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eBay Theft Case. Can you help?
RedHerring
Posts: 2,077 ✭
Long story short: The auction linked below has been stolen by the buyer. (I am not the seller, it's my brother)
100oz Ag bar
The buyer wanted to pay by check and the check bounced after shipment. The bar has been delivered to Canada (a business address).
What are his options? Any advice appreciated. Thank You.
100oz Ag bar
The buyer wanted to pay by check and the check bounced after shipment. The bar has been delivered to Canada (a business address).
What are his options? Any advice appreciated. Thank You.
0
Comments
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
US Post Office
Bank of America
eBay
Federal Government (Internet Fraud)
York Police - Canada
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
A shame...really!
Bon Chance
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
"I listed the Royal Canadian Mint 100 oz silver bar on eBay on August 15th. On 8/17, I was contacted by d_belvina12 asking if I would accept a "bank check". I responded that I would. A few days later, he asked if I would end the auction early and sell to him but I said this was against my policy. On 8/22, the auction ended but was won by a different bidder. However, this bidder contacted me and stated they never placed a bid and didn't know how their account was used (I now wonder if they were working with d_belvina12 in the scheme). d_belvina12 contacted me and said he missed the end of the auction but would offer me $200 more than the winning bid. I send him a second chance offer, which he accepted.
On 8/25, I received a check for $4630 from Parkway Woodworks in Markham, ON Canada. I deposited it and the funds showed available in my checking account the following day. I process the USPS Express Mail package with insurance and shipped it on 8/26. During the following week, I was contacted my a fellow ebay seller (fairtraderz) who asked if I had any issues with my sell to d_belvina12. fairtraderz had sold a $10K auction to the same buyer and was concerned. At that point, everything seemed fine. The next day, I received an alert from my bank stated the funds were now on hold. I immediately checked the tracking number and the bar was delivered the same day. I went to the bank and opened a case. I called the York Regional Police in Canada and contacted the Canada Trust Bank. The bank informed me that Parkway Woodworks was a legitimate company but the checks used were stolen and the account was now closed. The bank said they had received several calls from US auction customers with the same issue.
I started two cases with eBay (fraud and unpaid auction) and an Internet Fraud case with the US government, as well as a case with the US Post Office."
your brother should have waited on shipping for at least 10 days.
Not a rookie mistake but a big mistake nonetheless.
not in this day and age.
step 1: always start by calling the bank it's drawn on to see if it is real.
step 2: if they are nice and cooperative, wait until the thing clears and call the same bank back to see if it has cleared there.(some banks will do this, some won't. a nice demeanor and a good plea out of fear will assist in getting some to help you out.)
good luck.
Sucks,
bob
How do you get that info?
I hope it works out but there were a lot of red flags if you ask me. My bank does not place holds on checks i deposit but i am on the hook down the road if something goes wrong. It is hard to get good info from a bank IMO but there is no way they could have cleared that check that fast.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=d_belvina12&completed=1&all=0&rows=50&sort=1&_rdc=1
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Looks like this crook nailed a bunch of sellers:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=d_belvina12&completed=1&all=0&rows=50&sort=1&_rdc=1
Russ, NCNE >>
and one positive feedback left was:
Awesome eBayer here! Great communication, quick payment, thanks for your bid! Seller: Member id pointfivezero ( Feedback Score Of 355) Aug-27-11 12:00
¡Follow-up by pointfivezero (Sep-02-11 20:22):
The buyer's check has been returned with insufficient funds. Buyers beware!
on a $4500 auction.
This is why I never leave immediate feedback. Both sides of the deal have to go through.
Gold dollars auction.
<< <i>On 8/22, the auction ended but was won by a different bidder. However, this bidder contacted me and stated they never placed a bid and didn't know how their account was used (I now wonder if they were working with d_belvina12 in the scheme). >>
ebay ID of this different bidder? Let's flush them all out.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>
<< <i>On 8/22, the auction ended but was won by a different bidder. However, this bidder contacted me and stated they never placed a bid and didn't know how their account was used (I now wonder if they were working with d_belvina12 in the scheme). >>
ebay ID of this different bidder? Let's flush them all out. >>
If the coin has a serial number and you can prove ownership and theft I would think you would have a pretty good case with paypal.
Make sure you file a police report!!!
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
The seller with the Prez Buck bars would be eager to unload them at that price so he was probably eager to take a check for $4500.
Not enough info to see how he sucked Fairdraderz in but it sounds like it must have been a similar deal with a $10K check.
On the silver bar he already asked if a check was OK so he wanted to keep that deal open and probably used the second bidder to bid and back out. Then he offered the $200 extra on top of the price of the 100 Oz bar to add motivation plus he already created the incentive by knowing that the seller would need to mess with re-listing or take the extra $200 and the check he already said was OK.
It was a big risk to take a check from out of the country (or even in the country).
Seeing it show up in the account a day later did not mean it was cleared, it only meant it was scanned in at the bank where it was deposited. Even if he waited longer to ship there was still a big risk of the check being cancelled and not much recourse.
If the buyer was legit the seller could have asked for a money order and cashed it before shipping the bar, that was the only safe route without using paypal and waiting for the "ok to ship".
I feel bad for the seller, I think it was a very painful lesson.
Good luck with getting some recourse.
<< <i>What am i missing here ? I don't see where this buyer has nailed any other seller ? Quite the reverse apparantly with some nice feedback there.The one revised feedback is the OP's brother if i'm reading things correctly. >>
All that means is that either a) The other sellers decided not to post follow up feedback, or b) They haven't yet been notified of the bounced checks.
Russ, NCNE
They backed out.
Dear pointfivezero,
DEAR SELLER i need to let you know we are not the persons that orderd this silver from you .... i was looking on yesterdays email and i came upon a email from ebay saying that my bids on ebay were comfirmed and me and my husband were shocked to see this ,, we dont have that kind of money to be ordering such a valueble thing like that .. and we dont know who in the world that can have accses to our ebay account so please discard this order that we did NOT PLACED to you ...Thank you for the understanding of our situeation,, please respond .. thank u again dnc hader
- dnchader
Most online banking now provides scans of cancelled checks when they clear an account.
Ask the buyer to email you a copy of the scanned check once it clears their bank.
This a supplemental way of authenticating that the online user (buyer) is the bank account holder (since they must have credentials for online banking for the account) as well as confirming the check has cleared the issuing bank.
Otherwise wait a minimum of 5 business days. 10 would be even better.
This has served me well with some BST transactions where a check payment was involved.
Good luck to OP.
A 200 dollar bonus should have been the first clue that things were going south.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>Here's the e-mail from the winner:
Dear pointfivezero,
DEAR SELLER i need to let you know we are not the persons that orderd this silver from you .... i was looking on yesterdays email and i came upon a email from ebay saying that my bids on ebay were comfirmed and me and my husband were shocked to see this ,, we dont have that kind of money to be ordering such a valueble thing like that .. and we dont know who in the world that can have accses to our ebay account so please discard this order that we did NOT PLACED to you ...Thank you for the understanding of our situeation,, please respond .. thank u again dnc hader
- dnchader >>
looks like the thief hijacked the first ebay account and used it to his advantage. May have even hijacked the second account. New approach - thief was able to complete the rip-off without using paypal. Paypal is the major roadblock in completing an ebay rip-off. Only thing now that leads to the thief is a mailing address. The thieves are getting better!
Lesson to all - don't let the joy of avoiding paypal fees cloud your judgement.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
Too bad this was a very costly lesson.
<< <i>Your brother is out of luck on this one and will have to absorb the loss. The only thing I can offer is common sense advice that everyone has already offered...only sell to U.S. residents, only accept paypal as a form of ebay payment, in a business transaction with a complete stranger; don't trust anyone, and anytime something is too good to be true; then it usually is...
Too bad this was a very costly lesson. >>
Well put. A very expensive lesson was learned.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Edited to correct spelling
Your chances of recovery at this point are slim to none. Paypal is the only means of enforcement these days, assuming they agree with you. The RCMP probably have much bigger fish to fry than the loss of a 100 oz bar. I tend to think that the govt feels if you can afford to be selling 100 oz bars on the side, then you can afford the occasional loss as well. Pretty much sums up how they treated my case. They probably assume sellers can simply file insurance claims to cover their losses.
roadrunner
Thanks to my brother (Red Herring) for posting my tale of woe and thanks to all for the good feedback and comments. Frankly, I have been a bit embarrassed to post. In well over 1000 online auction transactions, this is the second time I have been burned. Unfortunately, both have been large transactions (over $1k each). It made for a rather rough weekend.
First, I have no illusions in terms of recovering the bar or any funds. My last remaining hope is to be able to write the loss off on my income taxes (Form 4684). My efforts are focused on retribution and prosecution now. We have a few tricks up our collective sleeves but I cannot elaborate at this point. Hopefully, I will be able to start a more positive thread in the future.
My wife has always warned me about my tendency to ship quickly but until now, it has never backfired on me. I did naively believe the funds were available when I checked my online statement the following morning. I thought somehow in this electronic age, Bank of America was able to verify the funds. I was assured by the local Bank VP this is not the case. The funds were only released based on "my good standing" with the bank. I saw all the same warning signs everyone has mentioned in their posts. I knew he had accumulated ten insignificant transactions to build his feedback score. I knew the check was risky (I got greedy). I knew the "over asking" price was a red flag. What finally convinced me to ship was the positive feedback he had received on a $10K transaction. I thought, "OK, he is legitimate." Painful lesson learned.
I still prefer to believe in the goodness of human nature. I won't let one bad apple change my perspective. I will, however, check for worms in all future transactions.
Thanks again,
Tim
<< <i>Long story short: The auction linked below has been stolen by the buyer. (I am not the seller, it's my brother)
100oz Ag bar
The buyer wanted to pay by check and the check bounced after shipment. The bar has been delivered to Canada (a business address).
What are his options? Any advice appreciated. Thank You. >>
Your "brother" stated in the listing the following:
On Aug-19-11 at 09:24:15 PDT, seller added the following information: Update - Thanks to all for the questions and interest in my auction. At this time, I am only accepting bids from United States customers (Alaska and Hawaii OK). Please only bid if your ship to address is in the United States. Thank you! Tim
What happened with that plan of only shipping to a U.S. address only?
It seems to me that when the buyer's address came up as Canada, and was paying with a check instead of PayPal, red flags should have been waiving in your "brother's" head.
I don't see what eBay or PayPal can do as your "brother" accepted a personal check from the buyer instead of insisting the buyer use PayPal.
It amazes me how people get themselves into a mess, such as this, and then expect agencies to get them out the mess they created.
Unbelievable!
He didn't create the mess. The thief did. No need to be an idiot. He knows where he went wrong in this transaction.
-Keith
<< <i>Um, that's what the agencies exist for, that's why we pay their salaries, to enforce the laws of the land.
He didn't create the mess. The thief did. No need to be an idiot. He knows where he went wrong in this transaction.
-Keith >>
He didn't create the mess?
Let's test your opinion on this shall we:
Seller states only U.S. bids and ship only to U.S. address; however, accepts a bid from outside the U.S. and ships his item to a Canadian address.
Seller accepts a form of payment outside the protection of eBay and PayPal, i.e. a check from a bank outside the U.S.
The only idiot is the seller!
Thanks for the encourgement. You are a winner in my book.
Didn't your mama teach you that if you don't have anything nice to say...
-Keith
<< <i>I wish you could block people on these boards.
Didn't your mama teach you that if you don't have anything nice to say...
-Keith >>
blah blah............blahblahblah!
<< <i>
<< <i>I wish you could block people on these boards.
Didn't your mama teach you that if you don't have anything nice to say...
-Keith >>
blah blah............blahblahblah! >>
Isn't there an age requirement to be a member of the forum? I guess not.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
might take some of the hit if you complain to them enough. Try it at your bank too.
If you have any clout at your bank, try to get them to take some of the hit.
My wife manages a bank and some of the stories she tells me you won't believe.
(I understand it's not you) just using 'you'
As for the other comments, my reluctance to post has now been confirmed. I do feel like a total idiot, it is just good to have it confirmed on a public forum.
Tim
It's unfortunate some newbies don't understand that in running a business there will always be temptation that a deal almost seems too good.
And most of them will turn out to be just good deals.
roadrunner
<< <i>Thanks for the suggestion....I do plan on pursuing the open case with the Bank after I get the expected news.
As for the other comments, my reluctance to post has now been confirmed. I do feel like a total idiot, it is just good to have it confirmed on a public forum.
Tim >>
Just ignore the troll.
Russ, NCNE