How would you respond to this ebayer who appears to have buyers remorse?

mrcoin3 · September 2, 2011 7:51AM

xxxxxxxxx sent a message about 1883-CC GSA dollar nicer than most- with box & COA-LQQK #270804904225

I received this coin the other day. After studying it, it's just not nearly as nice as I expected from the description. It has more than just light marks on the cheek. And it looks like a 63 to me. I send coins to NGC a lot and I would be surprised if it made 64. It's just to much money for the quality of the coin. I would like to return it. Please reply.

Respectfully,

CXXXX

auction number is 270804904225

I clearly stated no returns in the auction. Todd from this board took the photos. I think he thought he was buying a coin that would grade MS65 for MS64 money.

PerryHall · September 2, 2011 7:57AM

It depends on how badly you want to avoid negative feedback.

Alltheabove76 · September 2, 2011 8:09AM

Your pics are a mess on that auction.

mrcoin3 · September 2, 2011 8:13AM

Click on the photo and it will enlarge. Or are you saying Todd takes bad photos?

RYK · September 2, 2011 8:15AM

From the OP: I think he thought he was buying a coin that would grade MS65 for MS64 money.

From the listing:

While at the recent ANA show last week we saw many NGC pieces graded MS64 that had many more marks than this beauty... We'll start the bidding at MS 64 ask money with no reserve.

I wonder where he got that idea!

MsMorrisine · September 2, 2011 8:17AM

you used a smaller picture for the obverse and a larger picture for the reverse.

plus you show the GSA pack in a larger picture than the obverse of the coin.

then you state:
While at the recent ANA show last week we saw many NGC pieces graded MS64 that had many more marks than this beauty.

It seems like you were hinting at a NGC MS65

MsMorrisine · September 2, 2011 8:18AM

<< Click on the photo and it will enlarge. Or are you saying Todd takes bad photos? >>

it's the different sizes.

and when I clicked, I didn't get a larger version. I got the same version with the same small size.

ColonialCoinUnion · September 2, 2011 8:19AM

<< Click on the photo and it will enlarge. Or are you saying Todd takes bad photos? >>

The photos look extremely clear to me - certainly better than what you find in most Ebay listings - but your description created the expectation of a 64+ coin, an opinion with which the buyer may honestly not agree.

mrcoin3 · September 2, 2011 8:25AM

The coin would grade 64 for sure all day long.
He could have bought it by simply bidding $225, the starting bid. He chose to use buy it now near the end of the sale for $260. Now he claims the coin is a 63.
I wonder what eBay will say when he complains to them as I feel he will do so.

Justacommeman · September 2, 2011 8:31AM

Return it and live to fight another day. Your description opened a can of worms I regret to say. MJ

llafoe · September 2, 2011 8:32AM

<< 

<< ............
I wonder what eBay will say when he complains to them as I feel he will do so. >>

Ebay will say "return his $$$$$"

>>

... and he will leave you a negative.

TheCoinGeezer · September 2, 2011 8:37AM

Do yourself a favor and allow the return. Your language in the auction was designed to mislead, IMO.

mrcoin3 · September 2, 2011 8:38AM

<< Just return it. Your description did not meet the buyers expectations. >>

Wow, now descriptions must meet all buyers "expectations"? I never knew that.

khayse · September 2, 2011 8:38AM

no returns = no returns. Unless the picture you posted is not the picture of the coin, I say "so sorry buyer". This is not an approval service.

-Keith

derryb · September 2, 2011 8:49AM

take the return and learn (description wording) from the experience.

roadrunner · September 2, 2011 8:50AM

<< Return it and live to fight another day. Your description opened a can of worms I regret to say. MJ >>

Agreed. Had you just called it a BU or choice BU GSA and left it at that you'd be fine. But inserting descriptions, regardless of how well intentioned create shades of
guarantees based on how they are interpreted. I know I'd be ticked off if I got a coin described as nicer than most 64's and thought it was just a 63. Accept the
return and move on. While I would personally refund the guy's postage each way, that's your call. Either would be fair. The customer is always right when you
embellish and then fail to deliver in their mind.

roadrunner

Russ · September 2, 2011 8:59AM

<< It depends on how badly you want to avoid negative feedback. >>

And a SNAD claim.

Russ, NCNE

Barndog · September 2, 2011 9:01AM

return it and use fewer or zero words when describing your coins. Take good photos and let the buyers decide.

TheCoinGeezer · September 2, 2011 9:06AM

<< return it and use fewer or zero words when describing your coins. Take good photos and let the buyers decide. >>

steveben · September 2, 2011 9:33AM

satisfy the customer.

thisnamztaken · September 2, 2011 9:47AM

<< Wow, now descriptions must meet all buyers "expectations"? I never knew that. >>

Unfortunately, eBay has given all the advantages (and then some) to the buyer over the last couple of years. Sellers are pretty much at the mercy of even goofy and/or unreasonable buyers nowadays. I'd just return it and then block him.

mrcoin3 · September 2, 2011 9:52AM

<< satisfy the customer. >>

Unfortunately I think the only thing that would have satisfied him was if he felt NGC would grade it a MS65.

RYK · September 2, 2011 10:04AM

<< 

<< satisfy the customer. >>

Unfortunately I think the only thing that would have satisfied him was if he felt NGC would grade it a MS65. >>

Your lofty description elevated expectations. Blame yourself, not the buyer.

PerryHall · September 2, 2011 10:06AM

This is a perfect example of self serving hype backfiring on a seller. Show good pics and let the buyer reach his own conclusions concern the coin.

airplanenut · September 2, 2011 10:10AM

I've got to side with the buyer here. True, I likely wouldn't have purchased the coin as described since I can't see the obverse photos well and that is what carries the grade, but that's beside the point. The description clearly says 64 or better, and true or not, that gave the buyer something to claim was incorrect. I'm very careful when I apply grades to raw coins to ensure I don't work myself into a trap. If you relist, at the very least show a decent size picture of the obverse.

19Lyds · September 2, 2011 10:21AM

<< Just return it. Your description did not meet the buyers expectations. >>

I agree. Put it up again but give a better obverse picture.

roadrunner · September 2, 2011 10:22AM

I looked at the obv photo blown up 4X and would say the coin could just as easily come back 64 or 63. No doubt if you posted this here you'd get some folks saying MS63.

Called up some other 83-CC's going off and found an NGC MS64 GSA pack ending in <1 hr going for $232. It appears to be cleaner than this coin.

roadrunner

robertpr · September 2, 2011 10:35AM

In addition to what everybody else has said, any seller that uses "LQQK" in the auction, especially in the title but could be anywhere, deserves a public lynching.

I'm joking, of course. Or am I?

AUandAG · September 2, 2011 10:46AM

I'm not going to look at your auction or it's description. I'll just comment that if your are getting
Retail for a coin then you need to accept returns. Period.

bob

Raufus · September 2, 2011 10:49AM

I would return it, no question. The buyer sounds honest in what he wrote and was very respectful. I've accepted returns in my "no return" auctions from nut job "buyers" much less a respectful buyer like this. After 10 years selling on Ebay I think that maintaining my 100% pos. FB w/all 5 star DSRs is far more valuable than the hassle of a return.

mrpotatoheadd · September 2, 2011 10:52AM

Hyping a coin like that ("better than most GSA offerings" and all the rest) + a "no returns" policy is a recipe for disaster.

CoinMiner1 · September 2, 2011 11:02AM

At the risk of appeasing feedback terrorists, we would ask what would make them happy. i.e. how much $ do they want back via paypal.

That may very well save you the hassle/risk/cost of shipping the coin back, re-listing, and shipping again.

Depends how you value your time, that is the metric we use.

Best

ColonialCoinUnion · September 2, 2011 11:07AM

The responses in this thread are about as consistent as the responses to any questions ever asked in the forum by anybody about anything.

SnakeDoctor · September 2, 2011 11:09AM

You said no returns. I would stick to my description. If he files a snad, and you get a neg, so be it. At least you stuck to your word.

astrorat · September 2, 2011 11:14AM

<< no returns = no returns. Unless the picture you posted is not the picture of the coin, I say "so sorry buyer". This is not an approval service.

-Keith >>

Not on eBay. You can say "so sorry buyer" and the buyer will say "thank you for the refund, including shipping, so sorry about the neg I have to leave." Just file an SNAD, return the item, and wait for the refund.

For good or bad, buyers know that they can use eBay as an approval service, at least for a short while. eBay's ruthless protection of buyers leaves sellers in an awful position. Sellers can state in big red letters in four languages that returns are not allowed ... and it makes no difference.

On the flip side, the policy does protect legitimate buyers from "no return" sales where the listing and/or images are misleading. And there are enough bad sellers out there that the SNAD option makes sense at times for the honest buyer.

astrorat · September 2, 2011 11:17AM

<< You said no returns. I would stick to my description. If he files a snad, and you get a neg, so be it. At least you stuck to your word. >>

It kinda doesn't work that way. eBay is going to side with the buyer and return their money including shipping. You do know that eBay and PayPal are sorta connected, right?

mrpotatoheadd · September 2, 2011 11:27AM

<< You said no returns. I would stick to my description. >>

If the coin was listed without all the buildup, I'd agree. But when a seller goes to the trouble of saying something like this:

"better than most GSA offerings"

and

"While at the recent ANA show last week we saw many NGC pieces graded MS64 that had many more marks than this beauty."

a buyer could reasonably expect to get a coin that's nicer than the average MS64 piece. If it turns out the coin isn't that nice, then it really isn't as described, is it? I know there's not a well defined line here for making such a determination (item not as described), but the number of posts so far taking that side lead me to believe this listing isn't really all that close to the line anyway.

AMRC · September 2, 2011 11:28AM

If you are going to grade raw coins then you need to stand behind that grade just like NGC or PCGS. Ironically you could have got about the same money without mentioning ANY grade. Also the whole raw GSA market on eBay is a fishing expedition. People are all watching the raw stuff looking for coins they can buy at common grade prices but will come in at a 64 or better. I am willing to bet that raw GSA are the most returned coin on eBay.

mrpotatoheadd · September 2, 2011 11:32AM

<< Ironically you could have got about the same money without mentioning ANY grade. >>

This is the downside for bidders of returning coins in such situations. What you're doing is encouraging sellers to list coins with minimal to no descriptions- just pictures.

howards · September 2, 2011 1:05PM

Here's what eBay says about returns:

------------
You're required to specify if items can be returned and under what conditions.

If returns are accepted, you must specify:

The time period in which a buyer must notify you about a return

How the refund is issued

Who pays for return shipping

The restocking fee, if any

Even if you specify that you don't accept returns, a buyer may be able to open an eBay Buyer Protection case for eligible items if the buyer didn't receive an item or the item doesn't match the listing description. It's important that you reply quickly. You have 7 days to respond to a buyer's case, or eBay may review the case and make a final decision. Keep in mind that your seller status (including PowerSeller and Top-rated seller status) and search visibility may be affected by the number of open cases and closed cases without seller resolution. Learn more about Resolution Center cases that might affect your selling status.
---------------------

In effect, eBay disallows a no-return policy due to the Buyer Protection. Your choices are to voluntarily satisfy this seller or wait until eBay makes you do it.

CoinCrazyPA · September 2, 2011 1:38PM

<< Do yourself a favor and allow the return. Your language in the auction was designed to mislead, IMO. >>

+1

Bochiman · September 2, 2011 2:41PM

Lot of good advice in this thread.....too bad it appears to be being attacked or ignored

pennyannie · September 2, 2011 3:20PM

You should pay the guys return postage also. You gave the illusion this was a super coin and that you are an expert. You went looking to fleece a buyer IMO. You have the coin in hand and he can rely on your description and pictures. Not everyone has high def monitors with huge screens to study the auctions.

Ebay should do away with the no return option on most coin listings except bullion. I have sold 1000's of items over the years with just a handful of returns using so so pictures. Most of the time the item sold for more the next time around, but selling turds as roses will always back fire.

TwoSides2aCoin · September 2, 2011 3:30PM

The buyer has the edge and eBay will always side with the buyer. I know from experience. Take the coin back and don't sell it on eBay like that. Start it at a dollar and PM me. I'll try to win it at 15% back of grey sheet.

rec78 · September 2, 2011 4:07PM

First of all the pix are bad except for the reverse big picture-This coin is somewhere between 63 and 64 imo and could grade either way on any given day--But then I cannot see the obverse clearly enough. Why did you not show a big picture of the obverse also?
I could go either way on this one-The buyer by the same token should not have taken the chance-But apparently knows ebays rules and took a chance. Hassle and waste of time -yes. But a lesson should be learned here. I have seen too many auctions like this with the best side of the coin put in better perspective and the lesser side a poorer photo-Then the buyer is aggrieved and has a right to be so. Still even said all that - caveat emptor.

<< f you are going to grade raw coins then you need to stand behind that grade just like NGC or PCGS. Ironically you could have got about the same money without mentioning ANY grade. Also the whole raw GSA market on eBay is a fishing expedition. People are all watching the raw stuff looking for coins they can buy at common grade prices but will come in at a 64 or better. I am willing to bet that raw GSA are the most returned coin on eBay. >>

MikeInFL · September 2, 2011 5:03PM

" How would you respond to this ebayer who appears to have buyers remorse?"

I would take the return because I want people who buy from me to be satisfied with their purchases.

I also think you oversold the coin in your auction.

gsa1fan · September 2, 2011 8:43PM

<< " How would you respond to this ebayer who appears to have buyers remorse?"

I would take the return because I want people who buy from me to be satisfied with their purchases.

I also think you oversold the coin in your auction. >>

+1

I say, refund his $$ you mislead & buyer knows his GSA's .

Groiny · September 2, 2011 11:14PM

hey Bulldog -

you sure got an earful with your post here .............

maybe next time just return the fellers money , don't sugar coat your listings , and for goodness sakes :

don't bring up this question again here on the boards unless you want to be smacked around some more

TheBigB · September 2, 2011 11:51PM

I drop the numerical grading when selling raw coins. I would have probably referred to it as BU or Choice BU depending.

RYK · September 3, 2011 2:51AM

How would you respond to this ebayer who appears to have buyers remorse?

Saying that it is "buyer's remorse" implies that the buyer is to blame. Most do not see it that way.

TwoSides2aCoin · September 3, 2011 2:58AM

These are reasonable men and while I can understand your sentiment, the truth is: It's seller's regret more than buyer's remorse.
A TOUGH LESSON IN THE WORLD OF GRADING COINS BY YOURSELF ON EbAY. SEE BONGO FOR DETAILS

How would you respond to this ebayer who appears to have buyers remorse?

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