to say even if it was insured for $2000. Would they dispute the value or even limit the payout by considering it bullion? Only experience could shed light on that it seems. >>
I think in that case they would ask a local coin dealer or "expert" to evaluate the coin in question.
I hope not. My local dealers would all value the coin at $55-$300. Not much help to the seller. If the USPS went by the "reasonable" dealer theory (ie how would 70-90%
of dealers value this), it would be a disaster.
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Has anyone actually collected on a lost coin like this? I am thinking that even with the insurance the USPS may have refused to pay $2000. >>
Of course they'll refuse to pay $2000. It was only insured for $300.
Russ, NCNE >>
I meant to say even if it was insured for $2000. Would they dispute the value or even limit the payout by considering it bullion? Only experience could shed light on that it seems. >>
It is up to the party making the claim to prove/establish value. If you have an agreement to purchase at $2K then that is the value for that transaction.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Has anyone actually collected on a lost coin like this? I am thinking that even with the insurance the USPS may have refused to pay $2000. >>
Of course they'll refuse to pay $2000. It was only insured for $300.
Russ, NCNE >>
I meant to say even if it was insured for $2000. Would they dispute the value or even limit the payout by considering it bullion? Only experience could shed light on that it seems. >>
I think in that case they would ask a local coin dealer or "expert" to evaluate the coin in question. >>
If I went to your computer and logged onto PCGS and showed you a PM discussing a $2K value for the coin, would you accept that as the value or could I be guilty of somehow rigging/altering the PM?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Has anyone actually collected on a lost coin like this? I am thinking that even with the insurance the USPS may have refused to pay $2000. >>
Of course they'll refuse to pay $2000. It was only insured for $300.
Russ, NCNE >>
I meant to say even if it was insured for $2000. Would they dispute the value or even limit the payout by considering it bullion? Only experience could shed light on that it seems. >>
I think in that case they would ask a local coin dealer or "expert" to evaluate the coin in question. >>
If I went to your computer and logged onto PCGS and showed you a PM discussing a $2K value for the coin, would you accept that as the value or could I be guilty of somehow rigging/altering the PM? >>
USPS's reply: "if was worth $2000 why did you return it."
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Has anyone actually collected on a lost coin like this? I am thinking that even with the insurance the USPS may have refused to pay $2000. >>
Of course they'll refuse to pay $2000. It was only insured for $300.
Russ, NCNE >>
I meant to say even if it was insured for $2000. Would they dispute the value or even limit the payout by considering it bullion? Only experience could shed light on that it seems. >>
I think in that case they would ask a local coin dealer or "expert" to evaluate the coin in question. >>
If I went to your computer and logged onto PCGS and showed you a PM discussing a $2K value for the coin, would you accept that as the value or could I be guilty of somehow rigging/altering the PM? >>
USPS's reply: "if was worth $2000 why did you return it." >>
I'm guessing that after he got the coin in hand he wasn't as enamored with it as he was from the pix or he got buyer's remorse about spending that much money on it. It doesn't mean that the coin still wasn't worth it. I have returned CAC coins to Teletrade because I wasn't happy with the eye appeal, but that doesn't mean I thought the coins were worth less.
I wonder if the buyer would have underinsured if he had paid the whole $2K up front.
<< <i>I think in that case they would ask a local coin dealer or "expert" to evaluate the coin in question. >>
Stealer
If 'lost' how can they have someone evaluate it?
They could do that only if it was damaged.
<< <i>I think you should out the buyer to make sure I dont ever send them a coin. >>
Probably a tad premature since there is a chance the coin could turn up.
<< <i>The buyer is guilty, book him Dano.
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>
<< <i>I think you should out the buyer to make sure I dont ever send them a coin. >>
Probably a tad premature since there is a chance the coin could turn up. >>
Sorry bajjer I have to disagree with you. I dont want to send a coin to someone with an asking price of 2k and have them send it back to me insured for 300.00, I dont care if it gets lost in the mail or not I just want to know I am at least covered for the value of the coin that was quoted.
The post office shouldn't care what value you place on the insured item, only the level of insurance you purchased. Package not delivered? Pay the claim.
The above is only an exercise of logic as first, the PO will never adopt such policy and two, like others have expressed, the coin will probably show up, magically or otherwise.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I think you should out the buyer to make sure I dont ever send them a coin. >>
Probably a tad premature since there is a chance the coin could turn up. >>
Sorry bajjer I have to disagree with you. I dont want to send a coin to someone with an asking price of 2k and have them send it back to me insured for 300.00, I dont care if it gets lost in the mail or not I just want to know I am at least covered for the value of the coin that was quoted. >>
Easy solution. Get paid upfront first. That way you will have the leverage in the event of a similar predicament.
As I see it the buyer could have sent it back registered, uninsured [delivery probably guaranteed] for about $25. Instead he chose to spend about $10. So he is risking his reputation here for about $15. If the coin ends up undelivered his credits are his $200 down and $300 in unrealized insurance claims. Thus he will now need to cough up about $1500 in order to salvage his reputation here or limit himself to cash upfront deals only.
FWIW I have had one positive experience with the buyer and recently provided a reference on his behalf to another member here.
Lets also consider why the provable value is what you are entitled to receive and not the asking price. Suppose someone acquires a harshly cleaned or whizzed Morgan for $35 and artificially tones it. He then lists it for sale for $2,000. A potential buyer receives it on approval and upon inspection sees it for what it is --something worth melt. The prospective buyer is ticked off and returns it, and insures it for $300 which is way more than it is really worth. If it is lost in the mail is the seller (who if he had it listed on ebay everyone here would be piling on and calling him a swindler and crook) entitled to $2,000? The answer is no, regardless of what the "he owes you $2,000" crowd here may think.
I am not implying that you are a swindler or a crook. Rather I am just trying to put into reality what you are entitled to recover. Lets start with what your cost was. That might be a clue to what it is worth and what your loss is. Of course, as someone else mentioned, what you are "entitled" to recover means little if you have no means of getting the money from the other guy.
CG
1) Is there proof that it was given to a post office and not just handled online where it may not have been handed to a USPS employee yet (or even put in the mailbox, or a dropbox, etc)?
2) Is the buyer a forum member?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Do you have a right to be angry. Yes. Are you entitled to $2,000? Not necessarily. You are entitled to the fair market value of the coin, which might be less than $2,000, or perhaps more than $2,000. Sorry to sound like a contrarian, but despite all of the happy talk here that is what you are entitled to recover from the would be buyer. Just because you wanted $2,000 for it does not mean that that is what it is worth or what your loss is.
Lets also consider why the provable value is what you are entitled to receive and not the asking price. Suppose someone acquires a harshly cleaned or whizzed Morgan for $35 and artificially tones it. He then lists it for sale for $2,000. A potential buyer receives it on approval and upon inspection sees it for what it is --something worth melt. The prospective buyer is ticked off and returns it, and insures it for $300 which is way more than it is really worth. If it is lost in the mail is the seller (who if he had it listed on ebay everyone here would be piling on and calling him a swindler and crook) entitled to $2,000? The answer is no, regardless of what the "he owes you $2,000" crowd here may think.
I am not implying that you are a swindler or a crook. Rather I am just trying to put into reality what you are entitled to recover. Lets start with what your cost was. That might be a clue to what it is worth and what your loss is. Of course, as someone else mentioned, what you are "entitled" to recover means little if you have no means of getting the money from the other guy.
CG >>
sorry but your logic has no play into this whole scenario whatsoever. Leads me to believe you did not read anything in this thread. Obviously if 3-4 people have already ASKED to purchase the coin, a few being in this thread for $1500 then my asking price of $2000 wasnt absurd.
<< <i>I'm on the OP's side on this, but I still haven't seen a reply where I have asked 2 questions:
1) Is there proof that it was given to a post office and not just handled online where it may not have been handed to a USPS employee yet (or even put in the mailbox, or a dropbox, etc)?
2) Is the buyer a forum member? >>
he gave me a tracking number that isnt even trackable online. and yes he is a forum member
CG
<< <i>Cool it man. I never said that your price was absured. I said that a seller's asking price does not fix the fair value of a lost coin. And you are correct that I did not read all 170 posts in this thread but that is of no significance. Your purchase price was less than $2,000 and may be indicative that your loss is $1,500 and not $2,000. But go on beliving the happy talk guys if that makes you happy.
CG >>
the toned coin market has no fair value for a coin. two of the same coins, same date, same grade could be thousands apart because of toning.
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<< <i>
<< <i>I'm on the OP's side on this, but I still haven't seen a reply where I have asked 2 questions:
1) Is there proof that it was given to a post office and not just handled online where it may not have been handed to a USPS employee yet (or even put in the mailbox, or a dropbox, etc)?
2) Is the buyer a forum member? >>
he gave me a tracking number that isnt even trackable online. and yes he is a forum member >>
Holy CHIT! A member here, why didn't you state that in the beginning, I thought he was an unknown via ebay....WoW I am shocked to say the least!
The member needs to make you whole NOW! If the usps reimburses him, fine he keeps the stupid $300 that he ridiculously insured it for. But he has to make you whole now, this is now unacceptable imho! Edited to add, he needs to pay you $1800 immediately, since he paid 10% down. >>
well just PMed the buyer letting him know he just bought a $2000 peace dollar. Will let you guys know what he says in the AM. off to bed!
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<< <i>Still hoping the coin shows up... How long has it been M.I.A.
it was suppose to show up either friday or yesterday i was told. It still hasnt shown up
Am I the only one that finds this funny?
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<< <i>
<< <i>Still hoping the coin shows up... How long has it been M.I.A.
it was suppose to show up either friday or yesterday i was told. It still hasnt shown up
Am I the only one that finds this funny?
Considering it's USPS it is amusing , Monday morning will tell it's own story.I can't help but notice though having read the thread nowhere is blame aportioned to the USPS who by account have it or misplaced it , the whole thread seems to be about pushing a highly unlikely 2k sale through.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Still hoping the coin shows up... How long has it been M.I.A.
it was suppose to show up either friday or yesterday i was told. It still hasnt shown up
Am I the only one that finds this funny?
Considering it's USPS it is amusing , Monday morning will tell it's own story.I can't help but notice though having read the thread nowhere is blame aportioned to the USPS who by account have it or misplaced it , the whole thread seems to be about pushing a highly unlikely 2k sale through. >>
USPS is at fault no doubt about that. None of this would of happened if he insured it for the right amount. I could care less if the $2000 sale went through as it would of just been sold a few days later for $1500.
<< <i>I'm surprised USPS entertained this call for more than 3 seconds considering its currently 1 day late. >>
what is so hard for some people to understand. ITS NOT LATE! It is MISSING! they are to totally different things.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm on the OP's side on this, but I still haven't seen a reply where I have asked 2 questions:
1) Is there proof that it was given to a post office and not just handled online where it may not have been handed to a USPS employee yet (or even put in the mailbox, or a dropbox, etc)?
2) Is the buyer a forum member? >>
he gave me a tracking number that isnt even trackable online. and yes he is a forum member >>
He could have transposed numbers or just typed it wrong....
If he did it online, he could find his copy and double check the number.
If he took it to a post office branch, he could find his receipt and check the number.
I had a hunch it was a forum member....over the years, having seen too many of these types of threads, one starts getting a sixth sense; which is why I asked a few times for that. Thank you for the answer.
Given the coin and amount you valued it at, I would even go out on a limb and say it was likely an "established" member and not just a new person....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm on the OP's side on this, but I still haven't seen a reply where I have asked 2 questions:
1) Is there proof that it was given to a post office and not just handled online where it may not have been handed to a USPS employee yet (or even put in the mailbox, or a dropbox, etc)?
2) Is the buyer a forum member? >>
he gave me a tracking number that isnt even trackable online. and yes he is a forum member >>
He could have transposed numbers or just typed it wrong....
If he did it online, he could find his copy and double check the number.
If he took it to a post office branch, he could find his receipt and check the number.
I had a hunch it was a forum member....over the years, having seen too many of these types of threads, one starts getting a sixth sense; which is why I asked a few times for that. Thank you for the answer.
Given the coin and amount you valued it at, I would even go out on a limb and say it was likely an "established" member and not just a new person.... >>
A good point about entering the number wrong Ron , i did it just recently to multiple items , each had one 0 missing and sure as green apples the packages were slow and people complained about non working tracking numbers.It was actually a customer who figured out why on arrival of his.
<< <i>well just PMed the buyer letting him know he just bought a $2000 peace dollar. Will let you guys know what he says in the AM. off to bed! >>
AnkurJ ?
Just kiddin... all in good fun.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>
I had a hunch it was a forum member....over the years, having seen too many of these types of threads, one starts getting a sixth sense; which is why I asked a few times for that. Thank you for the answer.
Given the coin and amount you valued it at, I would even go out on a limb and say it was likely an "established" member and not just a new person.... >>
A good point about entering the number wrong Ron , i did it just recently to multiple items , each had one 0 missing and sure as green apples the packages were slow and people complained about non working tracking numbers.It was actually a customer who figured out why on arrival of his. >>
I have to deal with problems at work every day...it's my job. So, I try to take a look at all the info given, what may be missing for info, and what could have happened....then I try to eliminate potential problems/excuses.
In this case, it is probably easier for me to try to think of possibilities like this because I don't know who the other party is and I don't have a pony in this show on either side...I can be more rational
I hope it is just a misunderstanding on the number and that the coin shows up asap.....still doesn't excuse the buyer for purposefully underinsuring like he did......no matter what HE thought the coin was worth, if it was out on approval for $2000, then it should have gone back that way (or at least registered). Sad, but certainly not a potential buyer I would want to deal with and I wish I knew who it was.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm surprised USPS entertained this call for more than 3 seconds considering its currently 1 day late. >>
what is so hard for some people to understand. ITS NOT LATE! It is MISSING! they are to totally different things.
I need to understand you, can you punch in the usps tracking number provided to you by our unfamous member and if so what doe sit say? >>
Delivery status information is not available for your item via this web site.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
I had a hunch it was a forum member....over the years, having seen too many of these types of threads, one starts getting a sixth sense; which is why I asked a few times for that. Thank you for the answer.
Given the coin and amount you valued it at, I would even go out on a limb and say it was likely an "established" member and not just a new person.... >>
A good point about entering the number wrong Ron , i did it just recently to multiple items , each had one 0 missing and sure as green apples the packages were slow and people complained about non working tracking numbers.It was actually a customer who figured out why on arrival of his. >>
I have to deal with problems at work every day...it's my job. So, I try to take a look at all the info given, what may be missing for info, and what could have happened....then I try to eliminate potential problems/excuses.
In this case, it is probably easier for me to try to think of possibilities like this because I don't know who the other party is and I don't have a pony in this show on either side...I can be more rational
I hope it is just a misunderstanding on the number and that the coin shows up asap.....still doesn't excuse the buyer for purposefully underinsuring like he did......no matter what HE thought the coin was worth, if it was out on approval for $2000, then it should have gone back that way (or at least registered). Sad, but certainly not a potential buyer I would want to deal with and I wish I knew who it was. >>
believe me if this is not resolved with either my coin returned to me or the money, he will be outed here and on other coin sites as well.